Older Race than the Trolls? (Maybe Spoilers)

[KOUNTERPARTS]

So when you do the weekly dungeon quests from the Brokers in Oribos, the one for De Other Side has this quest completion text:







"a forgotten, primitive race"



Could there have been a race that came before the Trolls? Or perhaps a race that eventually became the first Trolls?


Or do you think it could be referring to a race that existed on an entirely different planet instead of Azeroth?


EDIT: Ian Bates (Red Shirt Guy) who posted the original made an interesting connection to the 'Vol'jin: Shadows of the Horde' novel from 2013:

Hmm, maybe this is the race Bwonsamdi referred to in Shadows of the Horde when he asked Vol'jin "what did we call ourselves before we called ourselves trolls?"

Interesting developments...

[Caerule]

Interesting. In the Vol'jin book the Loa also mention to Vol'jin that Trolls were something different before they struck their bargain with the Loa and received their blessing, gaining their Troll properties.

I've often speculated what it was. Drogbar (Stone Trolls), Grell (Which have Trollish features), Spriggans (Which Muah'zala seems to hold sway over and are beings of nature).

It's not been mentioned ingame before though, so this definitely has my interest. Trolls are the one race we lack the true origin of. Which also impacts elves.

[Netherspark]

Interesting. In the Vol'jin book the Loa also mention to Vol'jin that Trolls were something different before they struck their bargain with the Loa and received their blessing, gaining their Troll properties.

I've often speculated what it was. Drogbar (Stone Trolls), Grell (Which have Trollish features), Spriggans (Which Muah'zala seems to hold sway over and are beings of nature).

It's not been mentioned ingame before though, so this definitely has my interest. Trolls are the one race we lack the true origin of. Which also impacts elves.

The Drogbar were created by Deathwing, and it's hinted that they were made from Goblins. I have long guessed that Trolls (and Goblins) evolved from Grell.

[The Saar]

Interesting. In the Vol'jin book the Loa also mention to Vol'jin that Trolls were something different before they struck their bargain with the Loa and received their blessing, gaining their Troll properties.

I've often speculated what it was. Drogbar (Stone Trolls), Grell (Which have Trollish features), Spriggans (Which Muah'zala seems to hold sway over and are beings of nature).

It's not been mentioned ingame before though, so this definitely has my interest. Trolls are the one race we lack the true origin of. Which also impacts elves.

They say in wow that Bwom'samdi saw the birth of the troll race. So they could be talking about his race. I guess he was some kind of "proto troll".
But like you said. "In the Vol'jin book the Loa also mention to Vol'jin that Trolls were something different before they struck their bargain with the Loa and received their blessing, gaining their Troll properties."

Maybe Bwom'samdi and his race became actual trolls that we know them as today when they made deals with the loa, especially Muah'Zala. In fact... I think Muah'zala is above the loa. He is prob the actual troll god if you ask me. He had the power to forge vol'jin into a loa in fact!

[Caerule]

The Drogbar were created by Deathwing, and it's hinted that they were made from Goblins. I have long guessed that Trolls (and Goblins) evolved from Grell.

While we agree on Grell as a possibility, I do believe you are mistaken on two other things.

1. Goblins, we know their origin from Chronicle. They are related to Pygmies, and they were actually a creation of Mimiron's experiments with Kaja'mite. Pygmy origin itself is unknown. But I would theorize they are a degenerate form of (Mecha-) Gnome, the same way Troggs are a degenerate form of (Earthen) Dwarf. Which would make Goblins an attempt by Mimiron to restore intelligence to a fallen form the Titans' creations. Initially a failure, until further Kaja'mite exposure later in their history.

2. Drogbar. While they were slaves of Deathwing in the past, I know of no source that claim they were created by Deathwing. The only one to speak of their origin that I know of is Xal'atah, who implies they are failed Titan creations. "More of the titans' failed experiments grow here unchecked. The drogbar prove their failure as creators."

[Psykho]

They say in wow that Bwom'samdi saw the birth of the troll race. So they could be talking about his race. I guess he was some kind of "proto troll".
But like you said. "In the Vol'jin book the Loa also mention to Vol'jin that Trolls were something different before they struck their bargain with the Loa and received their blessing, gaining their Troll properties."

Maybe Bwom'samdi and his race became actual trolls that we know them as today when they made deals with the loa, especially Muah'Zala. In fact... I think Muah'zala is above the loa. He is prob the actual troll god if you ask me. He had the power to forge vol'jin into a loa in fact!

Mueh'zala isn't the one who made vol'jin a loa, he made Bwonsamdi a loa though

[The Saar]

Mueh'zala isn't the one who made vol'jin a loa, he made Bwonsamdi a loa though

Oh really? My bad then. So we still don’t know who it was?

