Did I just turn to bad healer or do tanks really suck now.

[kail]

What exactly is being tanked? On high M+ keys, much of the trash is not even "tankable" without some insane CD, it's more often kited while holding aggro. DKs are not in the greater spot where they take most of the damage compared to any other tank. You're not supposed to heal all of the damage, a good amount of that is the BDK's job.

So with high M+ being more and to mitigate packs, DKs are stuck with the awkward talent row where they have to sacrifice a mobility CD for the DnD slow.

[Logwyn]

I just don't like running 5mans with a Disc priest healing.

[Merlunie]

Anything but demon hunters are easy to heal.
DHs are popular because they deal high dps.
But they are so squishy that you can often barely heal the group

This is so far from correct. Why would DH be the number 1 tank right now in m+ where in any key above 10 you have a decent amount of group damage going out?

Please think before spouting incorrect non sense.

[doodle90]

If you have details you can see the uptime of bone shield/ spikes on DH. A lot of times crappy DK will not keep bone shield up and healing them absolutely hellish. It is night and day healing a good one vs a bad one.

[GnomeEU]

This is so far from correct. Why would DH be the number 1 tank right now in m+ where in any key above 10 you have a decent amount of group damage going out?

Please think before spouting incorrect non sense.

Let's agree to disagree then. Duh.
They are popular because they deal high dps as I said.
If you think a rogue is a tank, then a dh is a tank yes.

To me demon hunters are rogues that can hold threat.
I need only 50% HPs to heal all other tanks tho.
So yes they always annoy me because they're giving me a heart attack when healing.

Dh in 14 plus keys. Jumps into group without hots while I'm drinking. Dies in 2 globals. Must be best tanks in the game you're right.

I reject many groups with dh tanks unless the dh is over geared with lots of XP.
More groups for you to join my friend.

[Freeghost]

What i noticed, are tanks that dont know what the trash does. This is especially crucial in fortified weeks. Like Mists, the soulcleaver mobs. If the tank doesnt use mitigation for the hit, he will just drop to like 10%, with 2 40% dmg increases, and insta die.

It can be a very different run if you have a good tank who knows when to use his cds/mitigation.

[WskyDK]

Let's agree to disagree then. Duh.
They are popular because they deal high dps as I said.
If you think a rogue is a tank, then a dh is a tank yes.

To me demon hunters are rogues that can hold threat.
I need only 50% HPs to heal all other tanks tho.
So yes they always annoy me because they're giving me a heart attack when healing.

Dh in 14 plus keys. Jumps into group without hots while I'm drinking. Dies in 2 globals. Must be best tanks in the game you're right.

I reject many groups with dh tanks unless the dh is over geared with lots of XP.
More groups for you to join my friend.

You don't bring a VDH for their damage, you bring them for their mobility, control, and chaos brand so your boomy can pump

[Merlunie]

Let's agree to disagree then. Duh.
They are popular because they deal high dps as I said.
If you think a rogue is a tank, then a dh is a tank yes.

To me demon hunters are rogues that can hold threat.
I need only 50% HPs to heal all other tanks tho.
So yes they always annoy me because they're giving me a heart attack when healing.

Dh in 14 plus keys. Jumps into group without hots while I'm drinking. Dies in 2 globals. Must be best tanks in the game you're right.

I reject many groups with dh tanks unless the dh is over geared with lots of XP.
More groups for you to join my friend.

You did not address the main point. You said "they are so squishy that you can often barely heal the group."

That is incorrect. At a 20 when prideful is ticking for huge amounts and the DH is tanking how do they heal the group?

I've healed and tanked high keys on multiple toons. DH is by far the easiest spec to heal. There is no agree to disagree. You are wrong. Just because you play with terrible demon hunters doesn't mean they're squishy. They are spikey, but they handle it well. Much better than a BrM who is not spikey, but will tick down due to low health pool overall. DH's are the best tank by far right now and its not super close. You should listen to high level players discuss the topic as it is much more in-depth that "They do damage KEKW".

Please check out https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...d/leaderboards


There is a reason there is only one BRM and one Prot Pally for like the first 5-6 pages.

I will see if I can find the VOD of Limit Max talking about the tanks. Yes VDH does damage, but that is not the sole reason they are good. Nor are they "super squishy" to the point where you can't heal the group.

If you can't do it, but hundreds of other people can... the other people aren't the problem. You are.

