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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    AHAHAHHA. I should have recognized it at the beginning.
    It just another thread lamenting the fact that others don't like to carry people and want to play with people on their same level.

    Nobody should bring you up, it is your own responsibility to get better at the game. Of course if you want to get better and not just get carried.
    You reap what you sow. With people like you, the entire game turns into a dog-eat-dog parody of real life that's just as unpleasant to play as real life is to live in. Helping new players is a reward in itself and makes them more likely to stick around and it enriches the community. Of course, we have people like you who want WoW to be an e-sports lobby.

  2. #102
    They are making a billion dollars a year after 16 years. Whatever they did wrong, it certainly didn't break the business model.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    What do we currently have? And of course WotLK had timegating: It took us until the last patch to see the fate of the lich king. And we even had similar forms of timegating as we have now: Argentum tournament requires you to do a certain amount of daylies to progress, just as an example. Without catchup, I might add.
    Progress on what? Talent tree? I thought so. Even skill (covenant) change is time gated. And to say that last raid was time-gated. Are you bunch serious???

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    Imagine being upset at time gates... the alternative is either A) being able to grind stuff in a week and moaning about nothing being worth doing or B) being expected to grind it in a week for player power else be behind.
    Imagine being such a huge blizzard fanboy that you cant actually express and opinion that is different from grand all knowing master Ion's.

    Time gating is a stupid artificial way of keeping the playerbase engaged. It straight up tells the playerbase "hey we as devs know that we dont have enough content to keep you entertained, so instead of doing more work we decided to time gate it so that you are forced to give us more sub fees" and I feels bad as a player.

    SL has proven to me that time gating has gone too far. My covenant campaign is only just now catching up to where my character was story wise a few weeks ago. This feels aweful in game, as I feel like im time looping for no reason.

    I subscribe to the idea that the true endgame is collecting things that make you look flashier than the other person, and time gating prevents me from doing that at the pace in which id like.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Progress on what? Talent tree? I thought so. Even skill (covenant) change is time gated. And to say that last raid was time-gated. Are you bunch serious???
    How was the last raid not timegated? ICC released early december and Lich King was not killable until early February, since it only released one wing every 2 weeks or so. In addition to that the raid was timegated artificially by limiting the amount of tries allowed each week.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Progress on what? Talent tree? I thought so. Even skill (covenant) change is time gated. And to say that last raid was time-gated. Are you bunch serious???
    you never played wotlk on official realm, have you?
    argent crusade tournament (which varg mentioned) required you to do dailies for some time to unlock the next "rank" of daily quests that gave different currency used for gear and cosmetics...
    hell ICC was released not all at once, but as WINGS (as LFR is now) over couple of months...

    so yeah, timegating always was in wow, even in beloved WOTLK, people just seem to forget about it bcs that was back then... nostalgy is hell of a thing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helander View Post
    Time gating is a stupid artificial way of keeping the playerbase engaged. It straight up tells the playerbase "hey we as devs know that we dont have enough content to keep you entertained, so instead of doing more work we decided to time gate it so that you are forced to give us more sub fees" and I feels bad as a player.
    then dont start playing expansion untill few months in x.3, you will have all unlocked and you wont have to whine and bother others, so its win-win...

    or dont play at all, i dont think the game is for you, as it seems it took you 16 years and still didnt realise the whole game is pretty much based on timegating... actualy pretty much whole genre, otherwise there wouldnt be patches, but all content at once, once per 3-4 years...
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-01-08 at 08:20 PM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    you never played wotlk on official realm, have you?
    argent crusade tournament (which varg mentioned) required you to do dailies for some time to unlock the next "rank" of daily quests that gave different currency used for gear and cosmetics...
    hell ICC was released not all at once, but as WINGS (as LFR is now) over couple of months...

    so yeah, timegating always was in wow, even in beloved WOTLK, people just seem to forget about it bcs that was back then... nostalgy is hell of a thing
    I played during WotLK. Argent Tournament dailies came earlier. You are talking about 3.2 vendor, which was mostly a catch up mechanism. As for ICC wings. We are talking about 1 or 2 weeks of time-gating between wings. This is effectively no time-gating for majority of player base, including myself. This effects only top-end raider who clear raids faster than most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stnikolauswagne View Post
    How was the last raid not timegated? ICC released early december and Lich King was not killable until early February, since it only released one wing every 2 weeks or so. In addition to that the raid was timegated artificially by limiting the amount of tries allowed each week.
    That's effectively no time-gating for overwhelming majority of player base, I am talking about > 95%.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    I played during WotLK. Argent Tournament dailies came earlier. You are talking about 3.2 vendor, which was mostly a catch up mechanism. As for ICC wings. We are talking about 1 or 2 weeks of time-gating between wings. This is effectively no time-gating for majority of player base, including myself. This effects only top-end raider who clear raids faster than most.
    doesnt matter if argen tournament dailies (not the one building the stadium that came earlier, but those basinc, then aspirant rank and then champion rank) were "catchup" or not (btw this "catchup" had some gear on par with current normal raid at the time...), it is still timegating...

