And people called me a "crazy doomsayer".

[Minikin]

Good this looks so goofy. Like fanfiction.

all i can think is how shes lifting that thing up with one hand, holding it steady and leveled.

like frostmourne itself is no small item this thing is 1.75 times its size yet this teensy petite undead elf is holding it up like its an led paperweight.

maybe thats the real power of death.

serious muscle strength without showing it.

[Makabreska]

all i can think is how shes lifting that thing up with one hand, holding it steady and leveled.

like frostmourne itself is no small item this thing is 1.75 times its size yet this teensy petite undead elf is holding it up like its an led paperweight.

maybe thats the real power of death.

serious muscle strength without showing it.

Well, Anduin held it the same way, but with full plate. Also Sylvi was ez parrying Saurfang. Also Jailer empowerment. Also who cares, fk it, it's high fantasy setting.

[Syegfryed]

I mean, its Danouser and his troupe, i can also think all those hints about redemption arc, and she being sorry, showing her as a poor, poor person who didn't have a choice, could be just a way of "twisting" the narrative. Isn't something they like to do lately?

1- people believe in one thing,
2- they try to force people believe in another thing, even if means lying
3- so when people believe they show it was the first thing all along and they shout out how masters storytellers they are

1- Horde burns teldrasil right?
2- No guys, Teldrassill is more deeper than that, morally, gray, you will be surprised blablabla
3 - ok, i believe it could be something not that dumb again...
4-horde did anyway, you guys got fooled by our awesome plottwist

1 - Sylvanas is Garrosh 2.0
2 - no guys, she isn't, its different blablablabla
3 - Ok, lets pretend...
4- haha, she was him all along!!11! but we did on purpose!!!

But of course, the twist could be that she indeed get the redemption arc, which is worse

[Mehrunes]

Well, back at Lordaeron he was in the position of power. Now he is on Jailers mercy, so the only weapon on his disposal are his words. It makes perfect sense to me to try to win Sylvi, or at least make her doubt herself and the cause. It just more cunning approach, instead of shit talking her and making demands from his cell.

But the point is it wasn't about him being in position of power at Lordaeron. If it was about that he could have just as well used his position of power to preach to her as usual with a "and you can't even refuse!" caveat. He did that because he (correctly) assumed Sylvanas was a lost cause for Blanduinisation. And between then and their Torghast chit-chats she only got few more notches on her belt of evilness. There's no reason for him to assume this nonsense would work (because it shouldn't work and the fact that it did is even stupider) now after he realized it's not going to work on her then.

all i can think is how shes lifting that thing up with one hand, holding it steady and leveled.

like frostmourne itself is no small item this thing is 1.75 times its size yet this teensy petite undead elf is holding it up like its an led paperweight.

maybe thats the real power of death.

serious muscle strength without showing it.

Undead in WoW have always been abnormally strong. A bunch of unarmed zombies mowed through even Paladins in plate, while Sylvanas was tearing animals apart with her bare hands when she needed a rage outlet after Vereesa remembered she had children and refused her invitation to live in Undercity.

[huth]

Well, Anduin held it the same way, but with full plate. Also Sylvi was ez parrying Saurfang. Also Jailer empowerment. Also who cares, fk it, it's high fantasy setting.

Frankly, unless either every single weapon has a weight reduction enchant or everybody has super strength, we'd have to interrupt fights every 10 seconds so people can catch their breath just from wielding their weapons.

Besides, we're talking about a sword where some parts aren't even physically attached to the rest - if that thing didn't have some levitation magic it'd just fall apart.

[MikeBogina]

faction has nothing to do with this or that. mind you the last cinematic did make her more relatable, which was a good change of pace from the sunday morning cartoon villain style.

These forums clearly are proof that that's not true.

well......technically.....sylvanas is currently helping the guy who is bypassing that rule and sending everyone into crunch time at the maw

She's also most likely being manipulated by the Jailer into believing that she was sent to the Maw by the Arbiter, I have a strong feeling that the Arbiter is going to pull a August Celestials and spare her.

[Makabreska]

But the point is it wasn't about him being in position of power at Lordaeron. If it was about that he could have just as well used his position of power to preach to her as usual with a "and you can't even refuse!" caveat. He did that because he (correctly) assumed Sylvanas was a lost cause for Blanduinisation. And between then and their Torghast chit-chats she only got few more notches on her belt of evilness. There's no reason for him to assume this nonsense would work (because it shouldn't work and the fact that it did is even stupider) now after he realized it's not going to work on her then.

