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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    Nowadays serious guilds run A LOT more than that and raids were good as ever.

    Let's be honest, Wotlk really was good BECAUSE it was easy. Because easy content got you max level gear. Not fully decked, but a few pieces.
    Also in Wotlk, your gear didn't matter THAT much, base max level characters were much stronger than they are now, and getting them fully geared didn't made their dps go up by 500%.
    I dont run the same raid 4 times per character. Alts doesnt count as they are different.

  2. #262
    Was WotLK a fun expansion? Yes it was.

    But the praise it gets baffles me.

    6 months of Naxx, all we had was piss easy content you could clear in Black Temple gear for 6 months. It had a severe lack of content outside of raids, in any patch (but 3 dungeons in ICC patch was nice, although pointless after doing them once on your main).

    Ulduar was a nice raid, far from the best, the first half of the raid is awful, first fight is one of the worst fights in history. Was also easy, HMs were cool and gave a challenge which was needed in this easy mode expansion.

    5 mans gave easy catch up gear, and also launched the, lets blast and aoe everything till end because they were so easy. That's maybe down to more class mechanics than anything. They were easy from launch, in T6.

    After 6 months of Naxx, I think we only had 3 months of Ulduar to go into ToC, which was piss easy outside of the achievements. The gear from ToC (and how easy it was to get it as well), made Ulduar pointless, again, outside of achievements. Gear from Ulduar was made irrelvant overnight.

    Can't remember how long it took for ICC to come out, was a fun raid, before the buffs you could get, the heroics were pretty challenging, but they just got easier and easier pretty quick.

    We then had 1 year of ICC, maybe a bit more, and an awful filler raid near the end, which no one talks about.

    So WotLK gave us raids at launch you could instantly do without gearing in 5 mans, easy catch ups in 5 mans with every patch, mana not meaning anything (on my priest I just did a rotation like, pom, coh, renew renew, repeat and top healing easy, and never worrying about mana, or when disc, spam shield, with mana being no issue).

    WotLK was user friendly, which is probally why it is liked, it catered to nubs, they could do anything easily. These days we have mythic raids or M+ dungeons, which are not wrath baby friendly.

  3. #263
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    Not factual eh? Lol okay.
    Ulduar was perfectly doable on release. I and my guild did it. You didnt say PUGgable... that's a very different thing. In general raids were not easily pugged until 3.3.

    without a shadow of a doubt I can tell you that ulduar pugs weren't nearly as popular for ulduar to somehow become the "best raid ever."
    Who gives a fuck about whether it could be PUGed? And how does a raid not being widely pugged matter to its quality?
    That's why I said what i said, that ulduar became beloved during ToC when people were geared enough to steamroll it. All raids in this game have that "sense of wonder" the first time through it. Wrath raids are nothing special.
    Your experience is yours. Not gospel.

    People refuse to look at this topic with objectivity. that's the real take-away from this thread.
    Because opinions are never objective. they're SUBJECTIVE. But there's that inability to think again. Yo confuse the quality of a raid with whether it can be PUGed (and apparently steamrolled) and you're one of these people who thinks their opinion is fact. Pathetically unclear thinking.
    Last edited by clevin; 2021-01-03 at 08:13 AM.

  4. #264
    The Lightbringer DesoPL's Avatar
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    The only thing what comes to my mind about WOTLK is... Trial of The Crusader worst raid in game back then, due to time you spended there. It was one of shortest raids. Then i forgot, WOTLK added also Obsidian Sanctum, Eye Of Eternity and Ruby Sanctum with one boss actually.

    Also as many others said, the storyline in WOTLK was not written on knee, like is now in WoW. Allthough Shadowlands got quite better than BfA but still.
    .

  5. #265
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    Wrath is the best because that's where i had the most fun playing wow.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampyrr View Post
    The fights in TOC were unique ONCE. But in a serious guild you ran it 4 times a week (10n 10h 25n 25h) it got old fast.
    I guess it never bothered me. I don't remember us doing 10-man normals for very long, but that might just be a gap in my memory. I always loved 10-man heroic, though -- it was my favorite difficulty level while it existed. In any case, the normal mode fights were relatively easy and quick. By the time you're farming 10-man heroic and 25-man normal, 10-man normal is a super quick in and out. By the time you're progressing through 25-man heroic, I don't really see a need for 10-man normals and would even consider 25-man normal to be optional for a lot of players. Again, this could just be a gap in my memory.

