Torghast Boss design is inherently flawed.

[Toppy]

An ongoing issue with Torghast has been the scaling issue with the bosses; they often act as a wall that you either can or cannot surmount no matter how skills you are at your class. I find this to be a just outright poor design. They designed these fights like they were dungeon bosses; things that you can beat based on numbers, with some basic mechanics, and a fair bit of stuff that cannot be avoided. Which is fine for the most part. But when you're scaling your content based on random powers, you get instances where you're being killed in a few seconds with absolutly nothing you can do. This is made worse by a mechanic where the bosses get stronger in time.

I feel the issue here is a fundamental failure in how they went about designing these bosses in the first place.

They should have been designed like Brawl Guild or Mage Tower fights; fights with mechanics that can be gamed in some way. Since the scaling issue is more so for twisting corridor, I feel like if anything this design should have been applied to it. I dont think people would have any problem with it having its own bosses; that way you can at least plan ahead of time for the 2+ hours you'll be spending in the place.

[WskyDK]

Please provide literally any examples.
I've yet to see a torghast boss (as bear, resto, or boomy) that has mechanics I don't have something in my toolkit to beat

[rhorle]

They should have been designed like Brawl Guild or Mage Tower fights; fights with mechanics that can be gamed in some way. Since the scaling issue is more so for twisting corridor, I feel like if anything this design should have been applied to it. I dont think people would have any problem with it having its own bosses; that way you can at least plan ahead of time for the 2+ hours you'll be spending in the place.

Brawlers guild though was comparatively easy. And having a boss like that wouldn't be something you could really plan around. It would just mean sometimes you get lucky and get an easy to cheese boss and other times you get one that is harder. And it would still need scaling in some fashion otherwise layers and anima powers would be meaningless. Because the boss requires mechanics only.

It would also mean random anima powers would harm you more often then not if you require a specific combo to get that boss. The method now works it just need some tuning to make sure things are possible.

[Garymorilix]

Bosses are the only thing that can actually stop you.
This is why you focus your anima powers mainly on being stronger against bosses.

You can take literally forever in Torghast so trash wouldn't need to matter at all.
Yes, this means that you cant just run thru in 15 mins but who cares. You have to do 2 run during a whole week max.
It's much more time consuming to re-start a new run than to have a slower run with guaranteed success.

Take less AoE stuff, more boss counter stuff.

[schwarzkopf]

Please provide literally any examples.

All of the end bosses (each 6 level chunk) are literally examples.

You do trivial content to get to them, and then the bosses are 100x harder than anything you've touched before.

It doesn't matter if you can 'get them down' because you are lucky enough to be able to tank or heal yourself - they are overtuned in comparison to the 5 floors leading up to them.

It also doesn't help that 95% of the anima powers created are useless against the end boss, meaning there is little chance of having anything more than your normal dps against them at the end.

[Zelk]

I've yet to see a boss in torghast last more than 5 seconds on any layer as a warlock, weird that random elites are more difficult than the bosses at the end of the 6 floors tbh.

[WskyDK]

All of the end bosses (each 6 level chunk) are literally examples.

You do trivial content to get to them, and then the bosses are 100x harder than anything you've touched before.

It doesn't matter if you can 'get them down' because you are lucky enough to be able to tank or heal yourself - they are overtuned in comparison to the 5 floors leading up to them.

It also doesn't help that 95% of the anima powers created are useless against the end boss, meaning there is little chance of having anything more than your normal dps against them at the end.

Things you know before ever fighting the boss:
It is a single target fight
You know exactly when it's coming
You know exactly which boss it is.
You know how many and which anima powers you have

If you can't figure out a way to beat an end boss with that information the problem isn't Torghast it's you.

[Gaidax]

So far, on all my layer 8 runs, I encountered only 1 boss that legit wiped me and 3 times at that, until I figured out what to do. And that was pre-nerf that made 10 stacks+ not grant CC immunity.

