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  1. #101
    No, I just think that too many people especially younger people in general that have no responsibilities in real life or have no jobs get all butt hurt if your like me and have a narrow window to play and cannot stand when people waste my time. That and most are a bunch of pussies the get offended by anything let alone being called a name or something most don't know how to take criticism of any kind because they have been getting participation trophies their whole life.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    That and most are a bunch of pussies the get offended by anything let alone being called a name or something most don't know how to take criticism of any kind because they have been getting participation trophies their whole life.

    Yes sir, you sound like a mature adult, it's people treating the game as a game who are being childish. If you want to play with people who play the game at your level, find a guild or static group that wants to play at that level. If you roll the dice on rando PuGs, you get what you get.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucitity View Post
    Yes sir, you sound like a mature adult, it's people treating the game as a game who are being childish. If you want to play with people who play the game at your level, find a guild or static group that wants to play at that level. If you roll the dice on rando PuGs, you get what you get.
    I totally get it I have a great guild that is extremely helpful I am talking about general experiences in pugs since about Wrath. BC everyone seemed to care if they were wasting peoples time. For instance I just got my holy Pally to max level this week and was doing M+ runs with him and we were wiping because I didn't have the skill necessary or experience to do the key we were on and I ended the run to save my guildmates time. If I see that I am the problem I take responsibility and understand that peoples time is their most important asset and don't want to waste it.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Fidisko View Post
    Helo,

    Ive read many times that wow community is very toxic, but what does toxicity even mean?

    For me Toxic players are the ones that are blaming everyone for failing and ruining player experience on purpose. ( leaving groups without purpose, be mean, blaming everyone and just cry)

    Yesterday i went 2x Mythic +11, i did buy flask/food, have correct talents and know each boss and trash mechanics and i know my job not to fail the group.
    Because there are 4 more people who probably dont have all the time like me in the world and want to have things done. So its my responsibility for them as well to do as much as i can, not to fail.

    And for me this is common sense. Now my experience from yesterday is that ppl didnt know tactics at all at the Other side Manastorm fight, me as a Healer deffused all the bombs, soak 2 crystals and they didnt stack on the Aoe from Malificient and im told them after wipe that im doing everything yet they have clearly no idea what to do here. DPS left and the group blamed me that he did because of me, because why am i even writing something?

    its like are people really getting offended so easily? I did 150% job at the fight yet they did 50% so should i just be quiet and wipe?

    Today same, 2/5 people had no idea what to do at +11, when i ask them why not read jornal before making/joining a group, im blamed that im taking the game really seriously and just "chill bruh". Ok i was quiet we wiped 5 times at one boss due to same mistakes, then i left.

    For me, this is not toxicity but taking responsibily for your own actions and be responsible to the group members as well, and im not gonna carry someone else because he cant click dungeon journal and read 2 senteces. From my perspective they are toxic, they are ruining the group experience and blaming others attitude because they cannot admit they simply failed the boss,dungeon whatever and learn from it

    What is your opinion?

    Thanks
    To me - no, you're very responsible. But there will be a shit ton and very vocal people who will yell TOXIC TOXIC
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  5. #105
    in general terms, toxicity in multiplayer games is a negative attitude towards your teammates. This can be insults in chat but it can also be the "I do what I want and don't give a damn about you" attitude some/many players have. Not knowing boss mechanics in more challenging keys because "it will be fine, the others will fix my mistakes" is a toxic attitude. That's actively playing against your own team just like insulting them is. Not using your dispel as dps because "lol that's not my role" is toxic. Not knowing your base rotation is toxic. There is a level of responsibility to playing with other players where you should know the basics. Know the rules of the game before wasting everyone's time playing it wrong. Unless it's a group created specifically to learn the rules.

    Oftentimes people completely neglect that kind of toxic behavior and only concentrate on chat toxicity, but chat toxicity usually derives from this toxicity. People simply get fed up by players not carrying their own weight and respond poorly. Fighting toxicity by punishing leavers and insulters is good and all but that's treating the symptoms, not the cause of the disease.

  6. #106
    If people join an 11 tyranicall without knowing the tactics for the bosses, you are allowed to be toxic. Even if i don't think you were in this case, however, i don't know how things were said.

  7. #107
    Toxicity can be many things, for me it's mainly how people communicate.

    There can be a player who is dragging the group down and causing wipes and yes, they're toxic, but if another player in that group yells "hey idiot, wtf are you doing? learn the mechanics, gtfo or get kicked." they're being toxic too.

    The sentiment they're expressing is not toxic in itself, but how they're communicating is. You have every right to call out bad players for being bad in content where they absolutely should know better, but depending on HOW you call them out, you can be just as, if not more toxic, than the player you're calling out.