Atleast he was the one who whispered to Vol’jin to make Sylvanas warchief.

[Sagenod]

The Drogbar were created by Deathwing, and it's hinted that they were made from Goblins. I have long guessed that Trolls (and Goblins) evolved from Grell.

They weren't created by Deathwing, just enslaved by him.

Personally I hope the Trolls are Azeroth's sole indigenous humanoid species and not the result of cosmic and/or deific forces meddling with life. It would be nice if they kept one thing simple in that regard.

[MikeBogina]

Oh really? My bad then. So we still don’t know who it was?

The whole valor thing and whatever was going on with him in BFA is kinda weird, like they didn't have it figured out yet, but in Shadowlands he is fused or well absorbs the essence of of Rezan and basically will be reborn as the Loa of Kings in time.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Mueh'zala isn't the one who made vol'jin a loa, he made Bwonsamdi a loa though

Yup, he says so in De Other Side dungeon to Bwonsamdi

What does chronicles say about the origin of the trolls?

[StillMcfuu]

The whole valor thing and whatever was going on with him in BFA is kinda weird, like they didn't have it figured out yet, but in Shadowlands he is fused or well absorbs the essence of of Rezan and basically will be reborn as the Loa of Kings in time.

Maybe, the Winter Queen specifically states she doesn't completely understand what Vol'jin is. He is still a mortal soul, but its infused with Loa energies. She says he is welcome to "rest" in Ardenweald, but doesn't know what if anything will happen to him.
Going from simplistic wow writing, he will likely just be reborn as the new Loa of Kings. But maybe they'll throw us a curveball.

There is also the "tied" to Azeroth aspect, so its possible Azeroth is the one who is pulling the strings.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Maybe, the Winter Queen specifically states she doesn't completely understand what Vol'jin is. He is still a mortal soul, but its infused with Loa energies. She says he is welcome to "rest" in Ardenweald, but doesn't know what if anything will happen to him.
Going from simplistic wow writing, he will likely just be reborn as the new Loa of Kings. But maybe they'll throw us a curveball.

There is also the "tied" to Azeroth aspect, so its possible Azeroth is the one who is pulling the strings.

Yeah having Bwonsamdi be the Loa of Kings is just weird and too unfitting.

[Ardenaso]

isn't there some lizard species that look like the Zandalari? it has their skin color, cracked skin, tusks, and also their regenerative abilities

[jellmoo]

To be fair, the phrase "...a forgotten, primitive race that worshipped Mueh'zala" doesn't necessarily mean that the race is older than the Trolls. Just that there was a race that wasn't technologically advanced that has since been forgotten.

It's entirely possible that the race came after the Trolls, just that they never really advanced and then vanished, and are no longer remembered.

[Unbelievable]

isn't there some lizard species that look like the Zandalari? it has their skin color, cracked skin, tusks, and also their regenerative abilities

You mean Saurok?

I've long speculated that Trolls came from Lizards, as their regenerative powers are similar to that of reptilian species, and their general love for reptilians.

The Zandalari skin color and Rocky scales look like that of Akunda.

They, also, bear resemblance to the Lizardmen of Warhammer, who are also based on the Aztecs and use Dinosaurs.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

You mean Saurok?

I've long speculated that Trolls came from Lizards, as their regenerative powers are similar to that of reptilian species, and their general love for reptilians.

The Zandalari skin color and Rocky scales look like that of Akunda.

They, also, bear resemblance to the Lizardmen of Warhammer, who are also based on the Aztecs and use Dinosaurs.

Yeah but the Saurok were created by Lei Shen (or during his reign)... and back then, there were already Zandalari.

[Soulwind]

You mean Saurok?

I've long speculated that Trolls came from Lizards, as their regenerative powers are similar to that of reptilian species, and their general love for reptilians.

The Zandalari skin color and Rocky scales look like that of Akunda.

They, also, bear resemblance to the Lizardmen of Warhammer, who are also based on the Aztecs and use Dinosaurs.

I think he meant these

[Unbelievable]

Yeah but the Saurok were created by Lei Shen (or during his reign)... and back then, there were already Zandalari.

I didn't say they were. I just asked him.

I think he meant these

Can these creatures worship Muez'hela?

[Soulwind]

Can these creatures worship Muez'hela?

Well, maybe Muez'hala started as a Wild God for such animals, and evolved the most loyal ones (and himself) into humanoids. Like Ursoc and the furbolgs.

[Unbelievable]

Well, maybe Muez'hala started as a Wild God for such animals, and evolved the most loyal ones (and himself) into humanoids. Like Ursoc and the furbolgs.

They have, always, been humanoid, though.