Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
LastLast
  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopsu View Post
    Seriously? Item for legendaries is called MEMORY OF "X". Why it's memory? Because it's something that used to be in game. Not sure how in the hell people can't figure this out.
    Errm, no. They are called memories because these are the memories that the Jailer took from the Runecarver, not because they are things we have seen in the past.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    RIP the arcane dream. It's fine, just boring AF.
    I don't really see how it is more boring than popsicle-launcher frost or fire right now.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    You can everything bad about GC but classes/specs at SoO were so damn balanced, this must be said
    *Laughs in Warlock*



    Also don't know what you're all crying about. Fire mage is doing more than fine right now. It has up to two cheat deaths, an immunity, tons of other utility including bloodlust, does high damage in ST and AoE and is playable in PvE as well as PvP. So yeah, sure, Frost and Arcane are not that great, but the class as a whole is fine.
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2021-01-05 at 10:51 AM.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Fire does not need buff.
    We are behind hunters, moonkins, shadow and warlocks. They all have better stat values than fire mage. Only reason to bring mage to raid is int buff. How you think our situation will improve if they leave fire as it is? If they buff frost ahead of fire then yes I can understand you don't want changes to fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    Just need to make phoenix flames always crit again, that will fix the fire problem...
    Can I ask what making phoenix flames always crit would change? You want to have your phoenix flames charges for combustion and everyone playing Kindling meaning you have 1min 15 second to get all our charges back for new combustion which is pretty much same as our combustion cooldown..
    Last edited by Hopsu; 2021-01-05 at 10:53 AM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    *Laughs in Warlock*



    Also don't know what you're crying about. Fire mage is doing more than fine right now. It has up to two cheat deaths, an immunity, tons of other utility including bloodlust, does high damage in ST and AoE and is playable in PvE as well as PvP. So yeah, sure Frost and Arcane are not that great, but the class as a whole is fine.
    Nope, it is not. The fire spec is "fine", the other 2 are not. As long as the other 2 are not, the mage class is not fine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopsu View Post
    We are behind hunters, moonkins and warlocks. They all have better stat values than fire mage. Only reason to bring mage to raid is int buff. How you think our situation will improve if they leave fire as it is? If they buff frost ahead of fire then yes I can understand you don't want changes to fire.



    Can I ask what making phoenix flames always crit would change apart from getting more instant flamestrikes outside of combustion on multi targets? You want to have your phoenix flames charges for combustion and everyone playing Kindling meaning you have 1min 15 second to get all our charges back for new combustion which is pretty much same as our combustion cooldown..
    Frost and Arcane are in dire need of buff or fix. Once it is done, we can talk about fire.

    And your quote is hilarious in fact. You cite 3 class that are above fire (in fact, it is mostly the spec in those class). So I guess we should make raids with only those specs and bench everyone else.
    Last edited by Specialka; 2021-01-05 at 10:53 AM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Nope, it is not. The fire spec is "fine", the other 2 are not. As long as the other 2 are not, the mage class is not fine.
    By that metric no class is fine. Especially no pure DPS class. Warlocks have the top spec right now, but since Destruction is the bottom spec and Demo just average, Warlocks are also not fine, I guess? Also warlocks are relatively useless in M+, so there's that. Same applies to other pure DPS classes.
    As long as a pure DPS class has one spec on the top it's fine, meaning that mage is better off than hunters and rogues while being on par with warlocks.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    By that metric no class is fine. Especially no pure DPS class. Warlocks have the top spec right now, but since Destruction is the bottom spec and Demo just average, Warlocks are also not fine, I guess? Also warlocks are relatively useless in M+, so there's that. Same applies to other pure DPS classes.
    As long as a pure DPS class has one spec on the top it's fine, meaning that mage is better off than hunters and rogues while being on par with warlocks.
    Nope. I do not play a mage. I play an Arcane Mage, and i do not plan to play a fire mage. Hence it is not fine.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Nope. I do not play a mage. I play an Arcane Mage, and i do not plan to play a fire mage. Hence it is not fine.
    I mean, not playing the top spec is your choice. Blizz gives you the option to do better. But nevertheless, Frost and Arcane could use some buffs.

  8. #68
    Arcane desperately needs mobility (i mean being able to do decent dps while doing hc/mythic mechanics), frost needs flat dmg increase on the other hand
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    Arcane desperately needs mobility (i mean being able to do decent dps while doing hc/mythic mechanics), frost needs flat dmg increase on the other hand
    Arcane needs more than mobility. Am fine with it's mobility really, but it's versatility when it comes to damage is non-existant comparing to other specs(even mage). There is no constant solid cleave, no execute, no spread AoE, nothing that gives additional utility to the raid. You literally choose between ST and melee AoE, which isn't even that strong. Talking ST it's middle of the too, so why exactly would anyone go Arcane when the best you can expect is middle of the pack dps from a full ST spec.

    For taking it seriously, they need to buff the damage by a lot. It should in all reality be the highest single target nuker in the game, because it has nothing else it can give. But that won't happen, because people just stare at sims nowdays.