    but i see, timegating is timegating only if it affects YOU... well good to know, at least i dont have to waste time trying to argue with you...

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The CORE appeal of WoW was guilds competing with each other on the same server for progression goals. That was the big social activity. In between Darkvein pulls, your guild would catch up on progress reports on the 3 other guilds on your server at similar progression. They all wiped? Yes! Now let's go kill it and get ahead of them! They killed it? oh no! We're behind, let's try harder.

    The "modern" raiding model sucks. You aren't competing with rival guilds. You are just mindlessly pulling Darkvein. Maybe you kill it this week. Maybe not. Who cares? The guild will get Hall of Fame eventually. No pressure. No emotion at all. Just boring.
    Not even close. Most people didn't even raid. It may be your core appeal. But I think it is fairly obvious that most people never thought about other guilds progress, if they even raided at all

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    doesnt matter if argen tournament dailies (not the one building the stadium that came earlier, but those basinc, then aspirant rank and then champion rank) were "catchup" or not (btw this "catchup" had some gear on par with current normal raid at the time...), it is still timegating...

    but i see, timegating is timegating only if it affects YOU... well good to know, at least i dont have to waste time trying to argue with you...
    A couple of dailies with virtually no powergains being timegated vs the majority of the game's endgame content being timegated. Oh yeah and the weekly vault is just a non-direct version of timegating. If you want to push high keys, you need gear. If you don't raid, your only source of gear is in a weekly chest. Your other source of gear (PvP) is also tied to a weekly chest and a weekly currency. Everything in WoW now follows daily / weekly gating structure.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    WoW effectively has buyable BiS gear since you can convert tokens into boosts. After coming out of an unrewarding keystone and seeing the trade chat, you can't help but wonder if it's intentional. Struggling to gear up? Make use of our boosters for the low price of 51 pounds!
    not even boosts.

    didnt get anything out of 10/10 hc ? here is plenty of 226 boes to buy - just buy gold from blizzard - and it could be yours like right now ...

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    not even boosts.

    didnt get anything out of 10/10 hc ? here is plenty of 226 boes to buy - just buy gold from blizzard - and it could be yours like right now ...
    Yeah honestly you have really hammered in the issue I have with WoW in recent years. Logging in and seeing all the soft RMT transactions and timegating is making me feel like I'm playing a mobile game.

  13. #113
    Boring people so they quit and come back is much better than frustrating people so they quit and never return.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Yes, that is a perfectly rational way for the player base to think, but the problem with that is that people would unsubscribe until there were something new to play = Blizzard would lose money = it would be irrational for Blizzard to implement such a system.

    It is not a philosophical problem, just a simple question of maximizing profits, which is Blizzard's job after all.
    It can also be profitable to give the customer what they want. So we're back to a philosophical approach again.

    I have never liked the subscription model in WoW. It's always created a conflict of interests where gameplay and design decisions are not based on what is the most fun, but rather what slows down the player to increase profits. No matter how much Blizzard professes that something is set up the way it is in the interest of gameplay, there will always be that kernel of doubt due to the subscription model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Plenty of real life is a big circle, too. Many of us get up, go to work, cook dinner, eat, and go to bed, in an endless cycle, much like running M+ over and over again.
    Oh, and there's all kinds of philosophical treatise on the futility of living your live just to repeat the same boring jobs over and over.

    People often play videogames to escape real life, not repeat the monotony of it. This is something WoW should consider carefully.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    It can also be profitable to give the customer what they want. So we're back to a philosophical approach again.

    I have never liked the subscription model in WoW. It's always created a conflict of interests where gameplay and design decisions are not based on what is the most fun, but rather what slows down the player to increase profits. No matter how much Blizzard professes that something is set up the way it is in the interest of gameplay, there will always be that kernel of doubt due to the subscription model.
    I agree with you that the subscription model "demands" systems that incites the players to be subscribed as long as possible, which some might not find fun.
    Each player should decide for himself whether this "milking" detracts enough from his enjoyment to stop playing the game. And I bet that Blizzard has some quite skilled people to measure and determine what the optimal level of "milking" is.

