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  1. #21
    I can agree original master loot turned a bit toxic by the end (and im sure before that too). But there was nothing wrong with guild master loot, it just gives guilds an option if they want it or not. Nothing stopping them using personal if thats what they choose.

    Did the removal of gml stop me playing? - No. But removal of options becasue of the vocal minority who had one bad experience once 10 years ago really kinda sucks for those who want to play the game in a way of their choosing.

  2. #22
    I think master loot should stay gone. I’m so happy when I get a higher ilvl drop that has my worst stats on it and then get to trade off the piece I really want later on because I got the shitty one first that is don’t want and could have been better elsewhere. I love seeing my guild members not get the piece they want that is a good upgrade because someone else has lower ilvl in that same slot and they don’t even want the piece.
    This has only been made even better with reduced loot dropped from bosses. Gone are the days of people getting loot quickly and efficiently! Now we have the much better system along the lines of Classic and Vanilla with big raid teams of 30 people getting a max total of 30 pieces a night! Who can argue the amazing gearing process of going multiple weeks without an upgrade from raid while you see the same 3 rings drop off the same boss multiple weeks in a row. Gone are the days of more loot chances!
    Rejoice all ye casuals! All your prayers have been answered!

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    aside from blizzard's metrics where they need those MAU's to show investors the game isn't dead yet, how is that a bad thing?, the days of being married to one game and one game only are long gone, if you can achieve a goal like that and have a full set of gear on your character that's sufficient for the content you participate in and can log off and not worry about it until the new wave of content launches, would be immense for the game i think, the only gear being better obviously would come from raiding and if you wanted full BiS then you would have to work for it but having a vendor set that is functional in most content for most people would be ideal.
    Hey, you just described WotLK's loot system. Care to wager any guesses why it's not around any more? (Hint: The answer isn't because Blizzard hates its players!)

  4. #24
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    I am ok with ML staying, for both the drama removal, AND the speed of looting. I took literal ages in WoD for peeps to make up their mind whether they want the gear piece or not. We were sitting at the next boss and ML was still at previous kill waiting for others to make up their minds. Also setting up mandatory BiS lists, and so on. The only issues I got with PL is when I want to give away a 2h that's lower ilvl than my 1h, but can't because my OH is even lower lvl. Or when the trinket is dog for my spec. But these are minor things, tbh.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Castle Nathria lfm. Tier, trinkets, plate armor reserved, because FUCK YOU.

    Yeah no, masterlooter can stay away.
    Still happens with Personal Loot. Top end guilds pay players eligible to trade loot to join their runs and trade loot to their players.

  6. #26
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Still happens with Personal Loot. Top end guilds pay players eligible to trade loot to join their runs and trade loot to their players.
    Top end guilds will do w/e to get an edge. Cant fight that.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Still happens with Personal Loot. Top end guilds pay players eligible to trade loot to join their runs and trade loot to their players.
    But now its a choice the player makes, not a choice the master looter makes for them. Regardless of it they agree or not.

    The reality is simple, Master Loot was a big enough headache for Blizzard (and specifically customer support) to bother to come up with a replacement system.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    But now its a choice the player makes, not a choice the master looter makes for them. Regardless of it they agree or not.

    The reality is simple, Master Loot was a big enough headache for Blizzard (and specifically customer support) to bother to come up with a replacement system.
    I mean, if the run clearly states that things are reserved and you join anyway that's... really not the ML making the choice for them, is it?

    Forced PL is here because Blizzard got tired of answering tickets from Trials in new guilds who felt slighted by Loot Councils constantly favoring core raiders over them. It's an objectively less fair system for some, but an objectively more fair system to most. And that's why it's here. For the record, I'd prefer ML to be an option but I can't see a way for them to add it back without all of its downsides being amplified 100x due to its absence from the game for so long.

  9. #29
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Still happens with Personal Loot. Top end guilds pay players eligible to trade loot to join their runs and trade loot to their players.
    The thing is though, you compare top end guilds to average pugs.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I mean, if the run clearly states that things are reserved and you join anyway that's... really not the ML making the choice for them, is it?

    Forced PL is here because Blizzard got tired of answering tickets from Trials in new guilds who felt slighted by Loot Councils constantly favoring core raiders over them. It's an objectively less fair system for some, but an objectively more fair system to most. And that's why it's here. For the record, I'd prefer ML to be an option but I can't see a way for them to add it back without all of its downsides being amplified 100x due to its absence from the game for so long.
    Honestly, just make ML only able to be used in a full guild group. If even 1 pug is there it becomes Personal. Might be too strict and discourage sales but it’s the only thing I could see working.
    I’ve never concerned myself with trials because (A) I’ve been one and subject to the same loot rules, and (B) every guild I’ve checked out and joined have very clearly stated rules regarding how loot works. There’s even the bonus of, if you join a guild late or during progression and prove yourself, you can potentially be showered with loot. Barring the odd elusive trinket or weapon that only ever seems to drop twice no matter how many times the guild kills something.
    I see horror stories from people all the time, but that’s never been my experience. Maybe I just have better luck with guilds, or slightly better reading comprehension. It’s just sad we lost ML due to people that complain about joining a guild and being forced to follow that guilds rules.

