Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[Kathandira]

Except the Peaceful Protest never turned into Riots until the very people these Alt-Right are blaming for this Imaginary Antifa that was part of their bullshit showed up dressed in all black claiming to be with BLM did this shit.


These are the same people, because they used the exact same kinds of methods. It has Always Been Alt-Right White Supremacist.

Indeed, the true riots in seattle began when tear gas was deployed on citizens who were sitting in protest outside the courthouse who were protesting injustice against people being murdered in the streets because of the color of their skin. That attack from the police is what really kicked everything into high gear.

Yesterday's treasonist attack on the capitol was due to their candidate lost an election.

There is a huge difference in the motive. And a bigger difference in the way it went down.

[Nurasu]

I'm kind of uncomfortable framing all BLM protests as mostly peaceful and this one a full on insurrection. That messaging basically trains us that the Capitol is off limits. You're free to protest, but do it over there. Don't actually come near those at the top who deign to allow you to protest. Obviously these people are woefully mislead by an incompetent fuckwad, but the day may come when something similar is the only way to finally achieve economic or racial parity in this country.

[Ivanstone]

One observation I have is that main faces on this forum are more or less calling close to half of America Nazis (or implying/blaming), read, Trump voters. This obviously translates into what you noticed. Disagree on something, get called right winger, Nazi, racist, you name it.
Not sure how with that approach nation can heal, but oh well.
P.S.
Incoming funny comments.

Ok, here's a funny comment.

They tried this in 1865. You know what happened? 155 years of bullshit culminating with a bunch of dimwitted drunks invading congress while waving confederate flags.

How about we call a racist what they are and then treat them as such?

[Endus]

Care to share a link? Maybe they need to be arrested for treason.

Just to scratch an itch that's kind of irksome, I keep seeing the word "treason" bandied about. Here's the legal definition, in the USA;

§2381. Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

The important bit is the part I put in bold.

Treason has to involve either outright war against the USA (not just domestic terror attacks), or working on behalf of the USA's enemies and supporting their cause (not a factor in a domestic concern).

The architects of the Civil War were traitors because they actually levied war against the USA, and the Confederacy was an enemy to the United States, both.

These chucklefucks aren't (ostensibly, at least) working for another entity, they're trying to "save their country". Their actions also don't remotely qualify as a "war".

Which isn't to say they're innocent. I'm quibbling over semantics. They're seditionists and insurrectionists. Those are also crimes.

§2383. Rebellion or insurrection
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

§2384. Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

It's a small distinction, but one that matters. Don't give the MAGA nuts the semantic excuse of being technically correct on the particular flavor of crime they're committing.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Indeed, the true riots in seattle began when tear gas was deployed on citizens who were sitting in protest outside the courthouse who were protesting injustice against people being murdered in the streets because of the color of their skin. That attack from the police is what really kicked everything into high gear.

Yesterday's treasonist attack on the capitol was due to their candidate lost an election.

There is a huge difference in the motive. And a bigger difference in the way it went down.

True don't get me wrong.

Protesting can be annoying, ITS NEVER OK to destroy peoples shit or steal. EVER!

But we do have ways to catch those people EASILY especially in large cities, there, are laws to bring them to pay for that, and insurance.


Stuff can be replaced, peoples lives can't, I rather people target stuff than people, but I would much much rather have them simply be annoying.


I am more than happy to take the long way home if it means people even if I don't agree with want to simply raise their voices to be heard.



And by that I don't mean by saying Fuck the Jews, Blacks, White People etc.. Threatening peoples lives isn't speech it's active hate.

[Ripster42]

I'm kind of uncomfortable framing all BLM protests as mostly peaceful and this one a full on insurrection. That messaging basically trains us that the Capitol is off limits. You're free to protest, but do it over there. Don't actually come near those at the top who deign to allow you to protest. Obviously these people are woefully mislead by an incompetent fuckwad, but the day may come when something similar is the only way to finally achieve economic or racial parity in this country.

No one cares. They were trying to interrupt the count of electoral votes. They were trying to prevent the next president of the US from taking office. Spare me the false equivalency. That wasn't a protest.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/SenJeffMerkley/s...39504528498688

So...what's the penalty for stealing a government laptop that likely has some level of classified information on it?

And these fuckin intellectual giants tried to literally break into an unlocked room.

They didn't bring their best. They didn't bring their brightest. Some, I don't assume are good people.

Man, it's a good thing all these good mostly white people followed the law. Otherwise the cops may have had to get violent!

- - - Updated - - -

I'm kind of uncomfortable framing all BLM protests as mostly peaceful and this one a full on insurrection.

