Netflix and cancelling

[Mister K]

For a lot of authors/writers/creators, their choices are quite likely "Netflix, now" or "maybe nobody, ever". You're assuming they have other offers that they're turning down in favor of Netflix. Getting a season or two with Netflix is better than maybe getting nothing.

This. A lot of the times, funding is an issue, Netflix has the funding. Getting solid $$$ for an Indie show is not easy. Camera rental ($1,000 to $5,000 per day) + crew, pay for actors, food, cost for props etc can be 10s of thousands of dollars per day. Helped shoot a music video and it was around £35,000 and that's peanuts and day of filming.

[tmamass]

I think the BBC has done something similar for decades. You aren't really looking at a TV show with 20 episodes per year, but more of a miniseries with a few episodes and then maybe they do more down the road. Sherlock for example with Benedict Cumberbatch was never a huge series in terms of number of episodes. They did 2-3 stories and then moved on until the next year.

thats cause brits tend to do shorter season then the bloated ones americans do, so 6 ep per season is quite normal in the uk.

[caractacus]

I've watched tons of Netflix and I'm struggling to think of one instance of a show that I think they ended prematurely. Possibly Marco Polo but if a show is making a huge loss you can't blame them.

[tmamass]

I've watched tons of Netflix and I'm struggling to think of one instance of a show that I think they ended prematurely. Possibly Marco Polo but if a show is making a huge loss you can't blame them.

Sabrina? all the Marvel shows? Marco Polo?.... and yet you cant think of one?

Those douches will probably cancel cobra kai...

Well tbh I expect the next season to be the last...

[Sorrowseer]

Netflix sucks, the series are all generaly the same-ish with just usually above average production but nothing great, there are ofc a few stand out examples, before you jump me, but many of them are kinda meh which is a disservice to the show itself but its understandable why so many are cancelled, they are just being popped out and so much of it is the same, its crappy all a round for everyone involved and shitty for those watching actually wanting more, but I am sure the shareholders are going 'money machine go brrr' with each new show greenlit.

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thats cause brits tend to do shorter season then the bloated ones americans do, so 6 ep per season is quite normal in the uk.

Ever see Rome by the BBC? It was supper sad that was ended 2 whole seasons early, seaons 5 and 6 were rammed into season 4 so that season was bloated, shame the costs where too high, it was a pinnacle existence series.

[Triceron]

Personally speaking, I would be very fine with it. I have two views that inform this take; 1. there is so much content out there I can barely get to it all. I am in no danger of running out of books, music, films, series & games. 2. I don't think a niche is very desirable. Art that does not speak to or engage culture becomes increasingly useless.

I completely acknowledge your opinion and respectfully disagree.

It's true that there is always an abundance of material out there, more than we could ever completely consume, but I do not think this addresses Art as a medium rather you're just saying that Art needs to be commercially and financially successful to deserve being maintained. I disagree with this notion considering it is only the current metric being used by Netflix to sustain their particular business model, not a metric to define what the outcome of the medium should be.

That you choose to look at entertainment as a whole as something you can easily distance yourself from is fine. I simply don't think this addresses my point on what is happening with the medium. We could be talking about the shift from script-driven TV sitcoms to the rise of Reality TV shows back in the early 2000's, and we could just as easily say there's more than enough content to consume. My criticism is aimed at the focus on popularity metrics inevitably driving shows to follow popular trends rather than diversifying or building a lasting brand. The way I see it, it's an extension of the most popular Tik Tok or Youtube videos being 'kept' while anything less gets purged. This isn't as much of an issue for Youtube or Tiktok since it's primarily user-driven content, and the niche will always be there as an alternative, whether popular or not. That is not the same case with shows with production costs and values being subject to the same type of metric, considering the pace at which viewership is generated or not.

We've seen the 'Fox effect' prematurely kill series like Family Guy or Futurama, and those series proved themselves popular enough over time when given the room to grow. With the pace that Netflix turns over content, there is even less time for anything ro breathe while those who do get continued have to constantly 'up the ante' to maintain AND grow viewership lest they risk themselves being cut. In my opinion, it will have a definite impact on quality of story telling. Those are just some of my concerns and criticisms regarding this algorithm-based system using viewership as metrics. Considering the amount of content being pumped out is in direct competition with each other, a person watching show A is also unable to watch shows B, C, D and E. This isn't content paced out like it is on broadcast television, it's content that is in direct competition with its own platform.

And as for Art that does not speak to or engage culture... shifts happen all the time in genres. Until Pirates of the Caribbean, no big film company dared to touch Pirates on the big screen after the catastrophic failure of Cutthroat Island. It wasn't until Disney was able to pull it off that it practically redefined what we understand today as a Pirate movie. If we were simply to accept the social norms, then Pirate movies would remain taboo simply because of a general consensus that 'Pirate movies suck'. Game of Thrones came about and showed us we can have a mainstream Fantasy genre without simply being a typical campy Xena Princess Warrior type series. What's important to understand is that people don't know what they like until they have a taste of it; and the Netflix algorithm will work great in providing a wide range of tastes, but it is not good for allowing those tastes to be fully explored or simmered to perfection due to the fickle tastes of the viewers. You can't really make a masterpiece if the only metric you have is to please as many people as possible or risk getting cut as a result. The algorithm generally favours Fast Food and Bubble Tea over any particular Dining Cuisines.

[Dread Pirate Phayde]

Netflix obviously purchased the Fox/Syfy playbook on how to make original content. While they are the biggest offender these days, its not exactly a new issue, I'm sure I could rattle off a dozen shows that I was pulled in by, only to be left hanging, and its why I have become so hesitant to get invested in new shows anymore.

[Acidbaron]

Honestly there are very few series that remain of high quality over multiple seasons, i rather have them do more "limited" series and not drag things out, i know people like more of the same but eventually it gets tiresome and turns into a fan service over rather good quality story. There are some exceptions to this rule like Supernatural was pretty much more of the same but it did remain interesting you also didn't watch it for great plot twists although it had them here and there.

Sabrina on netflix is one of those shows, you really feel it was dragged out.

Not every tv series is going to be another The Sopranos, House MD, Breaking Bad, To name those that remained of okay to great quality over the years.

[Nynax]

f00k netflix, they cancelled the dark crystal season two...

this made me laugh, lol.

[schwank05]

This is why I think AMC does new seasons the best in the industry by doing a 6 episode 1st season, if you don't like a series in the first Episode or at the very least by the 6th you sure as hell aren't going to watch a second or recommend it to a friend to look at. So if the show flops after 6 episodes you are not out nearly as much revenue as if you had produced a 13-18 episode season as most other shows and after the 1st season all the AMC shows ramp up to.

[baskev]

I was wondering something.

Netflix is creating and funding new tv shows like crazy. And cancelling them immediatly afterwards in 99% of cases.

I do understand why they do it. They get new members with new shows. They don't loose any as long as they create new shows.

But WHY would a creator who really likes and is convinced of his concept for a tv show sign with netlix?
The chances of surviving even past the first season are really really slim. Not even talking about after the second which nearly none of them get unless you are a phenomenon like stranger things.

I get that they make short HUGE money. But that is it. Weiss and beniof apparantly got a 200 million deal. But every tv show netlfix made in the last few years gets cancelled immdeiatly. Does really every one of those creators give that less of a shit about their shows?

In contrast apple tv weirdly renewed everything i think.

I really hope peacock, hbo and disny fuck netlix over hard so they stop puking new tv shows out and keep some of the good ones for longer that just a year.


Why do you think people sign with them? Can't just be the money. Some of them are big names in their own right allready.

Its the same thing sci fy channel did. I hate it. You can not fall in love with a show. because you turn around and its gone for little reason at all.

But why a person sign:MONEY . The fact that netflix sponsors a lot of stuff means you get greenlit a lot faster.
Think of it like this: my show was not picked up by HBO, Disney etc. Netflix says: lets make 1 season. Yes it might be cancelled. But my name is out there. And if my product is anything good. more people/studio's might want to work with me. And atleast something of mine is out.

And before, most studio's picked very save shows. But netflix had ( and still has) some crazy concept and/or non american ( sometimes) shows.

But i blame the pulling of shows and movies the most. All the other ones HBO, disney etc etc take and put on shows/movies on their channels or take them away from others ( like netflix). So less movies etc overall on these platforms. So they need 1 hit wonders to pull in the people. But 1 hit wonders are only good for attracting new people once. Once they are there you need more people. So new shows.

For me the question is more: is the current system, a good thing long term.

pro's right now:
- a lot of shows
- with a lot of great old/new actors
- crazy shows that never would have happend before ( cobra kia!)

Con's right now:
- dozens of apps
- subsciptions cost is very high. And good portions of the world do not even get stuff. Netherlands, UK where the only ones who got disney+ at the start.
- splintered movies/series. You want to watch a franchise/series. A lot of the time movies/seasons might be missing because of rights etc.
- searching on several apps where the serie/movie is you want to watch. Hobs vs shaw....5 apps later...ahhh there it is. ( i know silly movie, but a crush on vennesa kirby ).
- to many cannceled shows

For me, i think they are pushing us towards torrents etc again. They had a good thing going.

Solutions: 1 big app you pay more money for but get a lot of content. Like this:
App X you get everything from netflix, HBO, ABC.
So not a app per studio. But 1 group of studio's per app

Or

Devide the profit of my subscription. So lets say i pay...30 bucks for something
I watch a lot of movies and shows.
Of my total watch time i watched:
- 40 hours of disney
- 20 hours of netflix
- 20 hours of HBO
- 10 hours of ABC
- 10 hours of amazon prime.

That would mean :
disney gets 12 bucks
netflix and hbo 6 bucks each
abc and amazon 3 bucks each.

[Shadowferal]

Umm...Cobra Kai? If Netflix does that show dirty could it not simply return from whence it came? (YouTube)

[Zyky]

Why do you think people sign with them? Can't just be the money. Some of them are big names in their own right allready.

Taking the quick money out of the equation, it opens doors as a writer or creator. If you create something that ends up on Netflix, you can get your name into the industry where you can then have an easier time pitching concepts to networks or other streaming services.

[Krastyn]

Not every tv series is going to be another The Sopranos, House MD, Breaking Bad, To name those that remained of okay to great quality over the years.

5-6 seasons is about the limit. Even House started to drag, and could have easily ended sooner. I don't know if I can list off a series longer than 6 seasons that didn't start to suffer from bloat.

I would actually prefer more shows aim for a 3-6 season arc rather than trying to be this decades spanning show.

One of the things that interested me the most about the Picard show was that they said from the start it was to be three seasons.

I just finished Suits over the holidays, and while I enjoyed it, they easily could have ended that in 6-7 seasons instead of 9, and I probably would have enjoyed it more.

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For me, i think they are pushing us towards torrents etc again. They had a good thing going.

Solutions: 1 big app you pay more money for but get a lot of content. Like this:
App X you get everything from netflix, HBO, ABC.
So not a app per studio. But 1 group of studio's per app

That would mean :
disney gets 12 bucks
netflix and hbo 6 bucks each
abc and amazon 3 bucks each.

Opton 1 - you find a friend.

Disney+ = ~$3.33 / month
Netflix = $7
Prime = $5
HBO Max - $5.83

So two people living apart could have all 4 streaming services for $21.17 / month.

I do this with 3 people for Prime / Netflix / Disney+.

Option 2: Simply don't subscribe to everything under the sun every month.

Pick what you want that month, and only pay for 2-3 streaming services.

Either way, it's still way, way cheaper than cable.

[baskev]

Opton 1 - you find a friend.

Disney+ = ~$3.33 / month
Netflix = $7
Prime = $5
HBO Max - $5.83

So two people living apart could have all 4 streaming services for $21.17 / month.

I do this with 3 people for Prime / Netflix / Disney+.

Option 2: Simply don't subscribe to everything under the sun every month.

Pick what you want that month, and only pay for 2-3 streaming services.

Either way, it's still way, way cheaper than cable.

Yeah, doubt it will ever happen. but yeah. Those where my idea's.

Its all to much hasle to maybe watch a show/movie you want to see.

[Krastyn]

Yeah, doubt it will ever happen. but yeah. Those where my idea's.

Its all to much hasle to maybe watch a show/movie you want to see.

The difficulty with an app like you say though, is it becomes really hard for companies to try to forecast revenue if they have no idea how much money they are going to get. It would actually incentivize quantity over quality, which is exactly what the OP doesn't want.

[JDL49]

I have a bloated post. But like i said. I understand netlix in that regard. I do not understand the people signing with netlix. That was basicallly m problem^^

It's actually pretty simple. Simply put there is no other place to go. Either the networks and cable have already passed on it or would not have considered it in the 1st place.

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Netflix tends to not gain a lot from a long multi-season series;

Just to be clear are you referring to original content only ? Because they heavily relied on shows like Friends and The Office until they were taken away.

[Ringthane]

But it isn't. Audiences are not watching these shows in such numbers to justify the cost.

And why should they, when Netflix keeps cancelling them? My mother stopped watching new shows on TV for the same reason - she'd just get into one and it would be cancelled. Same thing with Fox and Syfy. People gave up on new shows because they would just cancel them.

It's a vicious circle - people get invested in shows, then the shows get cancelled early, so people stop watching new shows, then the new shows get cancelled early...

[Endus]

And why should they, when Netflix keeps cancelling them? My mother stopped watching new shows on TV for the same reason - she'd just get into one and it would be cancelled. Same thing with Fox and Syfy. People gave up on new shows because they would just cancel them.

It's a vicious circle - people get invested in shows, then the shows get cancelled early, so people stop watching new shows, then the new shows get cancelled early...

Arguing that this is somehow a new "thing" with streaming services, though, is nonsense. Cable networks have cancelled shows mid-season, they've had great shows with one solid season they screwed over and cancelled (hello, Firefly), and so on. It's absolutely not a new concept, at all. This is why the "six seasons and a movie" meme because a thing with Community; that's when you could say you'd "made it" as a big success. Because getting to six seasons was a wild expectation that only the most popular shows would ever get a chance at. Even if it was always at least halfway tongue-in-cheek with Community.

It's also a self-fulfilling prophecy. You don't watch and support new shows, so they don't get viewers, so they get cancelled.

[JDL49]

Netflix has spoken about this quite a bit actually. There statistics tell them that most shows lose 50% of there audience after season 2 and it keeps going like that, so unless a show gets big big numbers it gets cancelled around season 3 most of the time. Obviously there's exceptions, but that's the general reason why. As to why they make tons of shows, its cheaper for them by a ton in the long run, even if the show or movie is only mediocre. The biggest cost they have is licensing right to shows they don't own, the more then self make the cheaper it is for them in the long run.

Part of it is that Netflix has standard contract language that gives raises after 3 seasons in most cases. As for that 50% drop-off stat, I saw that number quoted on the Marvel stuff but no where else afaik.