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  1. #101
    What is this...

    Minute 9:25

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-M2ztwGzNI

    The Jailer really pulled a Sauron HAHA, pathetic. Not because he is ripping off Sauron, but because the Old Gods were supposed to be Warcraft's version of Sauron. I mean, look at N'Zoth, he is literally a giant red eye.

    So disappointing, Jailer screams like "filler villain" to me. He has nothing unique or special going on for him.

    The Void expansion cannot come soon enough, this is so boring.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    I mean sure but wouldn't you rather be entrhalled by a story in the now rather than hope it becomes interesting in the future?

    The "let's wait" argument would work IMO if the Jailer was -already- interesting
    How were Illidan, Arthas, Garrosh, etc. in any way interesting when they were first mentioned/seen? It takes some time until the story unfolds. The Jailer has been pulling strings in stories that were told to us 15 years ago. That's enough for me to be quite curious in what he's actually capable of/fighting for.

  3. #103
    Thats because the real threat is the runecarver.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Thats because the real threat is the runecarver.
    Inb4 Runecarver is the Hyde to Primus' Jekyll

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    They're trying too much to tease his backstory, but they should have just done it up front.

    IF it was unjust that he was thrown to the maw, or IF he is infact half of the Arbiter torn apart, then these things would make him far more interesting.

    Makes me feel that he really is just a pantomime villain - Wouldn't be the first time peoples fan theoruies have been far better than Blizzards actual story.
    Yep. For example, Devos ended up supporting the Jailer, but from the little knowledge we have so far it literally makes no sense and just feels like bullshit. Devos is basically just a thrown away character and by the time the reveal happens two years from now people won't care anymore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Based on the story, I assume the main motivation to stop him is to save Anduin (not a great sell to Horde players) and to help out all the friends we've made in Shadowlands. We also probably want to make sure he can't casually abduct our racial leaders again. But with the time-gating of the questline being extended to the narrative, they very much are encouraging us to "lay low and gather intel" than trying any head-on assault, and I think that does negatively impact the urgency of the narrative.
    @Aeresk Also this. Strange that we just had a full on faction war and now they want Horde players to care about saving Anduin, Jaina, and Tyrande? We were literally trying to commit genocide against Tyrande a year ago, and Jaina was a raid boss. Anduin was the military leader that led a world wide war against the Horde. Just let them die and the Alliance will be weaker. That's a win for the Horde.

  6. #106
    1. He isn't a villain.
    2. Until the living stormed his castle - he was very effective.
    3. Right now he is far more effective than the arbiter

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Inb4 Runecarver is the Hyde to Primus' Jekyll
    The Primus left all his clothes behind in Maldraxxus so he either is in some kind of lich like situation with phylacteries and the Statue is him or if he is the runecarver then he wasn't going to check on Zovaal because he was worried he did it for a booty call. I pray to god its the first.

    Also the only power we have seen that is imprison forever worthy is the shit the runecarver has been making for the jailer.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the cutscene for turning in fifteen memories was about stealing the pattern for the mourneblade he forged from Shalamayne rather than stealing the pattern for Frostmourne. I don't think there's any evidence for which of the two were being discussed in the cutscene, but based on Jaina's dialogue in the last questline, I figured they were pointing to the former.
    I'm pretty sure it was Frostmourne because right after it also shows the Helm of Domination. Remember, we're watching a memory (from who knows when) of the Runecarver.

    (Also probably dumb that we're still using spoiler tags here lol)

  9. #109
    All his flaws are balanced by his other flaws. His design is uninspired but to make up for it his voice is dull. He speaks entirely in villainous one liners but he also has no interesting motive. His backstory hypes him up massively, as do other characters, but these informed traits are let down by how he doesn't achieve much any time he's on screen.

