If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Teriz]

Romanticised 19th century (industrial revolution) technology:

That’s nice. That isn’t the Warcraft Tinker though.

Not this Power Ranger, Iron Man, Transformers bullshit of yours:

Yeah, none of that is the Warcraft Tinker either. We draw the mech concept from the Robo Goblin ultimate ability, which allows the Tinker to pilot a mech. This has seemingly evolved to the mechs piloted by Mekkatorque and Gazlowe.





This is why it’s important to have unique/specific abilities, and hero concepts for future WoW classes. It prevents us from going off the rails and bringing in stuff that’s non-Warcraft related.

[VinceVega]

I just love to look in this thread from time to time just to see the same people (and not many other) advocating for the tinker class.

This is getting better than the whole high elf thread tbh.

The fanatisiscm with whcih people try to argue for that class or try to use arguments on people who think (kinda rightfully) that the class is just way to childish and does not fit more in the game than just as an occasional comic reliev by an NPC, who then turn around and say that the arguments don't mattter and just because it is in the game does not merrit a class in itself, and than in turn get countless botched polls and whatnot throw at their heads is just hilarious.

And that is a cycle going on for 125 pages and it is not even the first thread where people talk about it.

For the record: I think both tinker and bard are stupid concepts and don't belong in the game as a player class. If i had to choose i would say no class and rather 4th or 3rd 5th spec for the classes. Everyone gets one more. Even druids.

If i HAD to choose, necromancer shadowhunter fit the game way better than anything else. And it is not my job to make the different from other existing classes. That is Blizz part. Most classes are basically the same anyway with a different colortheme. (warlock, mage, Moonkin, Shadowpriest or warrior, paladin, rouge and DH to an extend) The only unique class in the game is hunter probably. So why not make a mage who uses death magic. Doesn't even have to use raise undead. Could just use maw magic. We allready use every other incredibly evil power in the playbook. So ltes thorw in that sweet sweet bondage magic.

[Teriz]

I just love to look in this thread from time to time just to see the same people (and not many other) advocating for the tinker class.

This is getting better than the whole high elf thread tbh.

The fanatisiscm with whcih people try to argue for that class or try to use arguments on people who think (kinda rightfully) that the class is just way to childish and does not fit more in the game than just as an occasional comic reliev by an NPC, who then turn around and say that the arguments don't mattter and just because it is in the game does not merrit a class in itself, and than in turn get countless botched polls and whatnot throw at their heads is just hilarious.

What exactly makes the Tinker concept "childish"?

And that is a cycle going on for 125 pages and it is not even the first thread where people talk about it.

For the record: I think both tinker and bard are stupid concepts and don't belong in the game as a player class. If i had to choose i would say no class and rather 4th or 3rd 5th spec for the classes. Everyone gets one more. Even druids.

Too "stupid" to be in the game as a player class, but not "stupid" enough to be actually IN the game, not "stupid" enough to be a Warcraft hero concept from both WC3 and HotS, and not "stupid" enough to be the hero character base of three playable races?

If i HAD to choose, necromancer shadowhunter fit the game way better than anything else. And it is not my job to make the different from other existing classes. That is Blizz part. Most classes are basically the same anyway with a different colortheme. (warlock, mage, Moonkin, Shadowpriest or warrior, paladin, rouge and DH to an extend) The only unique class in the game is hunter probably. So why not make a mage who uses death magic. Doesn't even have to use raise undead. Could just use maw magic. We allready use every other incredibly evil power in the playbook. So ltes thorw in that sweet sweet bondage magic.

Ah, so you want more classes that use Shadow magic despite the game already having a glut of shadow-based specs. I wish I could say I was surprised.

[VinceVega]

What exactly makes the Tinker concept "childish"?



Too "stupid" to be in the game as a player class, but not "stupid" enough to be actually IN the game, not "stupid" enough to be a Warcraft hero concept from both WC3 and HotS, and not "stupid" enough to be the hero character base of three playable races?



Ah, so you want more classes that use Shadow magic despite the game already having a glut of shadow-based specs. I wish I could say I was surprised.

Childish because it is.... i think it explained myself before somewhere... not doing it again
Yes too stupid. It is comic relieve nothing more. Was it maybe something else in WC3? Maybe but who the hell cares. We are so extremly past WC before wow that it does not really matter anymore. And Hots can litterally do whatever they want. It has no bearing wahtsoever on what happens in wow.
Yeah rather that, than the bullshit goblins and gnomes stuff next to no one actually cares about.
I think i take nearly everything over the tinker stuff. It does not fit wow. And don't come again with the bullshit "it has always been in wow" YES it HAS. I don't say it wasn't.

Like i said. fine for the ocassional funny stick to lighten the mood. Should never be an integral part of the players experience.Could just open all classes for everyon up at that point because fuck it. Demon Hunter tauren? Why not. It is funny. haha lol xd... *sigh* Make Murlocs a playbale race. Make Hogger a class. "What are you?" "I am a hogger! I am legit because i am in the game since forever and i am in hots!" I know. That is overexaggeration but you know what i mean and what my point of view is i hope.

Also what does it matter, that there are classes that uses shadowmagic allready? What exactly would tinkers use? Throwing screws? Or basically also just fire and lightning? And they heal by putting you into a stasis pot for month? Or hitting you really hard with bandages?
You can explain much by with magic. If you bring engineering into it it gets more difficult because you lost your deus ex machina. I can by the healing classes healing with magic. I cannot buy some mech slapping me until i am whole again.

Also mechs... *barf*

NOTIFICATION: That is my opinion. I get that you have another. It will not change mine as your arguments are not very convincing and the concept is still very very childish, whimsical and sorry stupid. Always has been. Always will. Even blizzard uses it that way. The whole zone of mechagon was a huge stan and laurel movie with "kaploink" "pling" "puff" "kapow" nices. Funny maybe. Good for one REALLY inconcesquentail zone. Sure why not. A whole class that will shape wow into a complete new direction like DHs did? No mam.

[Revamp Man]

maybe in other media.
Warcraft not really. I never seen a true bard in warcraft and since WC2 it always leaned on a little steam punk.

in classic shaman and even paladins were more primarily support thus a bard class in a game where we have magical sounds fits

warcraft might have always had steam punk in it but we have seen minimal and i mean minimal advancement with most of it being in WoD and bfa

[Teriz]

Childish because it is.... i think it explained myself before somewhere... not doing it again

Well no, you just said it was childish and left it at that. Now that I know it's just your opinion based on no real reasoning, I fully understand your position now.

Yes too stupid. It is comic relieve nothing more. Was it maybe something else in WC3? Maybe but who the hell cares. We are so extremly past WC before wow that it does not really matter anymore.

We're very far past WC3 yet the last expansion class (Demon Hunters) released 4 years ago originated in WC3?

And Hots can litterally do whatever they want. It has no bearing wahtsoever on what happens in wow.

We got multiple NPCs and classes in WoW who have new abilities that originated in HotS.

What exactly would tinkers use? Throwing screws? Or basically also just fire and lightning? And they heal by putting you into a stasis pot for month? Or hitting you really hard with bandages?
You can explain much by with magic. If you bring engineering into it it gets more difficult because you lost your deus ex machina. I can by the healing classes healing with magic. I cannot buy some mech slapping me until i am whole again.

If you want to know what Tinkers could do as a class, all you need to do is look at the abilities from the WC3 and HotS Tinker heroes. They range from mech piloting, to Gravity weapons, to laser beams, to sticky bombs, to a variety of robotic summons. In short, something different than what's currently in the class lineup, like the glut of Shadow-based specs.

Also mechs... *barf*

NOTIFICATION: That is my opinion. I get that you have another. It will not change mine as your arguments are not very convincing and the concept is still very very childish, whimsical and sorry stupid. Always has been. Always will. Even blizzard uses it that way. The whole zone of mechagon was a huge stan and laurel movie with "kaploink" "pling" "puff" "kapow" nices. Funny maybe. Good for one REALLY inconcesquentail zone. Sure why not. A whole class that will shape wow into a complete new direction like DHs did? No mam.

Yeah, we get it, you're just expressing your opinion. While you're doing that I'd like to point you to a poll on this forum of a Necromancer vs Tinkers;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-for-the-game

Yeah, I was pretty surprised as well....

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in classic shaman and even paladins were more primarily support thus a bard class in a game where we have magical sounds fits

warcraft might have always had steam punk in it but we have seen minimal and i mean minimal advancement with most of it being in WoD and bfa

Actually we had a rather large boost in the theme during MoP with Siegecrafter Blackfuse.

[shoc]

Well no, you just said it was childish and left it at that. Now that I know it's just your opinion based on no real reasoning, I fully understand your position now.





We're very far past WC3 yet the last expansion class (Demon Hunters) released 4 years ago originated in WC3?




We got multiple NPCs and classes in WoW who have new abilities that originated in HotS.




If you want to know what Tinkers could do as a class, all you need to do is look at the abilities from the WC3 and HotS Tinker heroes. They range from mech piloting, to Gravity weapons, to laser beams, to sticky bombs, to a variety of robotic summons. In short, something different than what's currently in the class lineup, like the glut of Shadow-based specs.



Yeah, we get it, you're just expressing your opinion. While you're doing that I'd like to point you to a poll on this forum of a Necromancer vs Tinkers;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-for-the-game

Yeah, I was pretty surprised as well....

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Actually we had a rather large boost in the theme during MoP with Siegecrafter Blackfuse.

Nobody mentions the Lightforged Warframes. Lightforged Draenei Tinkers would be a no-brainer. So are Dark Iron Tinkers. Mag'har would have their own Iron Horde equivalents.

[Teriz]

Nobody mentions the Lightforged Warframes. Lightforged Draenei Tinkers would be a no-brainer. So are Dark Iron Tinkers. Mag'har would have their own Iron Horde equivalents.

And the Nightborne;



Found an artist rendition of a Nightborne mech;

[Triceron]

And the Nightborne;

Yep, plenty of races that could be Tinkers.

[Teriz]

Yep, plenty of races that could be Tinkers.

Yeah, fine. I can tolerate it I suppose.

[Triceron]

Make Hogger a class. "What are you?" "I am a hogger! I am legit because i am in the game since forever and i am in hots!"

[Ielenia]

Add a musical sound effect to the guitar. What's the difference then?

What is a Bard beyond the musical theme?

What is a warrior beyond the melee combat theme?

Honestly, I find "music inspires allies because it's music" a lot more intriguing than "music inspires allies because it's magic." It really dilutes what makes Bards unique if their key driver is just another brand of magic.

The bard's music has always been "another brand of magic".

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We're not talking about lore. We're talking about how Blizzard clearly took the concept of Pandaria, Chen Stormstout, and the Pandaren Brewmaster and created the Monk class from it.

I'd argue that Blizzard created the monk class based on popular media's depiction of the monk, and then added the brewmaster into it, not the other way around.

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It doesn't really matter what he was back in the early 2000's. People wanted playable Pandaren, people wanted playable Brewmasters. The Monk is just an extension of that.

The Monk class was formulated around the Brewmaster concept. Its entire theme owes homage to this, and it expands on it into other aspects and subthemes such as Tea brews, Mistweaving, August Celestials and Chi. Overall it's still packaged back into one unified concept.

Same if we consider Shamans and how Totems are now associated to them, it doesn't matter if it wasn't directly tied to it in Warcraft 3, what matters is that it's tied there now and has a retroactive association to all Shaman lore. Or DK's being able to use Frost, it doesn't matter if Arthas wasn't using it back in Warcraft 3, the lore we have now is retroactively applied and we know that Frost is a part of the core DK identity even if it isn't explicit.

Chen is a Monk because Blizzard deemed all Brewmasters a part of the greater Monk class. It effectively doesn't retcon any previous history, it's expanding lore that we didn't know before, much like how Kalimdor and Night Elves existed in the world before we were aware. It is a part of it's history now, because Mist of Pandaria explained it to be so. Mists lore says the Pandarens developed Martial Arts techniques to defeat the Mogu, those techniques were honed and perfected through by the Pandaren Monks, and Chen is a Brewmaster; a specialized type of Monk. That's the canon that was created for the Monk class.

There are Brewmasters in the world unrelated to the Monks, like the Dark Irons or Ogre NPCs; but that's not what Chen Stormstout is. Chen is a Pandaren Brewmaster, and directly tied to the Pandaren Monk class.

Reatroactive continuity matters, if one is to claim that "X NPC is a representative for Y class in the past". And like I said to Teriz: I doubt that the monk class was designed AROUND the WC3 unit. It feels to me that they designed the class around the pop culture's depiction of the monk concept and then added the WC3 unit for flavor and flair.

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I'm unaware of humanity in our modern day of tech being able to create giant mecha suits capable of firing lasers, performing aerial combat, and commanding robotic drones to fight for them. I would consider 21st century human tech to be leaps and bounds beyond medieval tech. Wouldn't you?

Just because they don't, doesn't mean they can't. I'd argue that it's too much resource-consuming to create a "giant mecha capable of firing lasers, performing aerial combat and commanding robotic drones to fight for them" with little to no advantages. Giant mechas are nothing but giant targets. We already have drones, and we have lasers capable of incinerating flesh.

But, like I said, I think it's much cheaper and technically more efficient to just put a bullet in someone's head with a sniper rifle than having someone pilot a multi-million dollar giant mech suit.

[Triceron]

Reatroactive continuity matters, if one is to claim that "X NPC is a representative for Y class in the past". And like I said to Teriz: I doubt that the monk class was designed AROUND the WC3 unit. It feels to me that they designed the class around the pop culture's depiction of the monk concept and then added the WC3 unit for flavor and flair.

Both statements are true, actually.

They designed the Monk around Brewmasters, AND they used pop culture to depict the Monk. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

We can look at any sort of 'retcon' in this way. The Death Knight and Arthas' depiction in WoW are both based on the WC3 unit as well as other non-DK influences, such as the Lich and Dreadlord. They took scraps from the planned Necromancer and Runemaster classes and built the DK's mechanics around them. There's no singular way to look at how Blizzard chose to design the WoW DK; it's a culmination of all influences. We can't just look at this as though using Necromancer and Runemaster scraps means that WC3 was not an influence in its design.

The Monk is both based on the Brewmaster and on outside influences, it's as simple as that.

[Teriz]

Just because they don't, doesn't mean they can't. I'd argue that it's too much resource-consuming to create a "giant mecha capable of firing lasers, performing aerial combat and commanding robotic drones to fight for them" with little to no advantages. Giant mechas are nothing but giant targets. We already have drones, and we have lasers capable of incinerating flesh.

But, like I said, I think it's much cheaper and technically more efficient to just put a bullet in someone's head with a sniper rifle than having someone pilot a multi-million dollar giant mech suit.

You missed the point;

The point is that building a robot that can fly and shoot lasers and use gravity based weapons is far more advanced tech than steel traps, fragmentation bombs, and rockets, which have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years.

In other words, Hunter tech is nowhere close to Tinker tech.

[Syegfryed]

Tinker and Necromancer are 2 established classes that i can see being playable, i don't think bards have enough shit neither is that much warcraft thematic, sadly blizzard messed up with necromancers, who should totally be a shadowlands class.

i would also want, a Dragon based class, dragonsworm or something, with a dragon based race, those are cool themes not yet explored

[Revamp Man]

Nobody mentions the Lightforged Warframes. Lightforged Draenei Tinkers would be a no-brainer. So are Dark Iron Tinkers. Mag'har would have their own Iron Horde equivalents.

they were mentioned but "they arent mechs they are golems and powered by crystal tech" was the argument against them which isnt an argument

[Ielenia]

You missed the point;

Me explaining why your comparison fails is not me "missing the point".

The point is that building a robot that can fly and shoot lasers and use gravity based weapons is far more advanced tech than steel traps, fragmentation bombs, and rockets, which have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years.

How do you know how long those have existed in the Warcraft universe? How do you know how long mechs have existed in the Warcraft universe?

In other words, Hunter tech is nowhere close to Tinker tech.[/QUOTE]
And a priest's hymn magic is nowhere close to the bard's music magic. Just pointing that out.

[Teriz]

they were mentioned but "they arent mechs they are golems and powered by crystal tech" was the argument against them which isnt an argument

The LF Draenei is a mech. It even functions very similarly to what we see out of the Goblin mechs (when destroyed the pilot can leave the vehicle and continue to attack). The point is that the most likely scenario is Goblin, Gnomes, Mechagnomes, and Vulpera as the Tinker races. It simply makes the most sense. Again, if Blizzard goes against that and expands it to more races, I'm fine with that. However, I just don't see that occurring, I see them keeping the race availability extremely limited and pushing a high level of options and customizations to make up for it (mech color changes, Mech accessories, appearance mods, etc.).

That's just my opinion. You're free to believe that Blizzard will expand the concept to several races if you like.

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Me explaining why your comparison fails is not me "missing the point".

Actually it is, since what I was actually doing was comparing modern technology to medieval technology.

How do you know how long those have existed in the Warcraft universe? How do you know how long mechs have existed in the Warcraft universe?

Who cares? A mech with lasers, gravity weapons, and energy weapons is more advanced than a steel trap and a fragmentation bomb regardless. If we find a Star Destroyer in the Amazon Rain Forest and it's thousands of years old, it's still more advanced than a fighter jet built two months ago.

[Ielenia]

Actually it is, since what I was actually doing was comparing modern technology to medieval technology.

You said "you don't see today's technology doing mechs that fly and shoot lasers", heavily implying that we do not know how to do those things. And I've pointed out that we do. It's just that it likely requires insurmountable amounts of money to build one, and therefore it's wholly unnecessary, when there are much cheaper and arguably more efficient ways to win a war.

Who cares? A mech with lasers, gravity weapons, and energy weapons is more advanced than a steel trap and a fragmentation bomb regardless. If we find a Star Destroyer in the Amazon Rain Forest and it's thousands of years old, it's still more advanced than a fighter jet built two months ago.

Irrelevant. You made a claim about time, so I want to see your sources for such claim. And no, your posterior does not count as a credible source.

[Your Mommy]

they were mentioned but "they arent mechs they are golems and powered by crystal tech" was the argument against them which isnt an argument

I can get behind Dark Iron tinkers. But Lightforged Draenei? No please. Most (if not all) of their "tinkering" and "inventions" require Light magic to be functional or are infused with the Light.
Tinkers should NOT be Light fanatics in order to get their kits and inventions up and running. That's like the exact opposite of what a Tinker should be.