  11. #31
    Warchief vsb's Avatar
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    They should not return master loot, but rather make personal loot even more strict and completely disallow any loot trading at all. As of now, guilds still exploit their members and forcing them to trade loot, that is unacceptable and Blizzard should fix it immediately.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    The current PvP gear is gated behind not only earning rank but earning conquest which has a weekly cap. Yes you can get a full set of honor gear without dealing with a weekly cap but the "best" gear is all gated behind a weekly cap and rating. Moving to a badge system would allow people to bypass the hard stops for gear that PvP gear has. The only way to not do that is putting raid badges in and dungeon badges in with raid badges having a hard cap every week but that just adds to these "hardcore" guilds complaining that they aren't able to gear up like they used to because they are limited by the cap on badges per week.
    You don't have to explain to me how PvP gear works. I know it very well my friend

    I think a hard cap on badges would be fine. Regarding raiding the cap would come pretty naturally simply by the weekly raid lockout. And I think you misunderstand what Hardcore guilds want. They would not complain at all. They don't like doing split raids etc. to get gear. They only do it because they can and because the competition do it. But if they can avoid it, they would.

    Anyway, the point is, you can easily make a badge system that would reward overall the same amount of loot as now. The difference would be RNG and player agency. Instead of some players being really lucky and some really unlucky, all players would be able to work towards the gear they want in a steady progress.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2021-01-09 at 11:13 PM.

  13. #33
    Please NO MASTER LOOT. Personal loot is vastly superior.

    Thank you.

  14. #34
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    I don't miss master loot in the slightest.
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  15. #35
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    Removing master loot made the game worse. Just a little bit worse but still.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    aside from blizzard's metrics where they need those MAU's to show investors the game isn't dead yet, how is that a bad thing?, the days of being married to one game and one game only are long gone, if you can achieve a goal like that and have a full set of gear on your character that's sufficient for the content you participate in and can log off and not worry about it until the new wave of content launches, would be immense for the game i think, the only gear being better obviously would come from raiding and if you wanted full BiS then you would have to work for it but having a vendor set that is functional in most content for most people would be ideal.
    We currently have that.

    Literally as of this week you can have a full set of armor upgraded to iLevel 190 with everything but trinkets, rings, neck and weapons just from doing your covenant story quest and then upgrading pieces with anima.

    This gives you gear that's better than M0 and even with LFR - next week when we complete the covenant campaigns it'll be even better than LFR and just shy of normal raid gear.

    Meanwhile once your followers hit level 33 or so you'll start getting mission table missions that reward iLevel 184 gear which includes weapons and trinkets.

    So there ya go.

    Easy to get baseline level gear, that you can then even ignore until the next patch if you choose.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    You forgot the biggest +:

    + you can quit the game in a week since you'll be BiS and there's nothing left to do!
    That never happened in the past because gearing was gated. The higher value badge only dropped from the daily reward and the lower value badge dropped from dungeon bosses was more for alts/catchup. Raid bosses dropped the higher quality badge too. In T9/10 they put the tier behind the badge vendor and that was not only the most popular era of the game but it's also still the most popular private server era, with some servers just thriving for years stuck on that ICC patch (don't ask me how or why, I don't get it).

    Gearing in the past was like you had your badges, maybe a cheeky RNG drop from the world pvp zone boss (like Wintergrasp) and then you had raids which dropped loot + badges. So if you were unlucky with drops you'd buy what you needed from badges, which were maybe slightly less optimised stat wise but still really good.

    I think that model was just perfect. The new version is obviously designed to keep you playing all the time, but I think master loot doesn't have a huge bearing on the discussion, though I definitely preferred it.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    It solves more problems than it creates.

    The biggest issue is with people in high-end guilds who want to funnel gear, but they're a microscopic percentage of the player base. For everyone else, not getting screwed out of loot because you're a trial or there's cronyism or whatever is such a big, everyday upside the downsides barely matter - if at all.
    Fair take. From a competent guild POV Master Loot was brilliant, but other than that...? Ehhh. I really do wish it was still an option in Mythic, but heyo, if that were the case, I'd be getting no loot at all because why the hell would you give loot to a walking battle shout

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    That never happened in the past because gearing was gated. The higher value badge only dropped from the daily reward and the lower value badge dropped from dungeon bosses was more for alts/catchup. Raid bosses dropped the higher quality badge too. In T9/10 they put the tier behind the badge vendor and that was not only the most popular era of the game but it's also still the most popular private server era, with some servers just thriving for years stuck on that ICC patch (don't ask me how or why, I don't get it).

    Gearing in the past was like you had your badges, maybe a cheeky RNG drop from the world pvp zone boss (like Wintergrasp) and then you had raids which dropped loot + badges. So if you were unlucky with drops you'd buy what you needed from badges, which were maybe slightly less optimised stat wise but still really good.

    I think that model was just perfect. The new version is obviously designed to keep you playing all the time, but I think master loot doesn't have a huge bearing on the discussion, though I definitely preferred it.
    ML has nothing at all to do with nostalgia-blinded WotLK fans like you who just wish you could travel back in time to enjoy your favorite expansion again. I hope you get your wish when WotLK Classic is released in a few years.

  20. #40
    Pit Lord rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Hey, you just described WotLK's loot system. Care to wager any guesses why it's not around any more? (Hint: The answer isn't because Blizzard hates its players!)
    it's not around anymore because blizzard realised that if they gave players a way to get 100% deterministic loot then people would stop playing once they achieved their goals, and they can't be having that, furthermore the reason why the 'wrath' system didn't really work was because of how convoluted it was between having a badge vendor for every tier, and needing a way to convert different badges around, it was a bit of a mess really, not really sure the point you were trying to make but there you go.

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