Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[Ivanstone]

Crazy how Leftists really love to shoehorn Child Porn analogies into entirely unrelated discussions. @Endus are you doing alright?

Crazy how conservatives made a pedophile Speaker of the House in 1999.

[Wildberry]

The Pedo Pizza Parlor was already brought up... as was the conspiracy theories about all the election fraud that didn't actually happen.

I'm not sure why you happened to bring this up, I agree, kooky stuff! Sort of like Systemic Racism, Sex Positivity, etc. There sure are some weird people!

Systemic racism does have evidence backing it.

Not really, and the proponents of systemic racism routinely make claims that are contradicted outright by available, credible evidence. Couple that with their hostility to any challenges, or alternate explanations and you have the perfect recipe for a dangerous cult.

Great job dropping a link with a vague description though. Since we're playing that game, would you mind working through the following?

https://sci-hub.scihubtw.tw/10.1177/1948550618775108

It's a good starting point, I feel.

And if you'd like a more substantive response, might I suggest formatting your argument better? I'll use a post of mine as an example.

Yet another false equivalence, Systemic Racism is not a Conspiracy, Flat Earth is.

The only difference is status. Both rest on misinformation & flawed understandings. One appeals to otherwise well-educated people, the other does not. I don't really see too much of a difference between a Schizophrenic on Youtube showing me pictures from Google Earth demonstrating that the "horizon isn't curved!" and some Brookings Institution midwit using methodologically flawed data to push something that isn't true.

If there's any difference I can immediately point to, it's that the latter is worse, only because there aren't many policy changes that one could actually make, even if they believed the Earth was flat; however, there are quite a few bad changes that could be made if you believe in "systemic racism."

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Because it's the worst possible thing that's censored that I feel we'd both agree upon as being vile and worth censoring.

It's really not that complicated, and the insinuation you're trying to draw regarding me completely ignores my motive in using that particular example.

It was just an honest question, because it really does seem to be frequently used as a go-to among certain people. I really don't see the equivalence between Child Pornography &, even on the extreme end, ethnocentric political views, though.

[szechuan]

if you believe in "systemic racism."

Yet again, it's not a belief it's a reality around the world.

[Wildberry]

Crazy how conservatives made a pedophile Speaker of the House in 1999.

Terrible isn't it. It's a good thing I really don't care too much for the Republican Party of the late-90s & early 2000s & can easily condemn all of this stuff because it's not only gross, but I also luck out for not being emotionally invested to the degree you likely assumed when writing this. Principles are great!

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Yet again, it's not a belief it's a reality around the world.

Okay, that's all well & good. I'm sure Q-anon is going to save those Mole Children or whatever soon enough, too.

[D Luniz]

Crazy how conservatives made a pedophile Speaker of the House in 1999.

they made Rush Limbaugh an honorary house member to

[Endus]

It was just an honest question, because it really does seem to be frequently used as a go-to among certain people. I really don't see the equivalence between Child Pornography &, even on the extreme end, ethnocentric political views, though.

FWIW, there's explicitly not intended to be any such connection. It's an attempt to completely avoid any political entanglements and get at the actual principles.

If I brought up race-based issues, racists would use that as an excuse to be racist, for one, but they'd also claim it's their right to be racist, and we're now discussing whether they're racist and whether that's justified, not what "censorship" really means and whether it's ever good.

Using an obviously-horrible example that I expect no one to actually support the free expression of, we can actually talk about censorship itself, since we're not gonna get into the "is child porn really wrong?" debate (again, I fuckin' hope not, at least, jesus christ).

It's entirely because A> it isn't a political football, and B> everyone agrees it's horrible and abusive and should be censored. That's the whole reason. I haven't come up with another good option that fits the bill, frankly.

[For_The_Horde]

About as crazy as conservatives finding pedo rings in pizza places.

The red hats live for conspiracies and false "information" that fits their own narrow (and at this point unhinged) worldviews.

WARNING, CRAZY NONSENSE, FAKE NEWS, WARNING





These nutters are planning for Trump to overthrow the government any day now, like actually planning for it. Its like Y2K, but stupider and far more dangerous for people who don't believe them. This is precisely why Parler needs to get shut down by whoever hosts their service.

[Wildberry]

FWIW, there's explicitly not intended to be any such connection. It's an attempt to completely avoid any political entanglements and get at the actual principles.

If I brought up race-based issues, racists would use that as an excuse to be racist, for one, but they'd also claim it's their right to be racist, and we're now discussing whether they're racist and whether that's justified, not what "censorship" really means and whether it's ever good.

Using an obviously-horrible example that I expect no one to actually support the free expression of, we can actually talk about censorship itself, since we're not gonna get into the "is child porn really wrong?" debate (again, I fuckin' hope not, at least, jesus christ).

