Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[Fencers]

They are beyond being comparable and it's beyond reprehensible that all of this could have been avoided if not for systematic racism and the police and ''whites'' feeling like they are on the same team. And nothing I'm saying isn't hard to verify google anything I just claimed you will find the videos/photos easily I imagine.

None of which is 'cherry picking' either. As we have stark and immediate contrast in the behavior of officers on the steps literal seconds before rioters rushed in and say, last summer tear-gassing protesters (not breaching the capitol) so Trump could hold a bible upsidedown in front of a church he said he never visits.

Those are two major events. We have a contrast.

[Wildberry]

You guys are letting that guy lead you along with irrelevant nonsense. He's already broken the rules with a few of his posts no need to keep engaging.

What rules have I broken? I'll amend my posts right away the moment you point them out, Mr. Hall Monitor, sir!

You're the one Assuming.

I'm not actually, but congratulations for working in the "No you" routine even here.

Lets hear your competing hypothesis.

It's a multifaceted problem with the largest issues being economic disparities, human population differences & cultural differences + the resulting differences in lifestyle choices.

[szechuan]

I'm not actually, but congratulations for working in the "No you" routine even here.

You're absolutely the one making the assumptions that other people are only making "Assumptions" on documented issues of Racism in America.

[Mehrunes]

In fact, shameful terms of Versaille treaty and excess punishment of Germans after WW1 led to social demand for someone like Nazis and 3rd Reich. Try to read some history first.

Yeah, no. This is revisionist, Nazi-excusing bullshit. The terms of Versailles were the most lenient of of the treaties with central powers. The Treaty of Trianon was harsher, the Treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Laye was harsher, the Treaty of Sèvres was harsher. Yet for some weird reason the Hungarians weren't spreading deluded drivel about their treaty being "proof" that the Jews and socialists stabbed them in the back and Turkey didn't even engage in WWII until the very end (which it did on the same side of as the victors of WWI, and even then mostly to appease Stalin).

What's even better is that the Treaty of Frankfurt that ended the last pre-WWI Franco-Prussian war, the war that the Germans won and were the ones to impose the treaty on the French, was also harsher. And so was the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk that Germany forced Russia to sign in the middle of WWI, as Russia was getting fucked sideways by other Russians of the more communist persuasion. And for equally weird reason you didn't see Russians justifying their WWII warmongering antics with "but muh Brest-Litovsk gave us no other choice".

[Wildberry]

You're absolutely the one making the assumptions that other people are only making "Assumptions".

I'm really not actually, and if you followed along a little better you might see why that's not what's happening.

What version of "NOU" am I going to get in response?

[postman1782]

That's exactly what it is. "Systemic Racism" is Q-anon for Affluent White Liberals.



That's precisely what it is, actually.

Wait, you are so racist that you don't think systemic racism exists? Did you see the difference between the rallies in June and so on for BLM and whatnot in Washington versus the domestic terrorists on Wednesday? BLM was met with thousands of National Guard, Trump supporters were literally let in the building, with police escorts.

If that isn't systemic fucking racism, I don't know what is.

[Daelak]

What rules have I broken? I'll amend my posts right away the moment you point them out, Mr. Hall Monitor, sir!


I'm not actually, but congratulations for working in the "No you" routine even here.



It's a multifaceted problem with the largest issues being economic disparities, human population differences & cultural differences + the resulting differences in lifestyle choices.

Where did those economic disparities arise from? You will have to go into more detail regarding what "population differences" mean, as well as cultural differences.

[sirmixalot]

I see you're invoking the status difference I mentioned earlier. Yes, studies from the Brookings Institution that help prop up some of these absurd claims are totally reliable. African Americans really do use drugs as much as whites, but they're arrested for it more! That's really horrible and we need to completely restructure society to solve it!

If that's how you understand systemic racism with your one tired and nonsense drug line then it's not wonder you're so fucking clueless.

[Machismo]

Here's the deal, if you'd like to do something other than make snarky shitposts that just show me you've used Ctrl+F & immediately jumped to a ridiculous conclusion about the source provided, you're free to do so. Until then, I'm not responding to bad faith posts, it's not worth it, and you're not smart enough to get it until proven otherwise.

Feel free to meet the standard!