Let me how many BLM protests breached the Capitol building of any state, or of the federal government. Let me know how many BLM protests occupied the Senate and House floors and stole podiums, laptops, and other government materials.

That messaging basically trains us that the Capitol is off limits.

The Capitol building? Yeah, you're god-damned fuckin right it motherfucking is. You see those old pictures of the disabled advocates literally being carried out of the building with oxygen tanks and electric wheelchairs? Yeah, that's what fuckin happens if you are there protesting illegally, even for a good cause like disability advocacy.

You're free to protest, but do it over there.

Yes, quite literally! Which is perfectly legal. Just as you can't protest, say, in the Situation Room. Or the Oval Office.

Don't actually come near those at the top who deign to allow you to protest.

It's not the occupants, but the locations themselves and the significance and symbolism they hold.

THEY LITERALLY STORMED THE FUCKING CAPITOL BUILDING, MY DUDE. NOT A FUCKIN MCDONALDS OR A LOCAL POLICE PRESINCT. NOT REMOTELY THE SAME.

Obviously these people are woefully mislead by an incompetent fuckwad, but the day may come when something similar is the only way to finally achieve economic or racial parity in this country.

Ok, and if it does, great! But this wasn't aimed at achieving those ends, but rather achieving the antithesis of those ends.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'm kind of uncomfortable framing all BLM protests as mostly peaceful and this one a full on insurrection. That messaging basically trains us that the Capitol is off limits. You're free to protest, but do it over there. Don't actually come near those at the top who deign to allow you to protest. Obviously these people are woefully mislead by an incompetent fuckwad, but the day may come when something similar is the only way to finally achieve economic or racial parity in this country.

Trying to get economic or racial equality though insurrection is so laughably stupid why would you ever think it has a hope of ever working or that you should defend other insurrection‘S to safe guard the awful idea?

[Thekri]

https://twitter.com/SenJeffMerkley/s...39504528498688

So...what's the penalty for stealing a government laptop that likely has some level of classified information on it?

And these fuckin intellectual giants tried to literally break into an unlocked room.

They didn't bring their best. They didn't bring their brightest. Some, I don't assume are good people.

Man, it's a good thing all these good mostly white people followed the law. Otherwise the cops may have had to get violent!

That Laptop should not have anything classified on it. If it did, that would be a crime. Laptops with classified information are marked with Red labels (Or blue for NATO Secret), and are stored behind double locks, typically in safes. They are certainly not left on desks.

However, there is CERTAINLY confidential information on that laptop, it is certainly either Federal Property or possibly the personal property of the senator, and stealing either of those is a crime. Then there are additional crimes for breaking and entering, trespassing on federal property, vandalism, etc, etc, etc. Certainly plenty there for a prosecutor to throw the book at them, and they should.

[Endus]

One observation I have is that main faces on this forum are more or less calling close to half of America Nazis (or implying/blaming), read, Trump voters. This obviously translates into what you noticed. Disagree on something, get called right winger, Nazi, racist, you name it.
Not sure how with that approach nation can heal, but oh well.

This is just tone policing.

You skip right over trying to argue that the labels in question are not entirely valid and reasonable to apply, and get right to how unpleasant the terms are.

Frankly, I'm a hell of a lot more concerned with someone pushing Nazi-type rhetoric in support of an insurrection against the legitimately-elected government of the nation, than I am that said individual is upset that they're accurately being called a Nazi shitbag.

How does the nation heal from this? It can't heal while those people are proud of their views and face no consequences. Their views are antithetical to said healing. They are the disease that needs to be healed. That healing cannot happen while they're still out there spewing their abusive horseshit.

No, you do not have the "right" to express such views and not face persecution for doing so. You're free to stop being an abusive dipshit if you want that persecution to stop.

Funny, one time I can agree with you. I remember someone in the general police shootings thread pointed out to Endus the statistics of Canada regardings cops and natives. Said statistics were not nice at all.

And, like there, I'll point out that I've always openly acknowledged that Canada's history with our First Nations is problematic and peppered with atrocities. It's something Canadians are, largely, deeply embarrassed and horrified about. But it's also something we've admitted is wrong and which we're actively trying to stamp out and make reparations for.

This is an attempt at a "gotcha" for shit I've never denied, and which is an openly-acknowledged fact.

[SidFwuff]

I'm kind of uncomfortable framing all BLM protests as mostly peaceful and this one a full on insurrection. That messaging basically trains us that the Capitol is off limits. You're free to protest, but do it over there. Don't actually come near those at the top who deign to allow you to protest. Obviously these people are woefully mislead by an incompetent fuckwad, but the day may come when something similar is the only way to finally achieve economic or racial parity in this country.