    But as long as "we" can't show Blizzard that another system that would give Blizzard a higher profit then nothing will happen.
    So "your job" is to make a system where Blizzard can make more money by having the player base playing the game for a shorter period of time compared to now.
    So far I have seen no realistic suggestions for such a system.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    Imagine being upset at time gates... the alternative is either A) being able to grind stuff in a week and moaning about nothing being worth doing or B) being expected to grind it in a week for player power else be behind.
    I'd much rather have too little to do than too much to do. There are obviously extremes on both ends with WoD being literally nothing to do and Legion/BFA being way too much to do. So far I feel like they struck a good balance in Shadowlands where I don't feel obligated to do things every single day for power gains. I have an entire week to take care of my Covenant rank and my Torghast runs and neither are an extreme task to do. I appreciate Shadowlands far more in terms of how it's designed, there's cosmetics there for grinding and that's it. Hopefully they keep this trajectory moving forward.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  17. #117
    I don't care about time-gating, but I prefer the game as it was pre Legion. The game wasn't all rosy and had its problems but from TBC-WOD you didn't need to spend a lot of time playing the game once you'd done the initial content in order to stay 100% on equal footing gearing wise. Since Legion you need to play a lot more to keep competitive.

    In WOTLK WoW was basically an extension of MSN messenger for me, I'd just be logged in for social while I worked and did other things, then I'd raid 3 times a week and that'd be my playing, maybe I'd do a BG here and there or a dungeon for badges. There wasn't really a lot you could do to get ahead, you had your raid lockouts and that's it, but that's the way I liked it.

    Now you have M+, PVP (no longer useless in PVE) and Raiding (split raiding at high end) + MAW for sockets, designed to keep you constantly busy. If you don't do all 3 you're miles behind. I'm miles behind.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2021-01-09 at 09:46 AM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    why should someone like timegating? it's stupid... after the initial burst of playing i don't think i've played wow as little as i have now... why? because almost everything is timegated...
    im sorry, are you seriously saying if the content wasnt timegated, so you could have already finish it by now, you would play MORE?
    bcs more likely scenario is you would finish and then leave until next patch...
    or is timegated campaign somehow stoping you from doing M+/raid/pvp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Now you have M+, PVP (no longer useless in PVE) and Raiding (split raiding at high end) + MAW for sockets, designed to keep you constantly busy. If you don't do all 3 you're miles behind. I'm miles behind.
    rly? bcs i barely raid, run at most 4 M+ and do no pvp at all and im not miles behind... (ofc unless i compare myself to people like Method or Limit)
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-01-09 at 10:14 AM.

  19. #119
    its easy, you put devs and some story telling make event for the game every week/days
    its a mmorpg , its suppose to be dynamic, one day a town is calm, the next it is attaqued by monster or the horde/alliance
    you build hundreds of mini quest/event that pop randomly anywhere on the world map

    but no, blizzard are so lazy, they will never do that, they love too much doing like 5 new quest at each 3-4 month and they wonder why people is quitting lol

    and by the way, if the new stuff was not timegated, we would already finish it all and blizzard would see people quitting even faster, timegatted stuff is just an illusion put in place so players things there is a lot of thing to do
    Last edited by kaintk; 2021-01-09 at 10:17 AM.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    im sorry, are you seriously saying if the content wasnt timegated, so you could have already finish it by now, you would play MORE?
    bcs more likely scenario is you would finish and then leave until next patch...
    or is timegated campaign somehow stoping you from doing M+/raid/pvp?

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    rly? bcs i barely raid, run TOPS 4 M+ and do no pvp at all and im not miles behind... (ofc unless i compare myself to people like Method or Limit)
    So you're averaging ilvl220+ from "barely raiding" and doing 4x M+ a week which drops max ilvl210? I know a load of people who had ilvl233 weapons from PvP and are nowhere near close to clearing M+ raids, heroic raids drop better loot than the highest M+ but you still get mythic raid quality vault loot from doing the highest M+ (while you don't from heroic raid vault).

    If you get super lucky with the vault by only getting 2 options you're still behind people who also PVP and raid, by a significant margin. If you didn't get lucky and you're playing more casually you're probably 15-20ilvl behind. This is worlds apart in performance.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

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