Should we go outlaw?

[Aureli]

Hey, Im solving this question for few weeks already and im still not really decided. Is switching from sub to outlaw worthed for raiding atm?

[Dessicuus]

Outlaw is doing slightly better than Sub on certain fights but if you look up each fight you are seeing both specs being pretty closely represented and I think you should play the one you prefer. Linked below is the top rogues in mythic currently. Notice you see both specs. Play what you like!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...26#class=Rogue

[Eazy]

Just for raiding? I wouldn't say so. Subtlety is fine for raiding.
But if you are going to do M+ also then I'd consider switching to Outlaw.

I am trying almost all possible content, so I will be still playing Subtlety(Raiding, M+, PvP). It feels the best overall.

Play what you like!

Just not Assassination.

[Sunderella]

I would say Sub is still good for raids. For M+ Outlaw is probably better suited because its AoE is better integrated in the usual rotation. In my experience, Sub AoE is ok on big packs when you can spam shuriken > black powder nonstop, but when it comes to less than 4-5 mobs I think it suffers a lot.

[exsanguinate]

Rogue in general is far away from good or decent in raiding. We get replaced in everything by everything and that is understandable. Besides pvp we do not perform well.

Didnt blizz say there will be class tuning after new year?

[ymirsson]

Rogue in general is far away from good or decent in raiding. We get replaced in everything by everything and that is understandable. Besides pvp we do not perform well.

Didnt blizz say there will be class tuning after new year?

maybe you need to get gud. or find some friends instead of a raiding community with crooked expectations.

[Coldkil]

im seriously conseidering to switch, i have dropped a nice main hand so the seap should be easy enough. Just need 200 more ashes for the lvl 3 leggo.

Reasoning is that outlaw is just one build for all. Stat priority, legendary, talents are basically the same for every kind of content. Since i do raid and m+ it's just way more mangeable. Also aoe/cleave is braindead and effectuve as usual.

[ro9ue]

I went Death Knight.

[Biomega]

I went Death Knight.

And why wouldn't you, when DK is basically just a better Rogue right now :/ Excluding high M+ I suppose, but even there it's close.

[Moggers1990]

maybe you need to get gud. or find some friends instead of a raiding community with crooked expectations.

If you're in a guild currently progressing past 5 or 6/10 then it's not "crooked expectations". When your roster is 24+, the Rogues are being benched for all the DKs or Monks or just any ranged. There is zero reason to bring a Rogue over other specs, except maybe Xy'mox because of cloak soaking but DKs can still do that better

[Kaver]

maybe you need to get gud. or find some friends instead of a raiding community with crooked expectations.

Rogue just doesn’t bring any utility to a raid right now. It’s much better to bring a DK and get an AMZ for example. And most raid groups have 10 Hunters so there is usually more than enough immunities.

I do play a Rogue right now in my raid group but I feel like a little bit of a burden because I don’t bring anything other than damage. Sure I can clear a couple of traps and orbs but other classes might as well do that.

[Aureli]

Rogue just doesn’t bring any utility to a raid right now. It’s much better to bring a DK and get an AMZ for example. And most raid groups have 10 Hunters so there is usually more than enough immunities.

I do play a Rogue right now in my raid group but I feel like a little bit of a burden because I don’t bring anything other than damage. Sure I can clear a couple of traps and orbs but other classes might as well do that.

And they can even do dmg while doing that

[ymirsson]

If you're in a guild currently progressing past 5 or 6/10 then it's not "crooked expectations". When your roster is 24+, the Rogues are being benched for all the DKs or Monks or just any ranged. There is zero reason to bring a Rogue over other specs, except maybe Xy'mox because of cloak soaking but DKs can still do that better

if you are in a mythic guild progressing, i would expect people to not whine about not having a perfect game to play. it's not like this is news.

[Coldkil]

if you are in a mythic guild progressing, i would expect people to not whine about not having a perfect game to play. it's not like this is news.

Basically. You can do mythic raiding but if you're really into killing stuff as fast as possible, the class you play becomes immediately secondary.

[mojusk]

sub is best for single target, but its cleave is garbage and aoe below average.

outlaw isnt far behind sub in single target, its far better at cleave and aoe.

outlaws only big weakness compared to sub is single target burst.

ideally we would play both outlaw and sub, but good luck with getting a good outlaw MH weapon + 2 good daggers.

[Kaver]

sub is best for single target, but its cleave is garbage and aoe below average.

outlaw isnt far behind sub in single target, its far better at cleave and aoe.

outlaws only big weakness compared to sub is single target burst.

ideally we would play both outlaw and sub, but good luck with getting a good outlaw MH weapon + 2 good daggers.

Sub and Outlaw are almost completely equal on single target right now. And Sub isn’t even bursting high without the Master Assassin legendary which no one uses in raid. With Finality Sub burst is pretty low to be honest.

[SidFwuff]

sub is best for single target, but its cleave is garbage and aoe below average.

ideally we would play both outlaw and sub, but good luck with getting a good outlaw MH weapon + 2 good daggers.

You can actually use a 1H as your offhand for Sub too, can't you? Only drawback is the same as using 2 1H on outlaw- the instant poison is applied a little bit more slowly.

So really you would just need a good dagger and a good 1H for both specs.

[mojusk]

You can actually use a 1H as your offhand for Sub too, can't you? Only drawback is the same as using 2 1H on outlaw- the instant poison is applied a little bit more slowly.

So really you would just need a good dagger and a good 1H for both specs.

unfortunately no. according to the rogue discord ravenholdt, a slow OH needs to be 30 ilvls higher than a dagger for it to be better.
im not sure why, my first thought was also because of poisons. but that doesnt explain why daggers and slow OH is equally good for outlaw.

[Varolyn]

unfortunately no. according to the rogue discord ravenholdt, a slow OH needs to be 30 ilvls higher than a dagger for it to be better.
im not sure why, my first thought was also because of poisons. but that doesnt explain why daggers and slow OH is equally good for outlaw.

Because a slow off hand for sub means you proc shadow techniques less. Which in turn means less energy regen and less cp generation.

[shoegazing]

I went Death Knight.

And why wouldn't you, when DK is basically just a better Rogue right now :/ Excluding high M+ I suppose, but even there it's close.

This is your brain on spreadsheets