This wasn't a protest though. They were attempting (and succeeded temporarily) to prevent the certification of Electoral Votes. You don't need to compare this to BLM- you can also compare it to the anti-mask protests in Michigan where they entered the Statehouse with guns (legally) and protested from the balconies.

While there was some suggestion that bringing guns was intimidation...it was a protest. When you instead ignore police who inform you you're trespassing and intentionally chase elected officials out of the chambers to shut down Congress from doing its job- that's no longer a protest.

There have been pro-Trump protests in DC before- some even turned violent. You could compare those to BLM protests, I suppose.

Yesterday was something else entirely though.

[Thekri]

I'm kind of uncomfortable framing all BLM protests as mostly peaceful and this one a full on insurrection. That messaging basically trains us that the Capitol is off limits. You're free to protest, but do it over there. Don't actually come near those at the top who deign to allow you to protest. Obviously these people are woefully mislead by an incompetent fuckwad, but the day may come when something similar is the only way to finally achieve economic or racial parity in this country.

If they had gathered in front of the Capital and yelled hateful things, that would be fine. I would fully respect their right to protest, and their right not to get tear gassed and beaten. If they wanted to gather in Lafayette Square, I would support their right not to be driven out so an obese idiot could take a photo op in front of a Church.

But they didn't do that. They stormed the capital building, vandalized it, and stole things. They drove Congress out of session and into hiding. That isn't a protest, and it isn't something that any BLM protest ever did anything like.

[Nurasu]

https://twitter.com/SenJeffMerkley/s...39504528498688

So...what's the penalty for stealing a government laptop that likely has some level of classified information on it?

And these fuckin intellectual giants tried to literally break into an unlocked room.

They didn't bring their best. They didn't bring their brightest. Some, I don't assume are good people.

Man, it's a good thing all these good mostly white people followed the law. Otherwise the cops may have had to get violent!

- - - Updated - - -



Let me how many BLM protests breached the Capitol building of any state, or of the federal government. Let me know how many BLM protests occupied the Senate and House floors and stole podiums, laptops, and other government materials.



The Capitol building? Yeah, you're god-damned fuckin right it motherfucking is. You see those old pictures of the disabled advocates literally being carried out of the building with oxygen tanks and electric wheelchairs? Yeah, that's what fuckin happens if you are there protesting illegally, even for a good cause like disability advocacy.



Yes, quite literally! Which is perfectly legal. Just as you can't protest, say, in the Situation Room. Or the Oval Office.



It's not the occupants, but the locations themselves and the significance and symbolism they hold.

THEY LITERALLY STORMED THE FUCKING CAPITOL BUILDING, MY DUDE. NOT A FUCKIN MCDONALDS OR A LOCAL POLICE PRESINCT. NOT REMOTELY THE SAME.



Ok, and if it does, great! But this wasn't aimed at achieving those ends, but rather achieving the antithesis of those ends.

I mostly agree, except that they were so disorganized. They didn't have an end goal. They didn't even know where the hell they were going. Like you already alluded, the majority of these people are freakin dumb. I just don't see how it's the darkest day in American democracy that capital police were caught off guard and people got into where they shouldn't have been able to.

[starlord]

i bet the magas think trump will pardon them, that's why they were taking selfies etc.

- - - Updated - - -

I mostly agree, except that they were so disorganized. They didn't have an end goal. They didn't even know where the hell they were going. Like you already alluded, the majority of these people are freakin dumb. I just don't see how it's the darkest day in American democracy that capital police were caught off guard and people got into where they shouldn't have been able to.

what do you mean, they weren't organized, they had tshirts and had been talking about it for weeks apparently.

[Edge-]

I mostly agree, except that they were so disorganized. They didn't have an end goal.

No to the former, yes to the latter.

https://www.propublica.org/article/c...e-werent-ready

These traitors spent weeks planning yesterdays riot and attempted insurrection on the internet. This wasn't some random, spontaneous event. It was a planned attack on the Capitol.

As for the latter...yeah, once they got in that's where their planning ended and they became the dog that caught the mail truck and didn't know what the fuck to do next.

Because thankfully for us, they're generally fucking retarded, have no experience with protests (which theirs wasn't), had no end goals beyond, "WE ARE ANGRY AND WANT OUR FICTION TO BE REALITY!".

Like you already alluded, the majority of these people are freakin dumb. I just don't see how it's the darkest day in American democracy that capital police were caught off guard and people got into where they shouldn't have been able to.