    Pretty much the only things I can say in his favor is that I like the look of his minions, Torghast and the Maw, and some of the concepts are fine, but every single one of his minions are more compelling than he is and could use those aspects while bringing more to the table.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  10. #110
    The Jailer should have done something bad to us to see him as a villan. Kill some known loved character even if it wasn’t a first row protagonist, destroy an Azoroth town maybe, stop our plans while leveling maybe stealing and ruining the end of a long quest chain, things in those lines to make us see him as a threat.

    But kidnaping the leaders was more of a Sylvanas is bas thing than the Jailer.

  11. #111
    I might have found the jailer to be more threatening if we didn't escape his "inescapable" prison world literally 10 mins after landing there, and then proceed to mock his and it's very existence by jumping back in there daily to pick herbs and mine ore.
    Scheduled weekly maintenance caught me by surprise.

  12. #112
    I think the bigger issue is that the WoW lore just does not feel consequential in the slightest. Shadowlands has only made this worse. I personally have no interest in "the big bad" anymore. I love some of the side stories, the setting, the grandiose set pieces. The villains; not so much.

  13. #113
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Blizzard think that just bringing up a guy, out of nowhere, and saying he is the big bad of all wow, that can kill everyone that is more powerful than the legion, will make us believe/feel that.

    Show, don't say, show him being a villain, doing things that make his reputation, that can be over patches/expansions, but just coming out of nowhere, and saying he is badass will not make him that

    same problem with the last 3 expansions, archimonde came out of nowhere in wod final, passable since we already knew him, but just meh, cause it did not show any danger, it was as much like a timewalking event, in Legion they ditch Sargeras to bring, out of nowhere again, Argus, like he was hot shit, another meh boss, and in bfa N'zoth was wasted in one patch after a huge hype about how an old god released would be bananas to deal with.

  14. #114
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sithalos View Post
    I might have found the jailer to be more threatening if we didn't escape his "inescapable" prison world literally 10 mins after landing there, and then proceed to mock his and it's very existence by jumping back in there daily to pick herbs and mine ore.
    Yep. I know, I know, gameplay > lore, but making us go to the Maw (and storming Blue Satan's stronghold) on a daily basis really makes for a piss poor threat. Especially when all you hear down there is nO OnE EscAPeS tEh mAw
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  15. #115

    Horde

    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    How were Illidan, Arthas, Garrosh, etc. in any way interesting when they were first mentioned/seen? It takes some time until the story unfolds. The Jailer has been pulling strings in stories that were told to us 15 years ago. That's enough for me to be quite curious in what he's actually capable of/fighting for.

    The thing is, it really doesn't.
    They did a lot of Retcon to make us believe he has been moving the ICEs for 15 years. But right away you notice that he is not like that and he loses all the magic.

    I mean this twist that Sylvanas was always with the jailer when we have 3 Sylvanas novels looking at his inner thoughts and never mentioning it.

    Unlike Nzoth we already knew that he was really moving the lines of 15 years ago.

    In the end he is a kind of failed ancient god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Yep. I know, I know, gameplay > lore, but making us go to the Maw (and storming Blue Satan's stronghold) on a daily basis really makes for a piss poor threat. Especially when all you hear down there is nO OnE EscAPeS tEh mAw
    Is that the jaws could be like in legion if it has to be something so "threatening" something where we can not go until the first patch and when we go to be the "GREAT ATTACK".
    Last edited by geco; 2021-01-08 at 01:17 AM.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Yep. I know, I know, gameplay > lore, but making us go to the Maw (and storming Blue Satan's stronghold) on a daily basis really makes for a piss poor threat. Especially when all you hear down there is nO OnE EscAPeS tEh mAw
    the end is upon you!

  17. #117
    But Denathrius is the villain of 9.0, and he was very effective.

    Presumably, there will be a 9.1, .2, and .3 villain as well.

    We've been teased all sorts locations from vague ones like the ruined Elune-worshipping world of Fyzandi and the hints of another afterlife realm called Craftenium, to the very obvious presence of the Drust and potential to visit Thros and deal with Gorak Tul.

