Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varodoc]

Void elves: Are the most played Allied Race by far.

Some people on MMO-Champion: Oh I know what Blizzard should do, they shouldn't give any new customization options to Void elves, because they don't deserve them!

When I tell you that some people around here need to go out more and get in touch with reality, I mean it, because some around here are so bad at understanding how human logic works.

[Yarathir]

Void elves: Are the most played Allied Race by far.

Some people on MMO-Champion: Oh I know what Blizzard should do, they shouldn't give any new customization options to Void elves, because they don't deserve them!

When I tell you that some people around here need to go out more and get in touch with reality, I mean it, because some around here are so bad at understanding how human logic works.

Some people are just very spiteful. This group also seems to overlap with the group that thinks Blood Elves should've gotten the most customization and are borderline offended that some races got more.

[Varodoc]

Some people are just very spiteful. This group also seems to overlap with the group that thinks Blood Elves should've gotten the most customization and are borderline offended that some races got more.

And as I also said earlier, only WoW nerds could get spiteful over additional pixel customizations.

These people who complain probably don't even play elves LOLOL, they all have troll or orc avatars.

[ravenmoon]

Exactly.. sadly Tanaria doesn't like the idea of Silvermoon and Suramar going to the alliance, so obviously this is a problem for her, but then, this thread became this thread because people like her didn't like the idea of high elves becoming playable on the alliance, and moaned about the high elf threads that were being created, which is why we got this one, and now on this one they don't want us talking about high elf stuff going to the alliance.

So they want to talk about high elves and blood elves, Nightborne etc, but don't want to talk about them returning to the alliance, what that would mean, and how that might change or effect the game and what would need to be in place to make it work very well. See what's going on?

Want to guess why they say things like that? It's simple, they don't like the idea. not because it's wrong or bad, or in violation, they don't like it so they come up with all sorts of rubbish b/s nonsense to end the conversation. Fortunately, posters like yourself and myself aren't buying it. And we don't really care if they have a problem with it and were not afraid to tell them so.

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All this verbosity and you can't even address the fact that Blood Elves have been part of the Horde for 14 years, against the 2 they were not on it in WoW.

Your premise is based on a flawed and inaccurate perception of faction identity, you saw the problem of Blizzard trying to force dichotomous aesthetic identity between factions -which was dumb on the first place- and decided that the solution is to double down on that nonsense, and determine what aesthetics and themes "belong" to which faction.

Again, your premise is based around the idea that blood elves and Nightborne identity -elven themes- are alliance themes. That's just not accurate to put it mildly. Your whole argument starts with a supposition, one that you are doing zero work to even build and just pretend everyone follow along because you think it's true.

With little evidence, go on claiming that the alliance is more excited about Night Elves and high elves rather than any other races, and at this point is just clear you just want more elven thematic predominance on the Alliance.

This is all about what you want and you keep wasting everyone's time by making these long ass responses -you wanna tire people out? Because you are not doing it for clarity's sake, circling around the same poor arguments over and over- Cause again, it seems that you can't accept that "elven" themes don't belong to either faction, and instead -without making a compelling argument- claim they belong to the alliance.

All of that, because for all you dislike that there are so many elven themes on the Horde, you agree with Blizzard's nonsense of enforcing aesthetic differences between factions over the very lore they have written.

And to top it all, fail to see any nuance to what "elven" themes even are, when it's pretty clear alliance elves and horde elves have distinct identities.

Just say you are salty because the Horde has the fanciest elves and the Alliance doesn't and go.

And you know, what irks me the most about your endless argumentation is that's just a selfish and shallow want that you keep trying to "justify", when it would be far more sympathetic if you were honest about it and asked for fancier elves on the alliance -such a Highborne- instead of being an ass and trying to tell people elven identities don't belong on the Horde -you know, where they have been for the last decade and a half?-

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Yet there's a serious overlap now, so BE and Worgen are not the exception anymore with more AR further blurring the perceived dichotomy. Of course there are some themes that feel wholly Horde/Alliance -mostly related to orcs and humans, and it makes sense- but there's clearly more of an spectrum of identities/themes regarding to faction rather than a dichotomous binary.