It's entirely because A> it isn't a political football, and B> everyone agrees it's horrible and abusive and should be censored. That's the whole reason. I haven't come up with another good option that fits the bill, frankly.

That's fine, but I still feel it's not really an appropriate comparison. Child Pornography necessarily requires the abuse of a child, which is a crime. Barring any calls for genocide, most of the extreme end of ethnocentric politics either rests on advocacy for actions or policy that's already legal, or simply suggests changes to existing laws (eg, "Freedom of Association" used to attack sections of the Civil Rights Act).

If we really have to use Sexual Abuse of Minors as an example, I think it's more appropriate to compare this sort of thing to, let's say, "Child Porn & Age of Consent-Abolition Activists." I don't really see the issue with people suggesting changes to laws on these issues. It's weird, I think it's deeply disgusting, but I'm also confident that they don't have a leg to stand on if any of them were pressed on their usual arguments.

[Xeones]

lol holy fuck that is delusional.

[Belize]

The red hats live for conspiracies and false "information" that fits their own narrow (and at this point unhinged) worldviews.

[IMG]https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/82163/977B08AE-AA17-43EB-8A27-42F4DE1AC40C_png-1772059.JPG[/

[IMG]https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/160435/lin-1772143.png[/G]

These nutters are planning for Trump to overthrow the government any day now, like actually planning for it. Its like Y2K, but stupider and far more dangerous for people who don't believe them. This is precisely why Parler needs to get shut down by whoever hosts their service.

Mental illness is very real and very serious

[Ivanstone]

Terrible isn't it. It's a good thing I really don't care too much for the Republican Party of the late-90s & early 2000s & can easily condemn all of this stuff because it's not only gross, but I also luck out for not being emotionally invested to the degree you likely assumed when writing this. Principles are great!

Dennis Hastert wasn't removed from his post because he was a pedo. Principles were nowhere in sight.

However since you need recent examples of conservative creeps how about: Roy Moore, George Nader, Tim Nolan, Ralph Shortey?

I know there's more out there but I need to get back to WoW. Suffice to say if you're a conservative poster, don't bring up child porn and similar nasty stuff. There's plenty of people here who will slap you down for being shitty.

[Fencers]

You love to see it!

Lots of places seem to be calling for the resignation of Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, Tommy Tuberville Cynthia Lummis, Roger Marshall, and Rick Scott.

[szechuan]

Okay, that's all well & good. I'm sure Q-anon is going to save those Mole Children or whatever soon enough, too.

Which has nothing to do with the reality of Systemic Racism around the world.

[Endus]

That's fine, but I still feel it's not really an appropriate comparison. Child Pornography necessarily requires the abuse of a child, which is a crime. Barring any calls for genocide, most of the extreme end of ethnocentric politics either rests on advocacy for actions or policy that's already legal, or simply suggests changes to existing laws (eg, "Freedom of Association" used to attack sections of the Civil Rights Act).

They suggest those changes to the law because they want to commit the crimes those laws prevent, dude.

You're also missing the point. You do get that analogies aren't tautologies, right? You're comparing two different things. Pointing to the differences misses the fact that it's an analogy.

[Wildberry]

These nutters are planning for Trump to overthrow the government any day now, like actually planning for it. Its like Y2K, but stupider and far more dangerous for people who don't believe them. This is precisely why Parler needs to get shut down by whoever hosts their service.

Yeah, this sort of stuff is legitimately and unironically crazy, but I really do not think you're going to get good results by getting them kicked off from Parler. I'm taking a break from the sarcasm elsewhere, I can see this spiraling out of control very quickly, regardless of who you ban, or what terms you enact on any given platform, so I'd really suggest something a little less heavy-handed.

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Dennis Hastert wasn't removed from his post because he was a pedo. Principles were nowhere in sight.

However since you need recent examples of conservative creeps how about: Roy Moore, George Nader, Tim Nolan, Ralph Shortey?

I know there's more out there but I need to get back to WoW. Suffice to say if you're a conservative poster, don't bring up child porn and similar nasty stuff. There's plenty of people here who will slap you down for being shitty.

Dislike all of those people, and "I'm imagining you like these guys" isn't actually a great argument. I'm also not suggesting that sexual deviancy is exclusive to the Democratic Party or Leftists in general. Thanks for playing, I guess?

Which has nothing to do with the reality of Systemic Racism around the world.

You can use words like "reality," all you like. It's not going to change the fact that the arguments in favor of systemic racism don't really hold up to scrutiny very well. Much like Climate Change Denial, Flat Earth, or Q-anon.

They suggest those changes to the law because they want to commit the crimes those laws prevent, dude.