[Thraps]

Anything but demon hunters are easy to heal.
DHs are popular because they deal high dps.
But they are so squishy that you can often barely heal the group

DH's are not only just popular because of high DPS , its the fact they are also the most tankiest tank right now, also coupled with the fact they have great utility all round

[GrumpyNugget]

I used to like playing as resto but currently mythic and m+ feels so exhausting sometimes.

Especially with DK but not only one.

Even with precasting regrowth on pulls they pretty much get one shot more often than I would like to.

And with DK often "okey he is doing fine" keeping 90s and bam. Dead. Had no time to use CD and pop insta.

Not to mention no time to side-dps on pugs because dps take damage all the time. This weeks affix and melee dps... And of course they blame healer.


Bosses otherwise are breeze and afkfest.

Maybe it is just pugs.. Constantly only one who put up cc, soothe and dispel.

I would understand on some 12+ etc. plus but on lowers..

First week was blast but maybe it is just these affixes.

Tips on spiteful with melee dps? keeping hots does not seem to be enough and god damn tank keeps taking all my instant and regrowth casts.

I can comment on this!

I either play a tank or a healer. When I play a tank, a friend of my heals me and vice versa. So we are a tank/heal combo.

I can tell you, we have the same experience, however we can communicate to eachother when I (as a blood dk) have no cds availble for the next trash pack for example. I either kite more, or I am very carefull (and so is the healer). We do it the other way around as well. This makes it a bit more bareble, but still there are some tricky pulls for sure, espescially when DPS decide to pull aggro before I do and i have to do crisis management.

So in short. I seriously think there is nothing wrong with your healing, it is just more sketchy at the beginning of a expension, where everyone is still learning some trash packs.

I for example only figured out after 100 mists runs that those soulcleavers hurtttttt. Alot of the DPS is still not aware of that, but I rather have them nuked down asap.

[Whitestrifexp]

DH's are not only just popular because of high DPS , its the fact they are also the most tankiest tank right now, also coupled with the fact they have great utility all round

also they give that very good buff 5% magic dmg which synergises well with firemage and balance druid who are top dps in m+ At the moment.

That tanks need to kite trash in keys above +8 (bloodpools aside) is not my experience.

I played up to +15 intime (1100 rio which is average) and I know good ppl play keys in the +20 range. On highend keys with orange Rio-Color ofc you need to kite, slow, cc etc. But +8? Come on! You are doing something wrong.

My advice: Try the swiftment legendary. Paired with flourish cenarion ward with 5 addional hots will be active for 30seconds+. So you can have 2 CWs out haha. You dont even have to heal that much. You can dps meanwhile while the tank gets around 5k hps. :-)

[Shedaar]

Anything but demon hunters are easy to heal.
DHs are popular because they deal high dps.
But they are so squishy that you can often barely heal the group

I wouldn't say "easy" but the post is mostly true.
DH jumps in, uses demonic spikes, gets some aggro and you gotta get the fk out from the pack or be obliterated.

[Artale]

As a pretty well geared (193) Brewmaster I feel like even a +4 is too high. So much random damage taking off 50-70% off my health bar within a global. The first few trash packs in Mists have these mobs that hit me for 14-15K post-Stagger with their uninterruptable Shadow damage bullshit. That's about 35-40% of my healthbar or something? And there are packs that have 2 of those mobs.
As a Healer I feel like any Tank might aswell have been a DPS with aggro. Some die faster than my Priest.

[Jazzhands]

I used to like playing as resto but currently mythic and m+ feels so exhausting sometimes.

Especially with DK but not only one.

Even with precasting regrowth on pulls they pretty much get one shot more often than I would like to.

And with DK often "okey he is doing fine" keeping 90s and bam. Dead. Had no time to use CD and pop insta.

Not to mention no time to side-dps on pugs because dps take damage all the time. This weeks affix and melee dps... And of course they blame healer.


Bosses otherwise are breeze and afkfest.

Maybe it is just pugs.. Constantly only one who put up cc, soothe and dispel.

I would understand on some 12+ etc. plus but on lowers..

First week was blast but maybe it is just these affixes.

Tips on spiteful with melee dps? keeping hots does not seem to be enough and god damn tank keeps taking all my instant and regrowth casts.

DKs are usually kind of all over the place, I think they just got buffed so I'm guessing they aren't doing well.

As far as crap DPS, if they ever give you shit just link their damage taken and point out all the avoidable damage they could have not taken and lived.

And yes, pugs are often garbage, especially on any fortified week because most people below +10 think trash mechanics don't matter so they don't do them. Actually doesn't even need to be fortified but that obviously makes it worse.