And even while I don't think that -perhaps humans and orcs- any race's themes belong to either faction, the Fancy Elf theme has always been more of a Horde thing holistically, High Elves in War2, and later Night Elves, were always framed as closer to nature, while the Horde's elves are definitely the aspects of their cultures that are more sumptuous and elegant.

@ravenmoon keeps claiming elven themes belong to the alliance, when he fails to even address this difference and instead tries to group all the "elven themes" as one thing, when the differences between, say, Night Elves and Nightborne is self evident. So while Elves were part of the alliance first, the Fancy and Elegant Elf was never a theme specific to the alliance as it is to the Horde.

Which IMO? Kinda moot, because I don't even agree we need strongly enforced thematic and aesthetic dichotomy for every racial group-but if you are going to use it as an argument, you gotta put all the facts on the table

A whole load of eloquent nonsense. You totally miss what I'm trying to say, why I am saying, and what I am basing it on. Why? Because you are not reading what I'm saying properly.

Blizzard wants the to keep the core of their franchise based on the alliance and horde faction in the original vein that captures the heart or preservers the core of the franchise. To that end, my "doubling" down is EXACTLY what achieves this.

You failed to pick up me saying numerous times, that there are other things they could do, and still do, but if they want to do what they claim they want to do, this will give them the best shot at it.

You have yet to make a convincing or compelling argument as to why it won't work, or why it's a bad idea. Saying that the fancy elf thing has always been a horde thing is so silly when the elves themselves are alliance themed through and through and all those "fancy "elements are alliance based and themed. It doesn't matter if there presentation in game has been longer on the horde, that's irrelevant, they are still alliance themed, and based. The alliance is based on that very thing.

As long as they continue like that they will always be the expression of the alliance on the horde. And if you can't see how this is problematic to the "core of Warcraft" and the faction dichotomy they so want to preserve, then you're not as smart as you appear to be.

I just suspect you don't like the idea, or maybe it's me you don't like, so you are one of these people that will disagree with whatever the people you hate or dislike say, no matter what it is, no matter how much sense it makes or even if it was a truth your very life depended on - because you've spent too long holding grudges, having internet arguments and are petty that way.

I sincerely hope you are not one of those and that suspicion is wrong. However it's hard to think that because you're against everything I say - and don't seem to be understanding it correctly - which I suspect is not because you are not capable, but because you don't care to be, and just don't like it.

@ravenmoon keeps claiming elven themes belong to the alliance, when he fails to even address this difference and instead tries to group all the "elven themes" as one thing, when the differences between, say, Night Elves and Nightborne is self evident. So while Elves were part of the alliance first, the Fancy and Elegant Elf was never a theme specific to the alliance as it is to the Horde.

Which IMO? Kinda moot, because I don't even agree we need strongly enforced thematic and aesthetic dichotomy for every racial group-but if you are going to use it as an argument, you gotta put all the facts on the table

Sigh, I'm going to try and explain this again. it doesn't matter who was in the alliance first or not, elves and humans in Warcraft have been around a lot longer than the alliance. The alliance is built on and represents the things elves and humans have in common and are about. that's why I used the term alliance themed or alliance based.

Whether it's the night elf pre-sundering civilization that all Highborne and Nightborne are based on, or the high elf kingdom, or the human nations, or Dalaran. that's alliance core..
now in time we've see other new and unique things added to the alliance, the long vigil druidic side of the night elves doesn't fit that mould, but it was added to the alliance and could have been it's own unique faction, even though the pre-sundering civilization fits the alliance mould, but variations are acceptable, it's even acceptable to have the orcs on the alliance or the humans and elves on the horde - however if you want the "core" of Warcraft, to be maintained or enforced, you shouldn't. Also if you want the alliance to be popular again, you wanna look at returning the high elves and the Night elves sitting on the horde back to them.

And in case you don't understand what I mean by that statement.. i mean REMOVE FROM THE BLOOD ELVES AND THE NIGHTBORNE EVERYTHING THAT IS HIGH ELVEN AND NIGHT ELVEN BASED - I.E. CIVILIZATION, CULTURE,, CHARACTER ETC anything that looks like or is based on alliance or is alliance themed.