    The Jailer's story shouldn't be complete and "make sense" until the end of the expansion. Right now he is not the villain, but the mystery of the plot. He says he was betrayed, the other eternals say he was the betrayer.

    What actually happened and why does death work this way? The real villain of the story will be whomever planned our souls to be eternal batteries for the machinations of death. There's a good chance that the Jailer/Sylvannas will actually be trying to defeat that villain, and we, as wow characters, will stop them therefore enabling the new big bad... because what we do is create our own problems, generally.
    Last edited by Pawpurr; 2021-01-08 at 09:41 AM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Blizzard think that just bringing up a guy, out of nowhere, and saying he is the big bad of all wow, that can kill everyone that is more powerful than the legion, will make us believe/feel that.

    Show, don't say, show him being a villain, doing things that make his reputation, that can be over patches/expansions, but just coming out of nowhere, and saying he is badass will not make him that

    same problem with the last 3 expansions, archimonde came out of nowhere in wod final, passable since we already knew him, but just meh, cause it did not show any danger, it was as much like a timewalking event, in Legion they ditch Sargeras to bring, out of nowhere again, Argus, like he was hot shit, another meh boss, and in bfa N'zoth was wasted in one patch after a huge hype about how an old god released would be bananas to deal with.
    Blizzard has to say the Jailer is the big bad of the expansion because if they try to be clever about it, not revealing everything to the player right away, people complain that the lack of a clear villain in the expansion make them not care about it.

    Here Blizzard tries to create a new villain slowly accross multiple storylines and develop him with other characters by his side or working with/for him. They're building him as a main antagonist from the start so the problem you seem to have with the big bag showing himself at the end doesn't occur.

    What more can they do ? People complain about the lack of new characters but also complain when a new character is created from scratch. I feel for the devs, it's not a bttle they'll ever win...

    I think you're being unfair about you examples. Argus was never the big bad of the expansion, it's quite obvious. The Burning Legion was, and they were using Argus (the idea of Argus' world-soul being enslaved by Sargeras was explained along the way and we were literally on the remains on the planet) as a weapon. The Burning Legion as an army was the ennemy. As for BFA, the Old Gods presence was really clear from the start of the expansion in both Horde and Alliance storylines, with a lot of events with cultists, a small raid to introduce N'Zoth's coming, etc. Of course all of this was muddle this the Sylvanas storyline that was supposed to be the main focus of the expansion, but N'zoth didn't appeared by magic in the last patch, he's been present all this time (and played an active role in the Cataclysm storyline through Deathwing). Could they have made the story work a little bit better ? Of course. But saying N'Zoth was wasted in one patch is not true. What was wasted is the potential of a Nyalotha outdoor zone, but that's another discussion.

  19. #119
    When you free Thrall, he is at the exit, the moment you free him he starts to be bossing around "I've had enough of this place, lets get out of here". Tbh how Thrall has been behaving in SLs is terrible and annoying
    Agreed. He even called me "Maw walker", like - what the eff. That's Champion or Hero to you, Thrallerino.
    Only Shadowlands people get to call me maw walker, because that's what I am to them. To Thrall, I am the guy who killed Rend blackhand, Onyxia and Nefarian. I stopped the Lich king and helped Thrall himself do the hamekameha on Deathwing. I arranged so he could meet his alternate universe Dad and Mom. I deposed the tyrant he himself brought to power, and killed the burning legion when he was away on parental leave.
    So don't give me that Maw Walker crap.

    Calling it, the Thrall we rescued is a Dreadlord.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Season2mask View Post
    It never ceases to amuse me that people reply to threads with, 'yeah but that's just like your opinion, man'

    Of course it's my opinion. Forums are made for discussion.

    You'd think my use of the word, 'I', that you've put in bold would maybe tip you off to the fact that it is MY opinion. I'M not YOU.

    Dude, you said you didn't like the jailer, don't you know that you need to write a term paper complete with a long list of reputable sources for that?

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