Eh, still not convinced. Back in BfA they didn't know Sylvis plans. Peeps thought she is just a psycho, sitting in Lordaeron throne room, still covered in Teldrassil ash. Now Anduin sees the full picture and her motives, where she is coming from. Also, what he has to loose, trying to sway her when imprisoned?

[salate]

If it turns out that Shadowlands actually "aint that bad afterlife" then they can make Sylvanas somewhat better than she's bacame.

You know the most stupid thing with all those twists that she appears to be a good warchief, then totally OOC to sadistic masochistic mass murder killer 2000 (tree/war in bfa) then she shows in the Torghast some emotions. This is so stupid. Yeah, I can understand that people can change. but dude, some Naruto-therapy like work via Andruin's words? Dunno. I dont believe in that.

I dont know what to feel tbh. Seems like Blizzard themselves doesnt know what to do with her.

But I want to believe it will turn out to something really cool
I always do. And well... most of time I feel disappointed. Lol

[Minikin]

These forums clearly are proof that that's not true.

oh this place is crazy, i wouldnt use it as a barometer.

She's also most likely being manipulated by the Jailer into believing that she was sent to the Maw by the Arbiter,

well thats been a point of dicussion from the start, but i dont think it negates what shes knowingly done. As in, she is aware that a cycle does exist, because at the very least shes aware of Sire Denathrius and thus Revendreth existing. And I mean sylvanas is many things but shes not an idiot. If the jailer told her "Only the maw and revendreth exist theres nothing else!" she wouldnt believe it. Not to mention all the Kyrians becoming Mawsworn would clue her into that another realm like that exists.

Lets afford her the benefit of the doubt and say she doesnt know that Bastion and Ardenweald are fairy tale places to be, but, she does know what the maw does to souls. Put it this way, when the Darkshore warfront launched everyone was howling on how malfurion burying that orc alive was a consequence of saurfang's treachery to the horde, that horrible death is on him. So by that logic......all those horde loyalists and rebels who died and now are getting pasted in the Maw due to a war that she started and they might not have wanted, whos shoulder's is that on?

In the end, if she believes that the arbiter sent her to the maw unfairly (and doesnt know the jailer perhaps forced it), she also believes that her value is greater than all the other souls being mashed in the maw so that she can break the cycle and get out of the maw. Mind you, at least to me, this is in character. Sylvanas was never one for grand honor schemes and self sacrifice. Yea she died for Silvermoon defending it, but that was her job, its not like she didnt know how to use a bow, leave her riches behind and go to war, she was the ranger general. I forget the books name but when they go over her character in it, shes shown to be vain and self interested. And now shes a powerful, flying zombie. So it makes sense the way she is.

I have a strong feeling that the Arbiter is going to pull a August Celestials and spare her.

oh man these forums would melt if that happens.

[Tripzzz]

So are they going with a "she was tricked" excuse for explaining her previous actions? Slyvanus straight up looking like a standard mook for her new bald master(clearly Danuser's new self insert). Previously blizzard had stated that she had no master and she was allied with the Jailer as an equal(which is also bullshit and makes zero sense, how the hell could she be considered equal to a death god "older than reality itself"?) I was wondering how they were going to address this idea that she was the Jailer's equal but it seems they just abandoned it and she is literally just his newest goon. I have seen nothing to suggest they are equals in any way.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q67Upjq7H8

At 22:46 timestamp, Ion says she has no master. But the relationship between the Jailer and Slyvanus seems to be literally that of a master and servant. He tells her what to do and she follows his orders. Ion stated that their goals align which is why she choose to aid him. So either she knows his true plan("you know what must be done" /cringe) and agrees with it or "she was tricked!!11!!". Either way it's really stupid. Also the Jailer is generic as fuck and there is nothing interesting about him at all. Spooky one liners and a plan that revolves around making Anduin a "weapon"? Soy as fuck Anduin? Really? Making him a weapon is your plan you bald fuck? What is this trash?