After this it's really trivial and one of the guys above is on the money - get powers that target end boss, because trash and shit - you will kill it for reals and even when you have seemingly bad powers, it only goes so far. I had some weird run where like 70% of my powers were defensives, but then when I reached end boss I had about 250k HP and had pet with 300k HP or so, so I just yawned through it all.

[Acidbaron]

The problem is, and it's a player problem to an extend not a system or mechanics one. Is that the mobs are easier so any anima combination works till you reach a layer Boss.

Learning what white, green and blue and even epic combo's work is key to beating them easily and this will ring even more true in Twisting Corridors and i believe there will be guides.

I think a lot of people blindy stare at the quality of the power and so they pick purple or blue ones that on their own are not weak but not as strong as a combination of powers. Once i learned this on my Unholy DK i honestly just blasted through them.

An example,
White power, reduce CD of lichborne by 10 seconds every time you use death strike. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=332573/lich-robes
Green power, monstrosity something, increase the damage you do by 15% if you heal a target with death coil. This stacks twice on base level. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=332001...ous-concoction (This means if you use lichborn you can deathcoil yourself twice for 1 min buff of 30% dmg and speed you can even get multiples of these!)
and blue power, Lichborn buff that auto hits you with deathcoils on usage. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=333471/undertakers-crown

I mean get a few of those and you're a monster. Doing 10K+ DPS, there are more good ones out there that are not epic another, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=333067/rune-hunter This makes you find Runepowers (weapon enchants) from Phyl's, i mean you can have every single enchant that is DK unique, very strong.

Honestly learn your anima powers and learn to bide your time the first three floors to build something strong to beat the boss.

Also another unpopular opinion, whoever said that the first time you did these you have to clear them without issue? This is based on a game genre that actually is based around repeated attempts (roguelike). There is nothing wrong in games that require a bit of trial and error.
I mean, you all know what wowhead.com is right? If you fail at an attempt and are completely clueless how to tackle it, go to that site and simply look up the boss, read the comments and you'll have a big chance someone just shared a working strategy that you can use the next time if your anima selection is all over the place.

[schwarzkopf]

If you can't figure out a way to beat an end boss with that information

So - if my mage can't solo a raid boss in CN it is me? Well - today I learned that mages can tank.

I get offered almost NO single target options for the last boss, the last bosses kill me in 2 or 3 strikes ... you are objectively wrong.

In addition you completely missed the point - the trivial 5 floors leading up to an impossible boss means the tuning is off ... that's just logical.

[Toppy]

I should note this is a much larger problem in Endless where bosses can do 50K+ damage in a single, normal, hit. With most classes having no way around it.

[schwarzkopf]

get powers that target end boss

That would be wonderful ... if I was ever offered them. Mostly I get exploding mawrats, AoE increase, trivial health increases etc etc.

Out of 35 power choices - I normally get offered 2 that are useful against the last boss, and I take them all.

If there was a menu of all the powers I could pick - then of course I'd get the last boss down, but there isn't and the chances of getting enough to kill it are close to zero.

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I should note this is a much larger problem in Endless where bosses can do 50K+ damage in a single, normal, hit. With most classes having no way around it.

That's just side effect of "This is essentially 3 Torghasts back to back to back. First difficulty is like layer 1, Second round is like layer 6, Third is harder than an 8." - describing layer 1 of endless.

[TbouncerT]

All of the end bosses (each 6 level chunk) are literally examples.

You do trivial content to get to them, and then the bosses are 100x harder than anything you've touched before.

It doesn't matter if you can 'get them down' because you are lucky enough to be able to tank or heal yourself - they are overtuned in comparison to the 5 floors leading up to them.

It also doesn't help that 95% of the anima powers created are useless against the end boss, meaning there is little chance of having anything more than your normal dps against them at the end.