  8. #108
    Being toxic isn't so much about WHAT you do, but more HOW you do it. I have a friend who often tells me stuff like
    "I just explained people the mechanic and they kicked me "

    But everytime I play with him and someone in the group fails he starts his 'explanation' with "Are you retard braindead?"

    So yeah.. just explaning a mechanic can be done in a really toxic way.

    Being toxic usually isn't something you decide to do spontanous. You are either a toxic person or you are not. Doesn't even matter if you are ingame or in rl. Assholes are assholes.

    But since op even comes here to ask I don't think you might be toxic just for explaning.

    I also hate people that go any m+ without knowing the mechanics. You can always make errors or maybe you don't know the mechanic because you usually are a tank and didn't know there was something a dps had to do or you just didn't get the buff you need to interrupt milhouse yet and yeah.. it was your first time and you didn't react right. This is all ok, but people seeing a dungeon for the first time on a M+11 and refuse to learn something new should get a really hard bitchslap.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Toxicity has perversely evolved to include people who tell others they are doing something wrong, and no I don't actually mean being a dick about it.

    Once, I was called toxic a Shrine run in Bfa because I wrote that it looked like people didn't have interrupts in their action bars.
    Yeah I know people who didn't have interrupts on their action bars but the game doesn't really teach you that either it doesn't really teach you anything well if you're a new player. Wow suffers from the same thing that the old Monster Hunter games suffered from which was needing somebody to show you the ropes to properly perform.
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  10. #110
    The Lightbringer Littleraven's Avatar
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    Yes you are being toxic. Not extremely so but to me toxicity is when you aren't willing to cut people even a little slack. I get that not everyone wants to spend all day in a run especially something like mythic+ where you are actually being timed but somewhere along the way the WoW community at large just stopped trying to cut people slack. People are allowed to make a couple mistakes.

    Now if they KEEP making them then you can remove them if needed or whatever you see fit. There should be a limit to this stuff. I just think it is way too low for most people hence why I don't even bother trying to pug anymore. Pugs in general are just not the best experience because you are dealing with complete strangers and generally have no patience for it. And when people start to lose their patience they get mad and shit just spirals from there.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    I think that anyone that invites a player to a +15 without confirming their ability to perform via raider.io has earned their failed run and has hopefully learned a valuable lesson.
    well, a lot of people consider using RIO as being toxic No escaping!

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Littleraven View Post
    Yes you are being toxic. Not extremely so but to me toxicity is when you aren't willing to cut people even a little slack. I get that not everyone wants to spend all day in a run especially something like mythic+ where you are actually being timed but somewhere along the way the WoW community at large just stopped trying to cut people slack. People are allowed to make a couple mistakes.
    The higher the difficulty the less "cutting slack". If someone messes up on normal, I don't care. If it's something crucial like hooking the boss in NW, then I'll calmly explain that they need to aim at the boss with the hook. But at some point some things are just expected as a baseline knowledge and the higher the key the more baseline knowledge is expected. I don't expect people to know the hook mechanic in normal. I do expect people to know it in a +5. I don't expect people to know not to kill the abomination too early in a +5. I do expect that in a +10.

  13. #113
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Really simple yes. No guilds I was in would tolerate your behavior. Yes people make mistakes and there are ways to deal with that and ways not to. This I’m doing a 150% of attitude to throw in people’s faces is a no go. If you feel yourself that much maybe you should solo or find another group. If you’re entire group is bad and you’re complaining about being called toxic yes the problem is you.

    That said sometimes groups aren’t always the right fit it happens. No excuse to be an asshole.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  14. #114
    I expect full buffs and enchants from +0 and up i tell them then kick them. If you Join my group i exspect minimum 3k single 8k aoe starting at+0. If i plan my pulls to get perfect % and always time my keys you better fucking be ready. Anyone saying chill its a game or something like that gets kicked blocked and reported for harassment yes harassment cause i feel harrsed by that idiot.


    So no you are not toxic.

  15. #115
    1. Encouraging versus discouraging. Ranging from playing with a pug in wow to raising a child... Know the difference and determine what type of person you want to be.

    2. Knowing how to act or behave when interacting with people normally should not be too difficult to figure out. However, with the annonymitity of the internet what's considered acceptable seems to differ from in-person interactions. There's a reason to know to have "thicker skin" on the net. Online plus with a pug group I imagine most of us lower even our own standards a bit.

    3. More to your point. I do believe, especially at +11, you should prob be familiar with the fight/mechanics.

    4. If 'initially' you approached/confronted people in an encouraging as possible mannar but quickly becomes clear they do not value your input, time or even their own time then I believe it is your call to make as to how "direct" you want to become.