Again, these protest were known about since before Christmas. They were being planned, publicly on the internet, for weeks.

https://wjla.com/news/local/police-a...stop-the-steal

They were arresting Trump supporters for bringing illegal guns into DC in the days leading up to Wednesday.

They weren't "caught off guard". They knew what was coming. They knew they were armed. They knew it would be angry and violent.

And they literally opened gates and let them walk into the Capitol. They took selfies with them in the Capitol building. They gave them high fives. They chit chatted with their traitor buds inside the Capitol Building.

This wasn't "poor police overwhelmed by protesters", there weren't even that fuckin many of them when you look at the wide angle shots. Capitol police simply didn't want to fight their own, plain and simple.

See the difference in the law enforcement response to the BLM protests, with thousands of heavily armed NG and riot police, to the pathetic police presence yesterday.

Capitol police let this happen.

[Mehrunes]

So I went to sleep and...

It seems that the MAGArection is turning on their own? Q Shaman is now antifa?
Some Republican Reps. decided to embrace insurrection on the House Floor?
Conservative pundits are desperately trying to find scapegoats and claim this isn't conservatism?
Some are actually reflecting on what happened yesterday and a small minoirty are realizing how deeply fucked up the conservative movement is, now?

Are Trump supporters still locked in their hotels crying about curfew?

MAGArection? Q Shaman? At this point it's hard to figure out if a given name is the actual name of a pro-Trump group/individual/whatever or a term created to mock it... Also, when someone on MMO-C yesterday evening wrote about some Trump supporters trying to blame antifa for the domestic terrorist con I though they were making a joke. But then I actually saw it happen. With "indisputable evidence" showing pictures of two different people that just so happened to have heavy facial hair.

[Magical Mudcrab]

I'm kind of uncomfortable framing all BLM protests as mostly peaceful and this one a full on insurrection.

Because BLM protests are virtually all peaceful. The overwhelming majority of those who rioted during the BLM protests were the Black Bloc, and are anarchists who routinely show up to protests and begin rioting because that's simply what they do.

What happened here is that a Trump rally was told to march on the Capitol and began storming the building, with many of these people being known white supremacists, members of the KKK, and Nazis. This is not comparable to BLM protests or even the actions of the Black Bloc.

That messaging basically trains us that the Capitol is off limits. You're free to protest, but do it over there. Don't actually come near those at the top who deign to allow you to protest. Obviously these people are woefully mislead by an incompetent fuckwad, but the day may come when something similar is the only way to finally achieve economic or racial parity in this country.

No, the messaging is that Nazis should not try and breach government buildings with the intent of destroying government property, violently and illegally overturning an election, and, if some rumors are to be believed, killing the Vice President for not cooperating with a manbaby would-be despot's attempted coup. These people, all of them, are insurrectionists and should be prosecuted and tried as such, whether they were mislead is immaterial.

[gondrin]

I mostly agree, except that they were so disorganized. They didn't have an end goal. They didn't even know where the hell they were going. Like you already alluded, the majority of these people are freakin dumb. I just don't see how it's the darkest day in American democracy that capital police were caught off guard and people got into where they shouldn't have been able to.

It is because it is just the start. Over the next couple of weeks/months, there will be more and will be more brazen about it.

[Edge-]

MAGArection? Q Shaman? At this point it's hard to figure out if a given name is the actual name of a pro-Trump group/individual/whatever or a term created to mock it... Also, when someone on MMO-C yesterday evening wrote about some Trump supporters trying to blame antifa for the domestic terrorist con I though they were making a joke. But then I actually saw it happen. With "indisputable evidence" showing pictures of two different people that just so happened to have heavy facial hair.

MAGArection is me being dumb. Q Shaman is apparently the tatted dude with the viking helmet, seeing him referred to that way.

And yes, Trump supporters/Republicans are trying to blame antifa, even members of the House/Senate are baselessly asserting "secret antifa" were mixed in.

Problem for all of them, even Andy fuck Ngo, who hangs out with PB's and literal neo-nazi's, is throwing cold water on that bullshit - https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...67520142614529

[Felya]

MAGArection is me being dumb. Q Shaman is apparently the tatted dude with the viking helmet, seeing him referred to that way.

And yes, Trump supporters/Republicans are trying to blame antifa, even members of the House/Senate are baselessly asserting "secret antifa" were mixed in.

Problem for all of them, even Andy fuck Ngo, who hangs out with PB's and literal neo-nazi's, is throwing cold water on that bullshit - https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...67520142614529

Caught this earlier in the thread and is still in my tabs:
https://twitter.com/Gagladla/status/1347165155092799491

That’s someone naming names... since these morons streamed from their real name accounts. A dude already got fired from his lawfirm...