You must do a similar thing to what they did to the undead humans, become something new, something very different. The naga are an example of this, as are the San'layn, the Pandaren, the Venthyr - these are things that are don't feel alliance nor are they based on alliance. Sure they have similarities but they're different enough - do this and the factions will feel different and unique they would have their core elements on their respective factions only, rather than having some of the alliance core elements on the horde like we do now in what the blood elves and Nightborne are. They can then add unique elements like the Pandaren, the Long vigil night elf society, the Forsaken etc, to each faction without creating a same feel or having too much the same on both factions.

What you don't seem to be getting is that it's blizzard that want this original core of Warcraft maintained. I've supported removing the factions, or removing faction restrictions form players because as things are in wow, factions do not make sense. one of the reasons this is is because the horde basically has strong alliance elements in it via the Blood elves and the Nightborne, in fact the best presentation of alliance themes exists on the horde in the blood elves and Nightborne - how can you do something like that and expect the alliance not to keep losing numbers and drawn over to the horde. While for sure it's not the only reason, it's the biggest one. if you like alliance whether in the past or the things the races stand for, you jump on the horde and you see a better version of it in the blood elves and the Nightborne like Thalyssra - i mean, you're just asking those alliance types to pick horde over it, and you're also making factions less relevant or meaningful because you got alliance on both, and they're now a lot more similar than different - what's the point??

This is why horde has identity issues, half the players expect it to be the alliance thanks to the blood elves (high elves) and the Nightborne (Highborne Night elves), and it's writers are torn, it has no cohesion or unity like it did in classic and before.. and this has nothing to do with visuals.. they could have done a beautiful or sexy/hot honour bound race, majestic and advanced that had nothing to do with the alliance or it's values, themes and concepts, or at least far less.. but they picked an alliance race.. i.e the blood elves/high elves to fix the horde popularity problem but then insist on sticking to the original core of Warcraft when they're maintaining those elves in their very alliance centred high elven and night elven civilization ways.

Change it... take the high elf and night elven pre-sundering stuff on the horde back to the alliance where it belongs and where the alliance is based on and develop remaining blood elves and Nightborne into something else, you'll fix the problem.

Alliance will get high elves, and get a pre-sundering night elf Highborne civilization (i.e. the height of the night elves) in addition to its void elves, and druidic/priest kaldorei - but this is fine, elves are an alliance centre race, you can have 4 human groups and4 elven groups on the alliance, just like you can have 5 troll groups and 6 orc clans too on the horde because orcs are horde. or 4 Tauren ones (Mulgore, Taunka, Yaungol, Highmountain), I see no problems with high elves, void elves, night elves and Highborne night elves on the alliance. With that stuff gone, the blood elves can rebuild elsewhere, so to the remaining Nightborne who don't return to being Highborne night elf types, and be developed into something unique.

Alliance get their high elves, their night elven civilization [Highborne society] along with their void elves and remaining priest, druid, demon hunter night elven sects and all that elf stuff associated with the alliance can be on the alliance, while the blood elves and Nightborne become something different -and unique - not alliance based, not alliance themed and not alliance styled - whether in character, culture, civilization or aesthetics, architecture and appearance. They keep the blood elf model (the Nightborne is already unique - Nightborne who became Highborne would gain night elven models,) only the blood elves will look like High elves, but the blood elf development will get new features, cool ones, that players can add as customisations (optional ofc), but they'd be cool, to entice players to change their blood elf appearances and prefer the new horde development that the alliance high elves won't get, leaving the alliance ones to the generic high elf - this is how you'd do it for model options. The horde won't lose the ability to roll blood elves, those who like their blood elf as is now will continue to be able to choose those appearances, it's just that the blood elves will no longer have high elf stuff nor be behaving or operating as high elves anymore.

This I believe will go a long way to fixing it.

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Yes, this is a very good approach imo, I even will say you are one of the few who cares for the actual theme of the void elves and not just want blood elves on the alliance.