    But what it really needs is a full gutting. Just remove everything exept the iconic spells and rework how it works. We've seen them trying to make arcane work for 15 years soon and outside of Shard of Woe times, it has never really worked.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    But what it really needs is a full gutting. Just remove everything exept the iconic spells and rework how it works. We've seen them trying to make arcane work for 15 years soon and outside of Shard of Woe times, it has never really worked.
    Just remove once and for all that UBERMEGASH*T spell called rop and i'm happy with that, it's incredible this abortion of a spell lasted that long with many other (mop frost bomb above all) being removed or turned into trash
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  11. #71
    As long as there's one working spec in both PvP and PvE for a single role class, I'd consider the situation manageable. Of course having the luxury of choosing between multiple viable options would be even better. So in that sense mage is doing fine I guess. Not too great, not too bad.
    Things I don't like.. Rune of Power. Holy shit with that thing. Just scrap it already and stab anyone in the face who recommends introducing it ever again. Also the overall playstyle is leaning a bit too much on the "all your damage comes from these instant procs" side; feels a bit dull when your iconic spells (frostbolt, fireball) are used merely to fish procs while dealing next to no damage.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    Just remove once and for all that UBERMEGASH*T spell called rop and i'm happy with that, it's incredible this abortion of a spell lasted that long with many other (mop frost bomb above all) being removed or turned into trash
    RoP is the best spell of mage and fits perfectly the theme of an arcane mage. It won't go anywhere.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    By that metric no class is fine. Especially no pure DPS class. Warlocks have the top spec right now, but since Destruction is the bottom spec and Demo just average, Warlocks are also not fine, I guess? Also warlocks are relatively useless in M+, so there's that. Same applies to other pure DPS classes.
    As long as a pure DPS class has one spec on the top it's fine, meaning that mage is better off than hunters and rogues while being on par with warlocks.

    This is just people getting used to the laziness of Blizzard to tune pure classes. (or even classes with multiple dps specs)
    Why do you want hybrid classes to get a nice tune in every spec, but only one good spec for pure classes?
    I mean: why would you want boomkin to be viable if your cat spec is awesome?
    or arms vs fury?
    Or let us even pull it further: why would you want a shadow priest to be good if their holy spec is awesome?
    I get it: different roles, but you get the gist, right?
    I believe that every spec should be good enough in every fight, for the role the spec is meant to be.
    Pure classes, just because they cannot do anything else, should have the option to spec into another spec that happens to a little bit more optimal for a particular fight.
    The only reason to do this is to get that little bit extra for that one fight, and only if the player wants to do that.
    It is okay, when playing a spec, to be a bit better on one fight, and to be a bit worse on another, depending on your strengths and weaknesses. (within certain margins of course)
    It is not okay to have to play a spec you do not like because that one spec is flavor of the month, or if a spec outshines another on every single aspect.
    This goes for every single spec in every role there is.

    Right now classes are tuned in one spec for each role, and we should not be okay with that.
    I think Blizzard could and definitely should do a better job there.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Saysis View Post
    This is just people getting used to the laziness of Blizzard to tune pure classes. (or even classes with multiple dps specs)
    Why do you want hybrid classes to get a nice tune in every spec, but only one good spec for pure classes?
    I mean: why would you want boomkin to be viable if your cat spec is awesome?
    or arms vs fury?
    Or let us even pull it further: why would you want a shadow priest to be good if their holy spec is awesome?
    I get it: different roles, but you get the gist, right?
    I believe that every spec should be good enough in every fight, for the role the spec is meant to be.
    Pure classes, just because they cannot do anything else, should have the option to spec into another spec that happens to a little bit more optimal for a particular fight.
    The only reason to do this is to get that little bit extra for that one fight, and only if the player wants to do that.
    It is okay, when playing a spec, to be a bit better on one fight, and to be a bit worse on another, depending on your strengths and weaknesses. (within certain margins of course)
    It is not okay to have to play a spec you do not like because that one spec is flavor of the month, or if a spec outshines another on every single aspect.
    This goes for every single spec in every role there is.

    Right now classes are tuned in one spec for each role, and we should not be okay with that.
    I think Blizzard could and definitely should do a better job there.
    I don't want hybrid DPS specs to be awesome. A hybrid DPS spec should never be better than ALL of the specs of a pure DPS class. Pure DPS classes have no backup if they can't do damage.

    And the balance you are dreaming of never existed and never will exist. It's absolutely impossible, both balancing wise and player mentality wise. And that each spec should have it's nieche is something, I view as extremely bad coming from BfA and especially Legion, where you were encouraged to play only one spec and accepting all it's strenghts and weaknesses. In theory that concept is good, but it requires Blizzard to think in class terms, not in spec terms. I'm not quite confident, that Blizz has returned to that vision with SL.

