SPOILERS: Shadowlands Lore Thread

[Darknessvamp]

So I had a thought, did I just gloss over something being done about it or is there still a tear between the sky over Icecrown Citadel linking straight to the Maw? And if it is still there then why is it just ignored? Shouldn't the Jailer be going for broke through it with his armies if his goal is Azeroth considering it's not sealed off like the Maw is supposed to be from the rest of the Shadowlands? We know his forces can go through, that's how this expansion began after all. Or do you think it's going to end up being another "Sargeras' blade" and just ignored despite it being a glaring issue?

[Super Dickmann]

So I had a thought, did I just gloss over something being done about it or is there still a tear between the sky over Icecrown Citadel linking straight to the Maw? And if it is still there then why is it just ignored? Shouldn't the Jailer be going for broke through it with his armies if his goal is Azeroth considering it's not sealed off like the Maw is supposed to be from the rest of the Shadowlands? We know his forces can go through, that's how this expansion began after all. Or do you think it's going to end up being another "Sargeras' blade" and just ignored despite it being a glaring issue?

It's one way. You can go into the Maw with it, but you can't get out and neither can he. The only Maw forces we see come out of it are kyrians, which are also the only Mawsworn we see out of there in general with the exception of KT's experiments.

[Darknessvamp]

It's one way. You can go into the Maw with it, but you can't get out and neither can he. The only Maw forces we see come out of it are kyrians, which are also the only Mawsworn we see out of there in general with the exception of KT's experiments.

I was aware the player can't return through it but I thought the suggestion was that Bolvar would be unable to provide a "path" back through using the Helmet of Domination. I mean I don't know the exact logic or reasoning behind it but paths can be established is what we're told. Additionally do we actually know he can't go through the tear with his forces, as in is this outright stated, or is it he doesn't actually want to go through? All we get explicitly told is nothing escapes the Maw yet we pop in and out via an artifact present there for who knows how long and Mawsworn Kyrian can just fly out whenever. I know it might sound ridiculous but what is stopping them from having them Kyrian grab their army and bombing Icecrown with Mawsworn before a flock of them lifts the Jailer through?

[Super Dickmann]

I was aware the player can't return through it but I thought the suggestion was that Bolvar would be unable to provide a "path" back through using the Helmet of Domination. I mean I don't know the exact logic or reasoning behind it but paths can be established is what we're told. Additionally do we actually know he can't go through the tear with his forces, as in is this outright stated, or is it he doesn't actually want to go through? All we get explicitly told is nothing escapes the Maw yet we pop in and out via an artifact present there for who knows how long and Mawsworn Kyrian can just fly out whenever. I know it might sound ridiculous but what is stopping them from having them Kyrian grab their army and bombing Icecrown with Mawsworn before a flock of them lifts the Jailer through?

The Jailer himself is still trapped there. At the end of the Ardenweald quest, the Winter Queen mentions that the giant acorn thing at the center is the lock on his prison and the Ardenweald anima reserves are split between it and trying to keep the realm going. His Kyrian can move other people into the Maw, but they can't bring their own forces out, except themselves. So we can use the artifact because we're the main characters and the Kyrians can do it because crossing the realm between life and death is their whole thing, but the standard Mawsworn can't do it and the Jailer himself can't either. Hence why KT is trying to overcome this in the House of Rituals.

The Bolvar helm thing is vague and unintentionally confusing, but from what I can get because he wore the helm for so long he can use it to navigate into the Maw by connecting to the Jailer's knowledge of the place. This has nothing to do with the Maw being locked away itself and it's also two way, hence why the quests are timegated.

[Vakir]

This is my likeliest bet as well. After the fade to black she stabs Anduin, turning him into a raid boss, but later on she has second thoughts and turns on the Jailer, only for him to ice her. She gives the players some plot device or info that will allow us to beat Satan or ends up releasing Anduin so he can go back to doing his thing and then she gets sent to the freezer like Illidan for when they want to take another stab at the character, preferably some years from now.

Eh, I'd argue that would still be just awful to her, her fans, and her detractors. The only way this can play out well is if she's the actual Big Bad of this expac and goes full Kefka to his Gestahl. The Jailer is just awful.

Bonus points if they nudged the meme and audience expectations of a redemption story with it. She comes in and kill-steals him to everyone's shock, it's initially played as a heroic moment.

Anduin: The Shadowlands...are free!
Cuts back to Sylvanas
Sylvanas: No...no, I wouldn't say that at all.
Cue 9.3

...I mean, patch cycles and datamining means you can't surprise anyone anymore, but it'd be nice to see her get her card back.

[Super Dickmann]

Eh, I'd argue that would still be just awful to her, her fans, and her detractors. The only way this can play out well is if she's the actual Big Bad of this expac and goes full Kefka to his Gestahl. The Jailer is just awful.

Bonus points if they nudged the meme and audience expectations of a redemption story with it. She comes in and kill-steals him to everyone's shock, it's initially played as a heroic moment.

Anduin: The Shadowlands...are free!
Cuts back to Sylvanas
Sylvanas: No...no, I wouldn't say that at all.
Cue 9.3

...I mean, patch cycles and datamining means you can't surprise anyone anymore, but it'd be nice to see her get her card back.

Hard agree. It's why I said likely and not preferred.

When it comes to preference, My preferred version were for her never to have trusted the Jailer in the first place for one thing, given how nonsensical that bit is. But if I were to keep that bugbear and keeping myself as plausible as possible given where Blizzard have shown to be willing to go and what they're likely doing with characters, I'd go with something like this. She goes through with converting Anduin, then has a moment of realizing the obvious when she sees the Jailer teaming up with Kel'thuzad of 'Arthas needs to drop me into the Sunwell' fame and then, if somehow she doesn't know already, that it was his valks that dropped her into hell. Having already turned Anduin we play up her being tricked and how the Jailer actually just wants to kill everyone and she begins working against him in secret. Tyrande and Co point out how she shouldn't be trusted but are stalled from killing her by our intrepid heroes who of course see the goodness in her.

A later raid in the Maw or what have you sees the Jailer set to release his forces, and it looks like the do-gooders are about to be validated once the post-raid cinematic has Sylvanas free Anduin and foil the Jailer's plan and the heroes kill him, The music swells, Sylvanas helps defrost Anduin from the big on/off switch keeping the Maw's forces tied up and thanks him for setting her straight and helping her realize she was someone else's pawn. In fact, she was so inspired that she now intends to return the favor to everyone else and set them all free(TM). She finishes up the freeing of the Maw forces, now under her command, and goes off to usurp the Arbiter and become god. She lets Anduin go because he has contractual immunity and as a measure of respect. Cue final raid with her as the end boss.

Bonus points if the follow up is an 'I told you so' by those who called this from the start and this later leads into Anduin having trouble getting his throne back.

[Ophenia]

I definitely miss simpler times when there was a threat, we defeated it, then something else happened. I feel like we're in the current situation since forever, as the current events are coming from something that happened in ... MoP ? Garrosh who went crazy, then back in time, freed Gul'dan, made the Legion come to Azeroth, leading the Sarg' stabbing the planet, bla, bla, bla and now the Jailer is behind most of this shit since the beginning, even further (with LK) ?

It seems Blizzard writers have written themselves in a corner a long time ago, by trying to write a way-too-convoluted story they can't conclude at all without retconning half of the existing lore.... And that's a pity. I definitely miss the times when there was a big baddie built for the expac, baddie who we defeated at the end, and the end of the expac could be considered as a "now everything's fine". Until something else happened, of course, but not necessarily linked to the previous. Like Cataclysm-MoP transition. Deathwing defeated, planet can start healing, but then something else, unrelated, happens. I'm fed up of this pile of "We succeeded... But wait ! It was part of X plan all along". Makes all endings feel unsatisfying, like Legion's or BfA (wait, wasn't there a blade somewhere ?).

[Aucald]

It would be rather amusing in a dark sense if the lesson Sylvanas took away from Anduin was to make a choice - said choice being a surprise attack and successful coup on the Jailer, supplanting him the role of "Big Bad" at the height of the expansion, with the rationale that that was the choice Anduin pushed her to make and requiring her final and lasting defeat by the Maw Walker and their retinue. A nice subversion of the worries about a Kerrigan story redux, and cementing the notion that Sylvanas will have no redemption arc to speak of. Would require Sylvanas being another expansion's main villain, but if it includes her final defeat in a dramatic turn of events that might be acceptable to many.

[ilgynoth]

It would be rather amusing in a dark sense if the lesson Sylvanas took away from Anduin was to make a choice - said choice being a surprise attack and successful coup on the Jailer, supplanting him the role of "Big Bad" at the height of the expansion, with the rationale that that was the choice Anduin pushed her to make and requiring her final and lasting defeat by the Maw Walker and their retinue. A nice subversion of the worries about a Kerrigan story redux, and cementing the notion that Sylvanas will have no redemption arc to speak of. Would require Sylvanas being another expansion's main villain, but if it includes her final defeat in a dramatic turn of events that might be acceptable to many.

You wish. You wont get that , gladly.
"muuh I want Sylvanas to be defeated muuuh," . Didnt the devs said already she would not be killed off in a Raid?

[Aucald]

You wish. You wont get that , gladly.
"muuh I want Sylvanas to be defeated muuuh," . Didnt the devs said already she would not be killed off in a Raid?

Wouldn't be the first time the developers have misled or outright deceived the playerbase about their intentions for a final boss of an expansion, or an expansion's general trajectory. Grom was supposed to be the final boss of WoD, for example.

[huth]

You wish. You wont get that , gladly.
"muuh I want Sylvanas to be defeated muuuh," . Didnt the devs said already she would not be killed off in a Raid?

AFAIK, they only said that for BfA. And she wasn't, so they held true to that.

[iamthedevil]

I don't know if it means anything but the model for shalamourne has the tip of the short blade fused to the longer blade, so it appears it's not meant to split anymore.

[tommyhil622]

I don't know if it means anything but the model for shalamourne has the tip of the short blade fused to the longer blade, so it appears it's not meant to split anymore.

Its not fused it's just the magic surrounding the blade that makes it look like that.

[TheFirstOnes]

It would be rather amusing in a dark sense if the lesson Sylvanas took away from Anduin was to make a choice - said choice being a surprise attack and successful coup on the Jailer, supplanting him the role of "Big Bad" at the height of the expansion, with the rationale that that was the choice Anduin pushed her to make and requiring her final and lasting defeat by the Maw Walker and their retinue. A nice subversion of the worries about a Kerrigan story redux, and cementing the notion that Sylvanas will have no redemption arc to speak of. Would require Sylvanas being another expansion's main villain, but if it includes her final defeat in a dramatic turn of events that might be acceptable to many.

Sylvanas: I've come t--

The Jailer: you've come to get yeeted, yeah?

- - - Updated - - -

Its not fused it's just the magic surrounding the blade that makes it look like that.

No, it is. The blade is forged slightly different as well. The rune's around Anduin are just glowing with the blades presence.

[tommyhil622]

Sylvanas: I've come t--

The Jailer: you've come to get yeeted, yeah?

- - - Updated - - -



No, it is. The blade is forged slightly different as well. The rune's around Anduin are just glowing with the blades presence.

It's forged slightly differently but it's not fused at the tip.

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[TheFirstOnes]

It's probably just the aura surrounding it being weird then? I mean, the orb is blue and the blade itself is literally full of runes.

[tommyhil622]

It's probably just the aura surrounding it being weird then? I mean, the orb is blue and the blade itself is literally full of runes.

yea for sure. With the aura and the animation. Honestly I thought it was fused too until I gave it a second look. But, he may be right that maybe it can no longer split.

[PsychoSe7eN]

Unpopular opinion here. But, I love where the story is going. Im also not sad about the tree. The night elves have some skeletons of their own, they aren't saints. They had it coming.. hell, even Elune didn't step in. The tree actually looks awesome now. Cast an awesome shadow from the light emitted from the Elune eclipse.

If she is redeemed, im gonna laugh so hard at the plebs hating her that ill prob spit milk out my nose. Imagine if she returns as the Warchief again and after we kill the corrupted Anduin she raises him as an undead and as her new servant/lover replacement after losing Nathanos.

For the Dark Lady!

[iamthedevil]

Look at the other shot of it, it certainly looks fused.

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Its not fused it's just the magic surrounding the blade that makes it look like that.

Certainly looks fused to me.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Look at the other shot of it, it certainly looks fused.

- - - Updated - - -




https://imgur.com/dO9dnqc.jpg


Certainly looks fused to me.

She's holding it at an angle in that picture. .