    The low number of bosses and lack of trash really kill any complaints I have about running it multiple times a week.

    I don't know, this raid was a really fun one for me as a pally tank and as a raid leader. I liked it at all levels.
    Grand Crusader Belloc <-- 6608 Endless Tank Proving Grounds score! (
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  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Also, Ulduar-25 gear wasn't a lot worse than TOC-10 gear (and with the right stats it might well be better), so you might want to keep doing Ulduar-25 while doing ToC-10 so get more gear for alts, off-sets, etc. while progressing in ToC-25. As I recall there was no Strength 2-hander in ToC-10 (or if there was it wasn't very good for my Ret main), so you'd be wanting the two-handed sword off Vezax-25, for example.

    Lootship.

    The first two bosses had some simple mechanics, then there was lootship, and then there was a serious DPS and threat generation check. It wasn't until you got into the upper wings that things got really interesting.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Moving Lightning Bolt was a Cata innovation, to my recollection. WotLK brought Lava Burst.
    Yes, I remember the final 3 bosses being fairly decent in ICC but that's about it. But compared with somewhere like Ulduar there were way more interesting/difficult fights. I'd say even Ignis, Razorscale, and XT002 were quite intensive while you were gearing up, for example. The keepers were all fairly difficult at first with some being much easier than others once you got used to it. Mimiron, I felt remained difficult though and Vezax and Yogg were also difficult.

    I'd say Flame Leviathan and Assembly were gimmes and I didn't find Kologarn difficult at all but I think that was more of a healer intensive fight than anything else.

    I agree with your points on ToC. ToC felt like a tier slotted in between Ulduar and ICC rather than its own raid tier, and it only had half the number of bosses so this description feels right. But in general, in WotLK multiple tiers of gear were all relevant. We still ran Naxx25 even while Ulduar was on Farm because Last Laugh was a great tanking weapon.

    This is one of the things I miss about raiding tbh. I hope shadowlands provides more overlap but I can't see it happening if I'm honest.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    I guess it never bothered me. I don't remember us doing 10-man normals for very long, but that might just be a gap in my memory. I always loved 10-man heroic, though -- it was my favorite difficulty level while it existed. In any case, the normal mode fights were relatively easy and quick. By the time you're farming 10-man heroic and 25-man normal, 10-man normal is a super quick in and out. By the time you're progressing through 25-man heroic, I don't really see a need for 10-man normals and would even consider 25-man normal to be optional for a lot of players. Again, this could just be a gap in my memory.

    The low number of bosses and lack of trash really kill any complaints I have about running it multiple times a week.

    I don't know, this raid was a really fun one for me as a pally tank and as a raid leader. I liked it at all levels.
    It was boring, the fights were all boring except anub and then he got boring after a few weeks. There was no real change in scenery it was a filler tier.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post

    I don't get it. Dungeon finder/welfare gear only happened in ICC patch, when was wotlk this fantastic experience? genuinely curious.
    exactly, the game was still a "living world" with server community and such. Something that is forever gone in quecraft with systems on top of systems

  10. #270
    As someone who played everything since 2006, the only bad things i can say about WotLK:

    - The integration of achievements. Good idea but was quickly used as a tool to discriminate players. Gearscore later on finished that. The toxic baby for min maxing meta was born.

    - ToC - that raid and it's loot was really lazy. Coming right after Ulduar made it even worse. Luckily the expansion ended with ICC, which was not as good as Ulduar, but on par with BC raids.

    Beside that it was awesome. I still prefered BC overall, but i will always remember coming for the first time in Howling Fjord with that music, seeing the harpooned ship etc.
    Last edited by Gratlim; 2021-01-10 at 12:44 AM.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Begrudge View Post
    Raid finder didn’t exist, dungeon finder didn’t come out till late in the expansion, the community was completely different
    I believe LFR made its debut in Cataclysm for DS

    Edit: misread /facepalm

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