Sounds more like a player problem. Most if not all things prior to bosses are trivial. People nowadays don't want a challenge, if there is one they cry overtuned, nerf, etc! Also, saying that 95% of the anima powers are useless is dumb. People need to rethink how they approach things with their class/spec than what they are used to. Torghast isn't going to play the same as a M+, Raid, PvP, etc. They all are playstyle unique to each one (there are some overlap). There are also other factors like possibly you're under geared, wrong talents, not using CDs properly, pulled too many (non-boss), lag, wrong spot, you name it. It took my 3 man group 5 minutes to kill the last boss on Layer 8, but we did it and in a one shot (1 person did die toward the end) and it was fun (P&H Pally + Rogue). If people spent less time QQ over something being hard for them and spent the time learning and figuring out better strats, this wouldn't much of an issue.

NabyBro and Acidbaron also pointed out some good things as well.

[schwarzkopf]

Sounds more like player problem.

How on earth do I get to make the last boss 100x harder than the previous content ... am I suddenly a wow dev ?

Oh - and suddenly it becomes trivial again if I take a tank with me.

WoW ... amazing how much of a wow dev I am.

It is - objectively speaking, a tuning problem with the last bosses (or with the previous 5 floor) - that's just straight common sense.

[Gaidax]

That would be wonderful ... if I was ever offered them. Mostly I get exploding mawrats, AoE increase, trivial health increases etc etc.

Out of 35 power choices - I normally get offered 2 that are useful against the last boss, and I take them all.

If there was a menu of all the powers I could pick - then of course I'd get the last boss down, but there isn't and the chances of getting enough to kill it are close to zero.

HP increases are an excellent way to have an super easy run. I had a run where I was getting rubbish floor 1 and part of 2, so I was just fuck it and started pumping HP ones, which were dropping. They might be trivial alone, but when you start stacking them... oboi.

Ended up with 250k HP, by which point your cat can kill boss, because it simply can't take out 250k HP player.

The point is - you really, REALLY, never get to the point where you absolutely have nothing. You might not have best powers and I had these runs, but you definitely get enough to do the job.

[exochaft]

This is more of an issue when it comes to powers you get than the bosses themselves. Compared to many beta iterations, these live Torghast bosses are literally a joke with any power combination you get. However, not all classes are created equal when it comes to powers, as some get mainly throughput powers... and some get mostly utility powers that do nothing for your ability to kill faster/harder. So the bosses (and Torghast itself) can be harder or slower depending upon your class, but the relative difficulty is still pretty low.

All that being said, most of the mechanics seems designed with melee in mind, as either the mechanics favor DPS while moving or having a short CD interrupt. This is why pet classes and tanks have a fairly easy time in Torghast. And as someone else said, the last boss tends to be way easier to deal with than some single/double-elite packs on random floors, especially after Blizz allowed CC/interrupts past 10 stacks of the damage buff the elites get.

[mojusk]

torghast certainly has revealed the skill difference within the wow playerbase. some blast through the whole thing bored to death of how easy it is.. and then theres players like OP who claim it to be impossible.

[schwarzkopf]

HP increases are an excellent way to have an super easy run.

Not really - making it so the boss takes 3 hits to kill me instead of 2 changes little.

The best health pool I've had selecting ALL available health increases was 55k ...

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torghast certainly has revealed the skill difference within the wow playerbase.

LOL - it actually revealed the logic deficit in many forum posters more likely.

[Shedaar]

Please provide literally any examples.
I've yet to see a torghast boss (as bear, resto, or boomy) that has mechanics I don't have something in my toolkit to beat

10 stacks after which they basically one shot you.
Get own3d.

[schwarzkopf]

it to be impossible.

Because - surprise, for some class/spec combos it is trivial - for others it is impossible.

That's entirely the problem.

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10 stacks after which they basically one shot you.
Get own3d.

Yeah - the advice on how to do Synod on wowhead is .. "you can't solo him" ...