Here's the deal, if you'd rather do something other than be intellectually dishonest to shill for racists, then show me that you've read, and didn't jump to a ridiculous conclusion about the source provided. I'm going to keep responding to your bad-faith posts, because you are continuing to support racism, and lie.

So, my evidence stands.

Enjoy!!!

[szechuan]

I'm really not actually, and if you followed along a little better you might see why that's not what's happening.

You said it yourself.

You said

and assuming that the reason must necessarily be racism

You're the one making assumptions, not others.

[Fencers]

Yeah, no what I mean is we might want to give consideration to other ideas as to why those inequalities might arise. All we're doing right now is looking at unequal outcomes, and assuming that the reason must necessarily be racism, even if there aren't any racists, such as Officer Larry in your example. I don't really see why that must be the case, or why other causes for disparities should be disregarded.

That doesn't make sense... even your earlier post mentioned "figures" relating to African-Americans and crime specifically.

What is such data measuring if not (by your admission) a common cultural group (African-Americans) and crime; Phrenology?

Systemic racism/bias is exactly what the terminology describes and the kind of data analyzed; racial group or ethnic groups and various institutions (justice, social-economic systems, etc).

Whether or not there are actual "racists" as you put it, is not relevant. Individual racism is not a factor or a point of analysis necessarily. That is a separate area of study and thought from systemic racism or systemic bias.

These are not the same things and it seems your disagreement with the notion of systemic racism/bias also includes a lack of actual robust study on the topic. And I do mean as in scholarly.

[Wildberry]

Wait, you are so racist that you don't think systemic racism exists? Did you see the difference between the rallies in June and so on for BLM and whatnot in Washington versus the domestic terrorists on Wednesday? BLM was met with thousands of National Guard, Trump supporters were literally let in the building, with police escorts.

If that isn't systemic fucking racism, I don't know what is.

Well apparently you really don't know what is because that's already been addressed:

I can pick cherries, too! Would you like me to link footage of cops marching in solidarity with BLM Activists? Perhaps you'd like the post-curfew crackdown of the supposed insurrection at our Sacred Temple of Democracy™.

Where did those economic disparities arise from? You will have to go into more detail regarding what "population differences" mean, as well as cultural differences.

Largely Neoliberal Economic Policy & Deindustrialization, which hasn't been very kind to Whites, either. It's a stretch to attribute current Black economic conditions to the legacy of Jim Crow perpetuating itself, & people worried about the disadvantaged in the US would be much better off putting the screws to literally every US administration since Reagan. Honestly, the only people that really ought to escape blame are Economic Progressives & Paleocons. Everyone else in the US deserves to be raked over the coals.

As far as population differences, to put it in a way that I won't be immediately infracted for, "diversity found among and between human populations that has a biological basis."

On Cultural Differences, that's a gray area, but one worth exploring. In short, different cultures in the US are naturally different. Those, to whatever degree, influence lifestyle choices, which themselves impact group outcomes. The success of Asian-Americans, for example, can be attributed to many things, but something we might want to consider is that Asian-American Culture is admirable & promotes things that we ought to promote.

[Machismo]

Imagine comparing BLM activists to white supremacists who tried to murder the Vice-President...

[Elegiac]

Largely Neoliberal Economic Policy & Deindustrialization, which hasn't been very kind to Whites, either. It's a stretch to attribute current Black economic conditions to the legacy of Jim Crow perpetuating itself

Because you say so. Right.

people worried about the disadvantaged in the US would be much better off putting the screws to literally every US administration since Reagan

Por que no los dos? They're not mutually exclusive problems.

As far as population differences, to put it in a way that I won't be immediately infracted for, "diversity found among and between human populations that has a biological basis."

Pretty sure that's because what you're describing is racism in the current context. Shocker.

On Cultural Differences, that's a gray area, but one worth exploring. In short, different cultures in the US are naturally different. Those, to whatever degree, influence lifestyle choices, which themselves impact group outcomes. The success of Asian-Americans, for example, can be attributed to many things, but something we might want to consider is that Asian-American Culture is admirable & promotes things that we ought to promote.

/yawn

Get out of here with that "Asians are a model minority" talking point, it's fuckin 2021.