Is she intentionally being written as retarded or does blizzard think her character arc makes sense? Her actions and motivations make no sense. She claims she wants to "set everyone free" and cries about free will and choices but allies herself with the Jailer whose modus operandi is having prisoners locked up and tortured for eternity or to be literally obliterated and turned into weapons. He also displays no loyalty to his subjects like Denathrius. So what exactly does she see in him that makes her believe he is the solution to the problem? She was killed and raised as a banshee against her will by Arthas but now she willingly bends the knee to this bald 2 bit lich king(sorry, i mean the "original" lich king. /puke) who made that possible in the first place by creating frostmourne? Is she that dumb? Can she not see the connections? Not to mention she is on the same team as Kel'thuzad. Either she knows about him and doesn't care(despite the fact he robbed her of getting revenge on Arthas) or she is being kept in the dark about it. Which goes back to her being "tricked" and thus cleansed of any and all guilt for her genocide, much like the Orcs and the Path of Glory. /s

[Spike`]

So the 2 ways this can end

1. Sylvanas dies on Anduin arms, emotional scene, nostalgic players seeing it like Arthas death

2. Sylvanas gets freed from banshe and returns to human form with same age when she was converted by Arthas and will be the life love of Anduin

Pointing more to 1. especially after seeing the last cinematic and resemblance to Arthas but.... 2. will be the dream of the writer Christie Golden...

remember... we are in the place that is the power that converted her

[VladlTutushkin]

So the 2 ways this can end

1. Sylvanas dies on Anduin arms, emotional scene, nostalgic players seeing it like Arthas death

2. Sylvanas gets freed from banshe and returns to human form with same age when she was converted by Arthas and will be the life love of Anduin

Pointing more to 1. especially after seeing the last cinematic and resemblance to Arthas but.... 2. will be the dream of the writer Christie Golden...

remember... we are in the place that is the power that converted here

Sounds kinda crazy. But knowing blizz...
No, no still too crazy.

[Feanoro]

Sounds kinda crazy. But knowing blizz...
No, no still too crazy.

I can see it though. Danuser won't allow the waifu to lose, not even focus. She will be redeemed and Andy will subserviently follow her. That way both Danuser and Golden are happy. Waifu is spared and Golden's misandrist hate is appeased.

[bowlink]

Sylvanas is eather:
Garrosh 2.0
Illidan 2.0 (i fucking hope not)
The Starscream trope (what i'm hoping for)
in this situation

[Accendor]

The Redemption of Sylvanas is the greatest absurdity of the games I have seen, the mere idea of ​​a redemption for her to be considered is already an unimaginable horror, the character made several cruel experiments including with allies, betrayed allies with chemical weapons at the gate of wrath (wrathgate) compromising peace between alliance and horde, she lied and used everyone like tools, observation we are talking about Sylvanas pre cataclysm, after wrath she declared war on a neutral nation, even used chemical weapons prohibited by her leader to win the war, making the area uninhabitable, tortured Koltira an ally who made a temporary peace agreement with the alliance to face a greater evil, vilified the corpses in MOP, considered murdering his own sister, killed animals to alleviate the frustration of such an act, had a hand in Varian's death, she used Vol'jin's death to come to power, she tried to enslave eyir by jeopardizing Odin's alliance with the alliance’s and horde armies in the campaign against the legion, broke the death machine in her pact with Helya condemning all souls to hell (Maw), caused the genocide against the night elves when she set fire on teldrassil, killing women, children, the elderly, the majority civilians and condemning the victims to eternity in the maw, caused the 4th war a kind of world war, killed its own allies, left its own people the renegades homeless, tried to brainwash an enemy brought back to life against his own will so that he murdered the family, planned kill her sisters, killed her own people when they wanted to return to their loved ones and even those who did not disobey her and chose to be by her side, sought to kill everyone who threatened her stay in power, once again vilified and desecrated both enemy bodies and allies alike, helped to unleash the last of the old gods which almost caused the end of the world, she released the Scourge army upon the world, once more put azeroth in danger caused a cosmic catastrophe of unimaginable proportions when she broke the barrier between the life and death, unsatisfied she kidnapped the greatest leaders of the factions and threw them alive in hell, caused the drought of anima throughout the Shadowlands and compromised the world of the dead, all of this by an illusory utopia, how can such a demon that caused more harm and destruction than gul'dan, arthas, garrosh and deathwing together stand a chance of redemption? Nothing is more absurd than that, if she doesn't face justice and the consequence of her actions, I give up Wow definitely.

Just to make this clear: I agree with you.

However, this was not only Sylvanas doing. For almost all parts the Horde was involved too.
Yes, Sylvanas was behind many things, but in the end the people who executed it were from the horde. Not once or twice, but time and time again.

So all of what you say is true - but not only for Sylvanas, but also for the Horde.