Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[DKjaigen]

Biden has no capacity to ship jobs overseas. Any measure he could take to try and prevent jobs being moved overseas would, necessarily, harm the American economy. Tariffs and such to disincentivize outsourcing really only serve to increase prices for American consumers. "Globalism" is essentially a fact of life, not a political opinion, and it's been that way for decades.

Also, those jobs being shipped overseas largely aren't middle class. Jobs get shipped overseas because the labor required is cheap, and they can get it a little bit cheaper in another country.

What you're really complaining about unchecked capitalism, not Democrats. The shrinking middle class is a developed nation problem, not an American problem; https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/11/busin...ort/index.html The villain is capitalist economics, which encourages wealth to pool at the top, leading the middle and working classes to stretch their ever-shrinking portion of the pie wider and wider. You'd have to aim for policies which tax the rich strongly, lighten burdens on the lower and middle classes, and provide greater support for those in need. In other words, what the Democratic platform basically proposes. Even if you want to argue it doesn't go far enough, it's a big step from the status quo Trump has dug the country into, and nobody's argued it's the endpoint target, just the target for the next four years.

What they propose and what they will accomplish are 2 different things. I want to tax the rich as much as you do but as long as the globalist economy is functioning it will not happen and they will simply evade taxes. At this point corporations have to much political pull on your goverment. And you can already see it happening. Biden is already filling his kabinet with slimy corpo fucks.

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Because they elected Trump, yes. Biden will at least work on some of those issues. And perhaps in a few decades the US will have grown enough to be ready for a social democratic leader. Gradual change is what will win out in the end I believe.

But we didnt see any improvements under Obama or Clinton either.

[Endus]

What they propose and what they will accomplish are 2 different things.

And this is where you claim prophetic visions of the future and we're expected to still take you seriously.

I want to tax the rich as much as you do but as long as the globalist economy is functioning it will not happen and they will simply evade taxes.

Tax evasion isn't that difficult to put an end to. The measures they use to do so are a manufactured exception, not a natural truth.

At this point corporations have to much political pull on your goverment. And you can already see it happening. Biden is already filling his kabinet with slimy corpo fucks.

Another person for the "apparently unaware that Endus is Canadian, despite clearly listing that in his Location and openly talking about it constantly" list.

[JohnBrown1917]

What they propose and what they will accomplish are 2 different things. I want to tax the rich as much as you do but as long as the globalist economy is functioning it will not happen and they will simply evade taxes. At this point corporations have to much political pull on your goverment. And you can already see it happening. Biden is already filling his kabinet with slimy corpo fucks.

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But we didnt see any improvements under Obama or Clinton either.

Oh you mean how all of the Gop always goes for any policy that only benefits the ultra rich

[DKjaigen]

And this is where you claim prophetic visions of the future and we're expected to still take you seriously.

You could see the graveyard of left wing parties here Europe that all behaved like the democrats. History is repeating itself.

Tax evasion isn't that difficult to put an end to. The measures they use to do so are a manufactured exception, not a natural truth.

I cant take this shit seriously. In the netherlands alone the USA is losing billions in tax evasion.

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Oh you mean how all of the Gop always goes for any policy that only benefits the ultra rich

of course the GOP does that.

[Dezerte]

But we didnt see any improvements under Obama or Clinton either.

Not too read up on Clinton, but Obama did things. Most notably M4A, which was half-arsed because of concessions needing to be made but still a move towards universal healthcare. There's probably a lot more that I'm missing, but this notion that voting for the far-right is somehow going give you left-wing policies is absurd. You need to go left if you want more left-wing policies, even if it's just small increments and small victories.

Again, I think the US is going to need a few decades of consistent Democratic majority before you can realistically be at a point where the US can enact the same programs that the more social democratic Europe has.

[JohnBrown1917]

You could see the graveyard of left wing parties here Europe that all behaved like the democrats. History is repeating itself.



I cant take this shit seriously. In the netherlands alone the USA is losing billions in tax evasion.

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of course the GOP does that.

And you keep voting for them.

[Monster Hunter]

Except Mein Kampf was released years before that election and in it Hitler was already railing how the sacrifice of German soldiers at the front would not have been in vain if thousands of "Hebrew corrupters" had been killed at the start of the war. To make your point even weaker, killed specifically by using poison gas on them. The Germans just merrily ignored that.