[Aggrophobic]

As a pretty well geared (193) Brewmaster I feel like even a +4 is too high. So much random damage taking off 50-70% off my health bar within a global. The first few trash packs in Mists have these mobs that hit me for 14-15K post-Stagger with their uninterruptable Shadow damage bullshit. That's about 35-40% of my healthbar or something? And there are packs that have 2 of those mobs.
As a Healer I feel like any Tank might aswell have been a DPS with aggro. Some die faster than my Priest.

You are no longer supposed to actually tank though. You take aggro then you kite as much as possible.

[Vampyrr]

I wouldn't say "easy" but the post is mostly true.
DH jumps in, uses demonic spikes, gets some aggro and you gotta get the fk out from the pack or be obliterated.

As a DH tank the only time I really needed to kite was Necrotic week. Or if someone pulls an extra pack or the healer dies. Otherwise I can just stand in and tank without too much issue. Use cds like silence or the fear and pop meta when needed for spikey packs.

[Shedaar]

As a DH tank the only time I really needed to kite was Necrotic week. Or if someone pulls an extra pack or the healer dies. Otherwise I can just stand in and tank without too much issue. Use cds like silence or the fear and pop meta when needed for spikey packs.

I don't believe this, unless you are tanking below 12, or pully only 1 pack at the time.
This is untrue and impossible.
Try tanking initial pull of 2 entrance mobs + 2 mobs deeper + hunter and 2 bears at the beginning of atonement which is one of classical pulls - without kiting - you will die no matter what defensives you will use, unless you slow and kite. Even without loyal beasts cast.

[schwank05]

I used to like playing as resto but currently mythic and m+ feels so exhausting sometimes.

Especially with DK but not only one.

Even with precasting regrowth on pulls they pretty much get one shot more often than I would like to.

And with DK often "okey he is doing fine" keeping 90s and bam. Dead. Had no time to use CD and pop insta.

Not to mention no time to side-dps on pugs because dps take damage all the time. This weeks affix and melee dps... And of course they blame healer.


Bosses otherwise are breeze and afkfest.

Maybe it is just pugs.. Constantly only one who put up cc, soothe and dispel.

I would understand on some 12+ etc. plus but on lowers..

First week was blast but maybe it is just these affixes.

Tips on spiteful with melee dps? keeping hots does not seem to be enough and god damn tank keeps taking all my instant and regrowth casts.

Feels like its tanks, IMO playing a Holy Pally and boss fights are a breeze, but the trash pulls with 300 one shot mechanics each is definitely where I struggle. I also noticed how shit Blood tanks seem to be and Ill lump Warriors in with them as well both seem squishy and pointless. I will not run with anything other than a Pally, Druid, Demon Hunter or Monk tank as they all seem to take little to no damage and are extremely easy to heal up.

I gave up on Druid Healing after Cata when they wanted you to cast heals... F that, I rolled Resto to run around and blanket the 25 man raid with hots and never run out of mana.

[NatePsy]

Resto Druid... I've seen the DK getting spiked to near death all the time. It scares me and leaves little room to heal the group.

Their HP tends to ping pong but if you're having issues like that it's definitely on him not playing the spec properly. Not keeping bone armor stacks up, failing to use main toolkit: Death Strike and probably too concerned with doing DPS than mitigation. Sadly a lot of tanks love to do DPS and leave it up to the healer to mitigate most the damage going out.

- - - Updated - - -

I also noticed how shit Blood tanks seem to be and Ill lump Warriors in with them as well both seem squishy and pointless.

Yeah they're currently trying to increase the survivability of both tanks so we'll see where that leads them in a few weeks.

Blood
[With regional restarts] Bone Shield grants armor equal to 70% of Strength (was 50%).

^ Is one such change coming after reset, so you should feel a bit of a survivability increase with Blood DKs.

[kosajk]

I mean sure, but I was forced off my pally who can stun the vampire casting the enrage, into a DH for raid. So now I'm at the mercy of others for stuns..feelsbad

hmm you have imprison and sigil of misery (assuming you took talent for it to get 1 sec activation) should be more than enough, its rather long cast and they don`t use it that often

Moooks have lowest HP pools of all tanks, low armor and the fact that stagger doesn't mitigate the damage, it just delays the inevitable

they don't die from direct hit but from the dot afterwards

you are aware that monks can cut that staggered dmg by half every couple sec with purifying brew?
Its basically core of their defense