I get that. I don't have a problem with people suggesting changes to laws for any reason. They're going to lose the argument, because there's no reason to allow Child Pornography or Abolish the Age of Consent (At least without introducing some fantastical qualifiers elsewhere). If they want to argue for their right to be freaks, let them, they're going to lose.

You're also missing the point. You do get that analogies aren't tautologies, right? You're comparing two different things. Pointing to the differences misses the fact that it's an analogy.

I'm not suggesting they are. I just think comparing "Child Pornography" to "Racism" is a bit inappropriate. At best, the two things aren't really comparable, at worst, it poisons the well. Neither seem desirable.

[Wildberry]

That is absolutely not true, the fact you equate it to Flat Earth, and Qanon show's how uneducated you are.

I see you're invoking the status difference I mentioned earlier. Yes, studies from the Brookings Institution that help prop up some of these absurd claims are totally reliable. African Americans really do use drugs as much as whites, but they're arrested for it more! That's really horrible and we need to completely restructure society to solve it!

[Machismo]

I'm not sure why you happened to bring this up, I agree, kooky stuff! Sort of like Systemic Racism, Sex Positivity, etc. There sure are some weird people!


Not really, and the proponents of systemic racism routinely make claims that are contradicted outright by available, credible evidence. Couple that with their hostility to any challenges, or alternate explanations and you have the perfect recipe for a dangerous cult.

Great job dropping a link with a vague description though. Since we're playing that game, would you mind working through the following?

https://sci-hub.scihubtw.tw/10.1177/1948550618775108

It's a good starting point, I feel.

And if you'd like a more substantive response, might I suggest formatting your argument better? I'll use a post of mine as an example.



The only difference is status. Both rest on misinformation & flawed understandings. One appeals to otherwise well-educated people, the other does not. I don't really see too much of a difference between a Schizophrenic on Youtube showing me pictures from Google Earth demonstrating that the "horizon isn't curved!" and some Brookings Institution midwit using methodologically flawed data to push something that isn't true.

If there's any difference I can immediately point to, it's that the latter is worse, only because there aren't many policy changes that one could actually make, even if they believed the Earth was flat; however, there are quite a few bad changes that could be made if you believe in "systemic racism."

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It was just an honest question, because it really does seem to be frequently used as a go-to among certain people. I really don't see the equivalence between Child Pornography &, even on the extreme end, ethnocentric political views, though.

Well, did you work through mine, or did you ignore it?

Since you ignored my peer-reviewed evidence, why are you insisting I read your source? That's the very definition of intellectual dishonesty right there. And considering your source uses mine as a reference, I suggest you read it.

Damn, you got owned by your own source.

So, not only did you not bother to read a peer-reviewed source, you argued against yourself, and lost.

Sad!

[szechuan]

You can use words like "reality," all you like. It's not going to change the fact that the arguments in favor of systemic racism don't really hold up to scrutiny very well. Much like Climate Change Denial, Flat Earth, or Q-anon.

Yet you're the one denying that Systemic Racism even exists is a big problem in America and are constantly trying to equate it to Conspiracies.

[Mehrunes]

18 USC 1111 defines first-degree murder, not the felony murder rule.

Except USC 1111 most definitely defines felony murder, as felony murder isn't a separate degree of murder and it just so happens that on federal level (and in most of the states) it is considered first degree murder... Which is why I quoted the part that is felony murder alone... Also, the Capitol is federal property so federal law applies. Which is why it's already been reported the justice department has opened a federal murder case in regards to the killed police officer.

[Wildberry]

Unarmed black men die via police so regularly that nobody even cares anymore it's just what goes on in the USA, but I see videos of police OPENING the gates for armed white people in order to storm the CAPITAL BUILDING OF THIS COUNTRY and allowing them to storm the place.

But yeah tell me how systematic racism doesn't exist

I can pick cherries, too! Would you like me to link footage of cops marching in solidarity with BLM Activists? Perhaps you'd like the post-curfew crackdown of the supposed insurrection at our Sacred Temple of Democracy™.

As far as Police killings of Blacks, the numbers are largely where we'd expect them to be, given other figures such as crime rates, breakdowns of cop killers by race, etc. It's actually probably not the case that the police, flawed as they are, are really just venting racial prejudice across the board.

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Well, did you work through mine, or did you ignore it?

Since you ignored my peer-reviewed evidence, why are you insisting I read your source? That's the very definition of intellectual dishonesty right there. And considering your source uses mine as a reference, I suggest you read it.

Damn, you got owned by your own source.

So, not only did you not bother to read a peer-reviewed source, you argued against yourself, and lost.

Sad!

Man asks if his source has been read after not reading provided source. More at 11.