All of a sudden? No. But that's precisely why the idea that Hitler's rise to power was a natural reaction to Versailles is horseshit. Hitler was the natural next stage of combining the prior millennium of German history with the propaganda machine of WWI German Empire that was, until the very end of WWI, feeding its population bullshit about how the great German nation is on the eve of victory (which made the Germans rather confused when Germany "suddenly" lost).

Because Germans had supremacist tendencies long before Hitler was even a sperm in his father's ballsack. The Second Reich and the Kingdom of Prussia spent most of their treason-based existence brutally Germanizing the "lesser people" of the empire and even the HRE doesn't have its hands clean in that department.

And when you get a nation convinced that they should have won WWI, which then lead to delusions about how you must have been betrayed from within ("obviously" by the "lesser people" you so "generously" tried to turn into "cultured" Germans) in order to lose it, switching gears from Germinizing the Untermensch to eradicating the Untermensch was a natural progression.

Especially when you get a punch of Nazis "just saying as it is" then utilizing that paranoia and knocking the stab in the back myth into the 12th gear with their populism.




And? The mere fact of losing a war, or even individual battles, was seen as humiliating back then, as it lowered the nation's prestige. Political humiliation like having to accept blame for a war you lost does not cause genocidal rage in normal people.




Speaking of the payment, the Germans were never really expected to pay the C bonds part of the whole thing. Then, as you said, the payment they were actually paying was reduced on top of that. And even that aside, it's not the reparations that fucked the German economy, but the global recession and Germany's handling of it, i.e. the reluctance to drop the gold standard. Which wasn't even unique to them, all the countries that were slower to drop the gold standard were affected more harshly by the Great Depression, whether they were paying reparations or not.




Made void how? Russia lost a third of its population and half of its industrialized territory. From the territories it lost , it regained only eastern Ukraine and most of Belarus in relatively short time. They had to wait till the start of WWII to get the rest back. Germany only had the Rhineland demilitarized and it took the Nazis less time to remedy even that than it took Russia to regain most of its lost territory.

Except main kampf was written after the Putsch attempt when he was imprisoned, and it sold extreamly poorly, and its also not censored most places today.

[Endus]

I cant take this shit seriously. In the netherlands alone the USA is losing billions in tax evasion.

You notice how you point to a specific country? That's because it's entirely to do with how laws are structured, not some natural truism.

The Netherlands has zero capacity to effect this process all by its lonesome. It only does so with the agreement of the nations with which it has tax treaties that spell this stuff out. Those countries could plug these gaps in their own tax laws, themselves.

You're pretending these are companies exploiting governments, but in reality, it's governments acting to serve companies.

[Shadowferal]

Not too read up on Clinton, but Obama did things. Most notably M4A, which was half-arsed because of concessions needing to be made but still a move towards universal healthcare. There's probably a lot more that I'm missing,

It was a GOP plan, made by the health insurance lobby.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Systemic racism is not merely racial prejudice. If the "figures" are suggesting these affect African-Americans disproportionally, that is systemic.

That is the exact problem defined and purpose of the terminology to point out the processes and circumstances that affect a group more than another- as a system. Not necessarily that Officer Larry hates blacks.

Yeah a lot of people seem to equate Racism with someone said something once and hurt my feelings. Like no people aren't risking their lives and protesting to be shot and killed because the cops hurt their feelings.

People are protesting murder and the systematic justice system that seems to hold black people to a lower burden when it comes to extreme force, processing and sentencing.`

[Mehrunes]

Except main kampf was written after the Putsch attempt when he was imprisoned, and it sold extreamly poorly, and its also not censored most places today.

I know it was written when he was imprisoned. Just so happens that took place a few years before he won the elections, precisely like I said. If you're trying to claim that the book was suppressed by the state with this bit, you'd be wrong. The state was extremely lenient on Hitler and he had frequent visitors in prison, with whom he exchanged ideas and talked about the book he was writing. Not to mention he was abruptly released after just 9 months.

And the book sold extremely poorly when you look at the whole population. It was still popular among proponents of Nazism. Who according to you totally didn't know what Hitler was in favor of. Despite Mein Kampf being the outline of his politics, that they supported. Then there's the fact that a book's sales are not required for the content of a book becoming known to the public.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Not to wade in to the argument you having, just want to point out that particular statement is a massive over simplification of a complex part of German history, and not entirely true.

The weirmar Republic was like most goverments of the time heavily involved in censorship, examples being the censoring of the proletarian film Kuhle Wampe, the nazis did under go harsher censorship in the the early days, especialy after the Putsch, after the Putsch, and hittler was released from prison the nazi party changed tactics from a revolutionary party to an electoral one just with nefarious motives, in that vain there propaganda changed and what they were saying changed so as to appear legitimate and dodge the censorship that other extream parties like the communists had imposed on them.