Sullivan's piece, rife with generalizations about a group as vastly diverse as Asian-Americans, rightfully raised hackles. Not only inaccurate, his piece spreads the idea that Asian-Americans as a group are monolithic, even though parsing data by ethnicity reveals a host of disparities; for example, Bhutanese-Americans have far higher rates of poverty than other Asian populations, like Japanese-Americans. And at the root of Sullivan's pernicious argument is the idea that black failure and Asian success cannot be explained by inequities and racism, and that they are one and the same; this allows a segment of white America to avoid any responsibility for addressing racism or the damage it continues to inflict.

[Mehrunes]

That's . . . just ignoring what the felony murder rule is. It isn't about the definition of what is/is not a murder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule

You should really read what you use as a source. Whooping first paragraph:

The rule of felony murder is a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when an offender kills (regardless of intent to kill) in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (called a felony in some jurisdictions), the offender, and also the offender's accomplices or co-conspirators, may be found guilty of murder.

Now compare it to the specific part of USC 1111 that I quoted previously:

Every murder (...) committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, escape, murder, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery; or perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children (...) is murder in the first degree.

Lo and behold, "committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate (insert specific crimes)" is precisely what "when an offender kills in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (which is precisely what I mentioned in my original post, by the way)" means.

For god's sake, if you actually read the section on US in this article, which you clearly did not, you'd have noticed that the reference (the only one, as nothing more is really needed) for what falls under felony murder on federal law level is Cornell Law School's page on USC goddamn 1111. So congrats on shooting yourself in the foot.

[Wildberry]

Here's the deal, if you'd rather do something other than be intellectually dishonest to shill for racists, then show me that you've read, and didn't jump to a ridiculous conclusion about the source provided. I'm going to keep responding to your bad-faith posts, because you are continuing to support racism, and lie.

So, my evidence stands.

Enjoy!!!

I'll take that as "I'm too lazy to come up with an actual argument, I thought I could just drop a source from someone I believe is reliable & call it a day, I absolutely faceplanted with my Ctrl+F stunt, so now I'm going to say you're a bad person."

Lol, okay midwit.

What is such data measuring if not (by your admission) a common cultural group (African-Americans) and crime

That's precisely what it measures.

Whether or not there are actual "racists" as you put it, is not relevant.

That's literally what I said:

the reason must necessarily be racism, even if there aren't any racists...

These are not the same things and it seems your disagreement with the notion of systemic racism/bias also includes a lack of actual robust study on the topic. And I do mean as in scholarly.

Feel free to give me a definition for "Systemic Racism."

[Elegiac]

That's literally what I said:

Ah yes, the Crash/Bright/Disney's Pocahontas brand of Hollywood racism wherein racism can only exist if there are angry individuals actively doing the racism.

That's not how it works in reality, sweetie pie. Racism is an inherently systemic phenomenon and the attempts to explain it away as a function of a few bad apples are as inane as the concept of a personal carbon footprint.

[Machismo]

I'll take that as "I'm too lazy to come up with an actual argument, I thought I could just drop a source from someone I believe is reliable & call it a day, I absolutely faceplanted with my Ctrl+F stunt, so now I'm going to say you're a bad person."

Lol, okay midwit.


That's precisely what it measures.



That's literally what I said:




Feel free to give me a definition for "Systemic Racism."

Once again, you spoke about peer-reviewed sources, then literally immediately ignored a peer-reviewed resource.

Now, your source loved it so much, they used mine as a reference.

So, my evidence stands.

[Rozz]

Let's stop the above and go back to whatever topic existed prior to the derail.

[postman1782]

Well apparently you really don't know what is because that's already been addressed:





Largely Neoliberal Economic Policy & Deindustrialization, which hasn't been very kind to Whites, either. It's a stretch to attribute current Black economic conditions to the legacy of Jim Crow perpetuating itself, & people worried about the disadvantaged in the US would be much better off putting the screws to literally every US administration since Reagan. Honestly, the only people that really ought to escape blame are Economic Progressives & Paleocons. Everyone else in the US deserves to be raked over the coals.

As far as population differences, to put it in a way that I won't be immediately infracted for, "diversity found among and between human populations that has a biological basis."

On Cultural Differences, that's a gray area, but one worth exploring. In short, different cultures in the US are naturally different. Those, to whatever degree, influence lifestyle choices, which themselves impact group outcomes. The success of Asian-Americans, for example, can be attributed to many things, but something we might want to consider is that Asian-American Culture is admirable & promotes things that we ought to promote.

Yeah, you don't know what it is. Thanks for confirming that.