    5. There are plenty of people who simply do not "give a bleep" and will even go out of their way to make that point. This is clearly "toxic" behavior. However, how you approach someone who makes a mistake or messes something up, especialy when its the first time, determines your own behavior. If you confront them in in a very discouraging mannar(with a negative/selfish yourself vibe), then, at least imho, I consider that to also be "toxic" behavior.

    6. If they continue to make the same mistake over and over, at some point, I'll get fustrated and eventually quit. Every situation is so different though... several things you may want to consider before determining how "direct" or "toxic" you want to become. If I can see someone is genuinely trying to understand/wants to learn then my patience is MUCH higher... I don't mind taking the time to teach someone... but every situation is differrent, every person is different. Simply watching videos and reading up on mechanics is not always enough.. you also then have to expereience it before you can master it.

    7. Ive read countless times ppl saying others are toxic or are horrible in some way because they expect somone to teach them, explain to them or have to "carry" them even if it's a friend. Maybe not in all cases but I feel like with some its actually them who are being selfish. Personally, I enjoy showing, helping, teaching people and helping them to improve, especially when that is also their goal. For me there is a certain satisfaction in helping people. Of course, no I do not want to be taken advantage of either. Yet it still happens at times.. no short supply of opertunistic/lazy people out there.

    For me personally, I prefer approaching a situation or person in an encouraging as possible way, at least intially. If I get the sense they are trying and will learn, I'll worry less about the "whys" or why they suck or how did they make it this far, etc. etc. and just try to help, but only to a point. You also have to have your bounderies and now that your time is valuable.

    Giving the benefit of the doubt, having patience, trying to be encouraging to and for others, being aware of your own behaviors and mindful of how you justify your actions is not always clear.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    And I still believe that it's not disrespectful for a pug to try to run a dungeon or raid that they don't know.
    Well, if you dont go into the dungeon, you will never know it.

  17. #117
    Keyboard Turner ma3xDFSblizz's Avatar
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    Lovely thread!

    So much fun reading very serious players' comments while they are being paid to play and win (eventually thinking themselves as grown and mature), comments from people that are optimistic, comment from many sensitive souls that vent out in the game and are damn silient in RL (even if you slap them across the face) and yes, the whiners siliently reading and not understanding any of this. That much fun I see in here.

    Me, personally, I would rain curses over anyone's head when he decides to put any blame on me without seeing owns actions first. If its my bad, it is, if it's not you'd better suck it up, looser in game, definitely not a winner in RL. Might be wrong, and if thats the case, it'd be better to stop playing something you are not good at. I've stopped playing many games, as a teen, as a student, but needed to admit I'm not as good as I was thinking (first).

    Stopped 7 years ago, came back and WOW!?!... The problem of the community - egocentrism. Solving this would solve many other things, not only in games.

    It would be nice to have a future like "I joined here for" -> Vault run, Time Run, Key upgrade, 'chill bruh', yet it is still not implemented.

    Stay safe guys!

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    Well, if you dont go into the dungeon, you will never know it.
    there is normal.

    there is heroic.

    there is m0.

    there is +2.

    there is +3.

    there is +4.

    ...

    If you don't know the dungeon by +7 then wtf were you doing before?

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    Well, if you dont go into the dungeon, you will never know it.
    That's partially my point. I always make a point of doing my research before I do a dungeon/raid and there's always still a learning curve. I'm not going to be happy about someone not knowing a dungeon/raid, but I'm also not going to hold it against them.
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  20. #120
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fidisko View Post



    and you just a put a judgement on someone you have no idea who he is, my age, my job etc , so it makes you same as you mentioned.
    Of course i did. He asked for opinions. I gave mine. I don't think he's toxic. Judging by his own original post, i still stand by my answer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    What? There are a million different approaches to the game, and different types of players find differnt things toxic.

    If you join a +15 DoS run, and do not know, e.g., that you need to stun the manasturms to interrupt their big hitting abilities, you are rude, and ruin 4 peoples time.
    It is an entirely different story if this happens in a m0, where that mechanic appears for the first time (i am guessing it is not there on heroic).

    So telling the guy in the +15 that he is an idiot and shouldnt waste 4 peoples times because he cba to watch a video or read the dungeon journal, is definetly not considered being toxic by the people in the dungeon. But it is definetly toxic to do so in a m0.

    People with different levels of skill find different things offensive/rude/intolerable.
    I am not even discussing his gaming abilities, knowledge, expertise and such.

    Just the fact that he thinks that asking our opinions here matters at all. His condition will never improve, whatever answers we give him.

    He should eschew considering WoW a place where he can feel accepted by his fellow gamers and try to consider improving his self-admitted severe social ineptitude and psychological deficits.
    /spit@Blizzard

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