So its not as black and white as people wish to think of that time period, hittler didn't stand up looking to get his first members elected to parliment by screaming about gassing Jews, if people bothered to look at the election posters the nazis produced in 1932, there are very few ive managed to find that even todays censors would block, and most of his propaganda isnt much different from whats produced by many partys across the western world today. Hitler's campaign focused on the economic issues of Germany, and used family motifs, conservative values mixed with a heavy use of the german worker and working class imagery taking charge over the elite and the rich, not all that dismilar from the drain the swamp propaganda of trump tbh.

This part is very true but there are some exceptions things to consider. Yes the most loaded and harmful language isn't going to be stopped by censorship provided free speech is recognized by the state as opposed to a private company like say Twitter.

That doesn't mean language can't be harmful, see the previous editions of the DSM, there are terms and language used that by today standards wouldn't go over as well.


However the problem you miss is that populism which is what Hitler mostly leaned into actually requires a different frame of language than it did in his time. Words that didn't go over peoples heads then, might land differently today.

As such while YES the language can simply be changed to say the same things a more eloquent way. The Ideas really won't land with out the ones most basic with the platforms.


And right not the Alt-Right lost every leg they had to stand on when ALL of these company's in concert and with the approval of the majority now agree it's fine to take these white supremacist and their values for things like conspiracy theories to take a hike.

[Orange Joe]

Nah they will push their own agendas to my knowledge the right in America doesn't really do racial politics. I'm not really sure what they will push for much like I couldn't tell you what the left would of pushed a decade ago. If you told me they would push hard to allow prepubescent children to get sex changes I wouldn't of taken you seriously during the lgbt marriage days.

As shown all over these boards. your "knowledge" on America is severely lacking.

[Noxx79]

Irrelevant nitpicking. The biggest decline of the middle class is because is how trade between america and china was used by the corporations. Biden has no problem on shipping all the well paying middle class jobs straight to china.

You misspelled “trump”

[Orange Joe]

snip

Pretty sure he is just upset that he knows he is on a far side so nothing he wants it going to be pushed.

[alexw]

I cant take this shit seriously. In the netherlands alone the USA is losing billions in tax evasion.

The reason this happens is because of international standards on taxation which are set at the OECD level. These are then transcribed into law by individual nations.

There has been a significant fairly recent push by a number of nations to make changes to these standards that would close these loopholes and prevent what you are describing. But you know what nation has by far the greatest influence at the OECD and could make it happen, but has instead spent the last 4 years fighting tooth and nail to keep the status quo? Yes, the USA, and specifically, the Trump administration. It has been absolutely adamant that as little change be made as possible and has ended up getting what it wanted so the status quo pretty much remains.

If you want this to stop then you need to support a different party. Its long been said that republicans vote against their own interests, and at least on economics issues its 100% true. The things that you hate that are making republican voters poorer are overwhelmingly a result of the republican party using your votes on gay rights, abortion, guns, etc, to put money in their pockets and take it out of yours. That won't change until you stop voting for them. And as long as you right-wingers continue to vote for them they will continue to make you poorer.

[DKjaigen]

And you keep voting for them.

I voted for a populist and a political outsider i have no further use for the mainstream GOP

[Edge-]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...dc/6603721002/

More on the Republicans who are complicit/helped make this happen. Reps. Paul Gosar, Mo Brooks, and Andy Biggs were all thanked by name by the organizer of the event. Remember, the guy that said he was willing to "give my life for this fight"?

[Elegiac]

I voted for a populist and a political outsider i have no further use for the mainstream GOP

The Republican Party got a lot of voters in Sweden, huh? :rofl:

[Edge-]

Oh man, so I know someone brought up the "BLACK PANTHERS DID IT FIRST" nonsense before being slapped down by the truth, but I was poking around a bit and it's so much better than someone grossly misrepresenting what was a known, planned, peaceful protest that left when asked.

They were protesting a gun control law. That was passed and signed into law by Governor Ronald Reagan. Who went on to say this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

Governor Ronald Reagan, who was coincidentally present on the capitol lawn when the protesters arrived, later commented that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons" and that guns were a "ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will." In a later press conference, Reagan added that the Mulford Act "would work no hardship on the honest citizen."

Oh man, who knew that Reagan was such a libcuck. No wonder these hicks don't have an ideology, their party hasn't had one that's not based on pretty basic bigotry for decades.