  15. #75
    Herald of the Titans
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    2,509
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    *Laughs in Warlock*



    Also don't know what you're all crying about. Fire mage is doing more than fine right now. It has up to two cheat deaths, an immunity, tons of other utility including bloodlust, does high damage in ST and AoE and is playable in PvE as well as PvP. So yeah, sure, Frost and Arcane are not that great, but the class as a whole is fine.
    You realize that makes no sense right. Frost is need not apply for all forms of group content, about as close to being unplayable a spec can get in this game. That is far from fine.

  16. #76
    Banned Video Games's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Portland (send help)
    Posts
    16,130
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyiana View Post
    i'm not super happy, but we have a workable spec and provide a buff. but it definitely doesn't feel good that, for the first time since probably wrath, a mage spec isn't dominating meters.
    Mage wasnt that great in uldir and awful in bfd. We only got fixed because of essences

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Amsden View Post
    You realize that makes no sense right. Frost is need not apply for all forms of group content, about as close to being unplayable a spec can get in this game. That is far from fine.
    Look, some spec has to be the worst spec. It just so happens that it's Frost this time. But since the Mage class as a whole has one pretty good spec, you're not forced to reroll classes. That's my vision of fine. Also, if you are a good Frost player your DPS will still be fine. Not amazingly good, but you can't expect that considering you are not willing to play the best spec. You are overexxagerating the matter.

  18. #78
    Warchief Eace's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    2,052
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Look, some spec has to be the worst spec. It just so happens that it's Frost this time. But since the Mage class as a whole has one pretty good spec, you're not forced to reroll classes. That's my vision of fine. Also, if you are a good Frost player your DPS will still be fine. Not amazingly good, but you can't expect that considering you are not willing to play the best spec. You are overexxagerating the matter.
    This is just not true. Frost ST dps is absolutely horrible at the moment, and being a good Frost player does not change that.

    The Mage class overall is not unplayable. Fire is good in both ST and AoE, Arcane is decent (although heavily gimped by movement), and Frost is just terrible (it has a niche in sustained AoE via Glacial Fragments, but that's not enough to warrant bringing it over Fire).

    The biggest problem people have with Mage currently is that we're, once again, forced to spec Fire to be competitive. Fire is bursty and heavily reliant on Combustion, and that's not a playstyle everyone enjoys.
    "We don't care what people say, we know the truth. Enough is enough with this horse s***. I am not a freak, I was born with my free gun. Don't tell me I'm less than my freedom."

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Eace View Post
    This is just not true. Frost ST dps is absolutely horrible at the moment, and being a good Frost player does not change that.
    I mean, define horrible. Is it bad? Yes. Is it the worst? Not necessarily. Can a good Frost player be better than most other players? Absolutely. The spec is a little behind on the logs, but that could have multiple reasons:
    1. Warcraftlogs charts don't start at 0, meaning every difference between specs is portrayed harsher than in reality.
    2. Players who care about performance play fire rather that frost, meaning Frost's logs are lower on average. A good Frost player (90th percentile) still outperforms 50 or 60 percentile players of other classes.

    Bottom line is, Frost is not great but not horrible

    The Mage class overall is not unplayable. Fire is good in both ST and AoE, Arcane is decent (although heavily gimped by movement), and Frost is just terrible (it has a niche in sustained AoE via Glacial Fragments, but that's not enough to warrant bringing it over Fire).

    The biggest problem people have with Mage currently is that we're, once again, forced to spec Fire to be competitive. Fire is bursty and heavily reliant on Combustion, and that's not a playstyle everyone enjoys.
    This is a reasoning I can understand, since I found myself in the same position in BfA. But then I did what I liked most, played Frost and it was still good enough for my raid. If your raid is highly competitive, then fire is the only way. But if Frost and Fire's positions were reversed, the same complaints would arise from fire players, which while maybe just since fire was better for a long time, is essentially the same problem.

    Let me ask you this: would the mage class be more fine, if all three specs were dead average, right in the middle of the DPS charts?
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2021-01-06 at 04:47 PM.

  20. #80
    Herald of the Titans
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    2,509
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    I mean, define horrible. Is it bad? Yes. Is it the worst? Not necessarily. Can a good Frost player be better than most other players? Absolutely. The spec is a little behind on the logs, but that could have multiple reasons:
    1. Warcraftlogs charts don't start at 0, meaning every difference between specs is portrayed harsher than in reality.
    2. Players who care about performance play fire rather that frost, meaning Frost's logs are lower on average. A good Frost player (90th percentile) still outperforms 50 or 60 percentile players of other classes.

    Bottom line is, Frost is not great but not horrible



    This is a reasoning I can understand, since I found myself in the same position in BfA. But then I did what I liked most, played Frost and it was still good enough for my raid. If your raid is highly competitive, then fire is the only way. But if Frost and Fire's positions were reversed, the same complaints would arise from fire players, which while maybe just since fire was better for a long time, is essentially the same problem.

    Let me ask you this: would the mage class be more fine, if all three specs were dead average, right in the middle of the DPS charts?
    You shouldn't have to parse 90 to beat someone parsing 50 or 60 that's the problem. And it doesn't matter how good you are at the spec if just being frost gets you declined invites from everything. I don't care that frost is last but it shouldn't be 25% worse than 1st.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •