Should TBC come with a gold wipe? Why or why not?

[ymirsson]

context, read the shit you wrote before which i quoted, if it's not too much of a hassle to digest more then 3 lines of text in a day.

i can make you read it, but i can not make you understand it, i hope you don't let me down again.

[Synical123]

context, read the shit you wrote before which i quoted, if it's not too much of a hassle to digest more then 3 lines of text in a day.

i can make you read it, but i can not make you understand it, i hope you don't let me down again.

Sure I’ll post what I quoted as if it changes anything

Seriously though lol, in one way or another that storm will come back to bite them. Got your precious 2k brought in from classic, well now you realize you have to either buy or farm 50k in order to buy anything. That or you keep up with the economy, and realize your game died 6 months in because casuals couldn’t keep up and just quit the game. Both seem a little worse than having everyone start on a levelish playing field for the doesn’t it?

I’ll break it down for you I suppose.

“Without a wipe casuals can’t keep up and the game will probably die because no one can keep up with the economy, doesn’t it sound better to just have everyone on a level playing field at the start (to save the game)”

Then you basically said “with a wipe people will quit 3 weeks in anyway because they can’t keep up”

Which is hilarious because in that same post you said

“ yes, it is unreasonable “

To someone suggesting that the “shitstorm” would be worse if the gold is carried over, and here you are fully admitting people will quit if they can’t keep up correct? And your logic came to the conclusion that with a wipe it would only take 3 weeks to get back to this spot.

I’m sorry but I think this subject is just a little... beyond you so to speak.

[ymirsson]

I’m sorry but I think this subject is just a little... beyond you so to speak.

i would try to break it down to you, but ive given up hope. just keep up hoping that someone removes your gold so you can feel free again.


edit:
this is for you, insert where necessary: /s

[Synical123]

i would try to break it down to you, but ive given up hope. just keep up hoping that someone removes your gold so you can feel free again.


edit:
this is for you, insert where necessary: /s

Lol everytime you “break something down” you just dismantle your own argument so by all means, break it down for me all you want.

[intenz]

Yes because it punishes everyone who didn't play classic. I know people will say "Well that's how it was back in the day" but that's not the point of classic. People who have established financial power will still reign supreme in TBC classic unless gold is wiped. People should be able to copy their characters over with their gear, but gold should be restricted. I think people who transfer their characters should get enough gold so that they can afford the first rank of flying, but other than that, everyone should be on the same level for the most part.

As someone who only started in very late vanilla and made a new blood elf in TBC, I don't really care if other players have thousands of gold. The game was much less P2W back then (most boes were garbage), and the only hinderance with having little gold was slower flying.

[Kralljin]

The game was much less P2W back then (most boes were garbage), and the only hinderance with having little gold was slower flying.

Considering craftable items can last you into BT and the sole limitation to acquire them is gold, that logic has a massive hole.

[poggers]

If they don't plan to handle gold and leave people with thousands then I'll just spend the next three months zg boosting people and walk into TBC with six figures.

[Naraga]

The obvious answer is No.

If my gold is at risk of being arbitrarily deleted by Blizzard, why would I put any time into grinding my own gold? If deleted I'll just buy gold the next time.

[Caliph]

Nope, not when tbc is all about static massive gold sinks that also completely alter how you play the game.

- - - Updated - - -



I've written this before so I'll try to be quick with this while still making my point.

As of right now, the average person is sitting on thousands of gold. Go into any random GDKP run and you will see people bidding 10-30 thousand gold on hot ticket items as we speak. What this means, is when hot ticket items or something that is really scarce but valuable in the AH or out in the world, that price is going to match what the 'average' player can afford.

Let me use a couple of examples. Back when classic launched, when the edge masters grieves dropped you could sell them for about 400-700g. A good price back then. You could realistically go out and farm that gold by yourself in a couple days and buy them if you were a fresh level 60. The price it goes for now is anywhere from 3-7k depending on the server. At the very start this price would have been almost IMPOSSIBLE to hit without going EXTREMELY deep into gold farming. This is also shown with how expensive prices were for items back in the real vanilla compared to today, almost everything is at least doubled if not blown through the roof. This is because of inflation and how much gold we have.

Okay I explained this to show you the issues with going into TBC with this amount of inflation.

Let's say you start the game off in TBC with no gold from classic. You hit end level. The MAIN way to make gold (at least back then) was through dailies. Dailies net you around 10ish gold (it varies) so the average person can make like 200ish gold per day off of them. Prices can be so inflated to the point where dailies are not realistically a viable way for you to farm gold now. If prices of one gem, or one primal is at 100g each, or god forbid even higher like 200g, then it is going to take you months and months of farming dailies to get to the point where you can purchase some of these items yourself.

Okay, so for a new player dailies won't be as valuable of a gold farm, so what do you do? You sell things on the AH for those crazy prices. But in order to farm these things you are going to be competing...a lot.... in order to mine/herb/farm motes you are going to have to be quick. But if you are a fresh character you know you will barely be able to afford your standard 60% flyer. Meanwhile everyone who farmed in classic is going to be sitting pretty on that 280% flyer mount.

A new player is just simply not going to be able to compete for nodes on their server flying around on a 60% speed. Not to even mention the amount of bots that will taking over the primal farms but that's a different discussion to be had.

Basically this almost suffocates a new player out of almost all of their farming capabilities simply because they didn't want to participate in a version of a game they didn't like. Dailies will be a waste of time if you can only purchase a single or even half an item a day that you need (some classes need upwards of 200-250 primals to get a full crafted set). Farming them yourself will also be hell moving at a staggering 220% slower flying speed. Honestly the only option to even remain relevant at that point is to buy gold illegally to get epic flyer so you can at least farm semi-decently.

Now if you wipe the gold this issue will be irrelevant until we get to a stage in the game where we are now with people running around on average of a couple thousand. But at that point, the people who wanted to play tbc will likely already be caught up enough to a point where they might have already replaced all their crafted gear and it is no longer an issue

None of this is true. I farmed in original tbc my epic flyer myself on a pvp realm without buying gold. that can and will be done again.

As for the botters they will always be there with or without a gold wipe.

the inflation argument doesn't hold water because you're denying basic market forces and economics. If it's priced too high it won't sell no matter how much you're farming or receiving from dailies. I will not pay 200g per primal or any such non sensical price and the price will come down. it might last for a couple weeks per new tier but for an extended period of time. it's been the case for 16 years in wow and you can't deny it or obviate it in any way.

There is no good reason for a gold wipe economically. If you want to say do it for equality, humanity or for johnny then go ahead but it doesn't do anything for the economy.

I farmed my gold and i'm not letting you criminals steal it. wipe gold and i'm out for good.

[Kralljin]

None of this is true. I farmed in original tbc my epic flyer myself on a pvp realm without buying gold. that can and will be done again.

The post didn't claim it's impossible, but somebody without epic flying is most certainly at a severe disadvantage compared to someone that has epic flying, which affects the amount of materials he's farming within a given timeframe and the price they're going.

I will not pay 200g per primal or any such non sensical price and the price will come down.

But the people that have hundreds of thousands of gold will..?

It's very silly to claim somebody denies "basic market forces and economics" when supply and demand sets the price, as long as people keep buying it in droves (simply because they need it), the prices will go up, especially in an economy where some people have very deep pockets.
If some people can no longer afford, that's one thing, but as long as someone else can afford it, the prices will remain pretty high.

Disregarding the AH Moguls that obviously love to create artificial scarcity in order to keep prices up, which naturally need a lot of gold right off the bat to do so.

I farmed my gold and i'm not letting you criminals steal it.

Calling people that advocate for a gold reset "criminals" and accuse them of "stealing gold" just shows that you don't seem to have any hard arguments but simply dislike the concept based on your feelings.

[Gsara]

With close to 200,000g myself, I voted to limit it. Considering armor crafting professions and weapon crafted items are bis or next to bis for a lot of classes the ah is going to be insane. Plus with the server sizes farming your own mats, even with layering, is going to take a long time with out the ah.

Of course if they dont limit or wipe, the gold sellers will still be able to sell to the people that buy, so there's that I guess.

[czarek]

Imo limited gold. But dunno that is valuable when u can buy piles of stuff before just to stack more gold after TBC launch. Gold farmers or gbid raiders boosters etc. got piles of gold atm. Wipe could be a bit paiful but to keep NO CHANGES idea there should be no exceptations to this. All gold go with you.

[muto]

TBC should be on its own servers.

[Caliph]

The post didn't claim it's impossible, but somebody without epic flying is most certainly at a severe disadvantage compared to someone that has epic flying, which affects the amount of materials he's farming within a given timeframe and the price they're going.

But the people that have hundreds of thousands of gold will..?

It's very silly to claim somebody denies "basic market forces and economics" when supply and demand sets the price, as long as people keep buying it in droves (simply because they need it), the prices will go up, especially in an economy where some people have very deep pockets.
If some people can no longer afford, that's one thing, but as long as someone else can afford it, the prices will remain pretty high.

Disregarding the AH Moguls that obviously love to create artificial scarcity in order to keep prices up, which naturally need a lot of gold right off the bat to do so.

Calling people that advocate for a gold reset "criminals" and accuse them of "stealing gold" just shows that you don't seem to have any hard arguments but simply dislike the concept based on your feelings.

Having to farm with no epic mount on a pvp realm is also disadvantageous yet we were still able to make gold and get the materials we wanted.

And i have tens of thousands of gold as well from farming, trading, raiding but i still won't pay ludicrous prices for mats. And there'll be more like me who won't pay those ridiculous prices. After all we don't all have hundreds of thousands of gold nor are we all stupid.

What argument did you make? Supply and demand stops at a certain price especially when you can go out and farm it yourself. And AH moguls are in vanilla now yet we still don't pay their ridiculous prices.

I think you're discounting that all of this is currently occurring in vanilla and there's no one perturbed with everyone having gold. There's simply no reason to wipe gold. There's no disadvantage with some having epic flying while others are plebs. this has been happening in wow for 14 years.

There's no reason to wipe gold except to upset the player base.

[Kralljin]

After all we don't all have hundreds of thousands of gold nor are we all stupid.

But others have..?
Prices won't just magically drop because "everybody decides to not buy it", that's not how it works.

What argument did you make? Supply and demand stops at a certain price especially when you can go out and farm it yourself.

Sure, they will stop, at absolutely insane prices.
It's not like you get everyone to agree "At X we stop buying them!", they continue to rise as long as someone buys it, which doesn't stop at a point where most are still willing to afford it.

Disregarding that "farming it yourself" is going to extremely difficult when those farmspots will be absolutely packed.

And AH moguls are in vanilla now yet we still don't pay their ridiculous prices.

I'd say 140g for a Black lotus is ridiculous.

And here are talking about the reagent for a consumable that is not even required for most of the content in Classic, in TBC we are talking about items (which don't vanish after 2h like a Flask) that can last you into Black temple.

Imagine how the prices for Arcanite bars would have looked without DM:E, where we have been at ~100g at certain points within Classic, Primals are going to be on another level because straight up everyone will want them.

I think you're discounting that all of this is currently occurring in vanilla and there's no one perturbed with everyone having gold.

Difference is that since Wotlk, craftable items have lost lot of value, whereas in TBC, they are damn good.

There's no disadvantage with some having epic flying while others are plebs. this has been happening in wow for 14 years.

Taking into account that the price of epic flying has been nerfed, there is much more passive gold income, while there are less valueable craftable items & less consumables involved, this changes the equation a lot.

Nevermind that not having epic flying when you want to farm something is a disadvantage, no matter how you twist and turn it.

[Xykotic]

While there is good reason to do there, there is also good reasons no to.

For example, that people will lose their shit and quit. Imagine if you spent 2 years farming farming 100k, then it just gets wiped. That's a lot of effort just flushed in the toilet.

So while I personally think the game would be better, it would anger too many people to actually happen.

[Relapses]

Until Blizzard confirms whether there will be new fresh servers I maintain the only thing that can save TBC's economy from an implosion due to inflation is a Classic WoW token.

[hulkgor]

Until Blizzarf confirms whether there will be new fresh servers

Its pretty much confirmed at this point there won't be fresh servers (for TBC, since they'll keep a few at Classic) with the :

Choose Your Era – Prior to Burning Crusade Classic’s release, WoW Classic players can decide whether to advance each of their characters to the Burning Crusade era with the rest of their realm, or to continue playing the original WoW Classic content on new Classic Era servers.

Very low chance the leak is fake at this point.

Personally, i feel like a wipe\reset\whatever would be disrespectful towards people that played and invested time into Classic, expecting TBC.

[Zka]

No. This problem is sooo overstated. It's almost irrelevant how much gold people have.

[hulkgor]

Even a new player can actually get his epic flying mount vastly faster, just grab some herbs\ores and sell those at inflated prices.

After a few weeks it will balance itself out, who cares.

It's not that big of a deal.