The hair colors are slighty different and even that blonde color doesnt clash with the other elf race and fit them great.

I agree that blood elves need more, the 40 new options they gave us are realy just false adversiting and the count face 1 with beard 2 and face with1 with beard 2 already as 2 options.. well great Ofc we can all count like that, but in the end actual new options.. maybe 10.

The new options we got in general arent all that much to begin with.

You mean it's great if it is not high elves, these people want highe lves too.

however, yes, those hair themes are appropriate for void touched void elves. However if you're giving void elves high elf skin tones, you might as well give them all the hair colours too, because we do have high and blood elves that have joined the ren'dorei and have not been touched by the void physically.

So it's not that people who suggest high elf hair colours don't understand void elves, they want high elves, even if those high elves are high elves who've joined the void elves and are playable that way. That's why this is the High elf thread, not the Void elf thread.

I do like @Kyriani 's suggestions though, I would love them for void elves and I think blizzard should focus on giving more void elf themed options and rather than give the full blood elf range of hair colours, just give a few, with some slightly different ones to represent high elves. I have no interest in playing high elves, but I like them and I feel they should be available on the alliance and in fact more prevalent on the alliance than the horde, and that includes Silvermoon and Quel'thalas.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

SNIP

Honestly, as long as you keep saying "elves are alliance themed" as it makes any sense, this is just pointless. I really think we can't have a productive discussion when I simply wholly dismiss that premise.

EDIT: Honestly, just yeeted a whole wank about the "alliance are elves themed" and forced faction dichotomy because that's just such a huge nonsense and worse, has little to do with the conversation about High Elves

[Ardenaso]

sigh, bring back Obelisk Kai

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

sigh, bring back Obelisk Kai

Urgh, I hate myself for admitting I'd prefer him over Ravenmoon's obsession with the Highborne Empire

[Varodoc]

sigh, bring back Obelisk Kai

Unless he's banned, he's free to show himself around here.

Of course, I wouldn't blame him for not doing so, since he spent God knows how many years no-lifing this forum just because he was salty at the idea of fantasy elves getting fair skin options. Everyone would clown his ass no doubt LOLOL.

[Beloren]

Urgh, I hate myself for admitting I'd prefer him over Ravenmoon's obsession with the Highborne Empire

I'm enjoying Ravenmoon's specials, his views are different and always seem so anti popular, i've grown a fondness for them.


He does make sense, but he isn't very agreeable. He doesn't say nice things and his focus is too obscure - it's like focusing on a small fringe part and blowing it up to huge proportions - it's weird because it's not that relevant, yet he makes enough noise about it. he may be correct in all his detail, but it really doesn't amount to much and sort of misses what's more central - but I have been entertained and have some good arguments. I have been swayed in some areas too - but one thing is absolutely clear.. this faction nonsense has to go.

My Alternative to Ravenmoon's Proposal
It is way too divisive.. I don't care if it it's the core of Warcraft, it doesn't make sense any longer - the blood elves aren't going back to the alliance, i think blizzard find that option even worse, which means there is only one realistic way they can go, and is to end the faction division - if not in all races, at least in some like the elves, goblins, forsaken Pandaren and possibly the Draenei should allow players to be able to choose their faction. Don't get me wrong, you have to belong to one of the two factions, but a few races can choose. it's like semi-flexibility - it's not removing the factions, but allowing more spread. each race can have a story as to why some of htier members can be on the opposite faction - whether they go neutral, or get further polarised.

These races aren't that central to the original alliance and horde - regardless of what faction their theme aligns with. With neutral elves, then the alliance can have as many high elves as they want, or Highborne, nightborne, night elves - and so can the horde. What I would do is I would write void elves to be alliance exclusive, and night elves neutral - with the only night elves you find on the alliance and the horde being Highborne ones - I would expand the Highborne to be interested in nature magic too, just like the nightborne have been so you would have some Highborne being druids. Afterall Highborne caste were basically the best kaldorei in all fields, not just arcane, although the arcane dominated. The purer night elves Malfurion/Tyrande types remain entirely neutral, leaving the younger races, but the Highborne types continue to want to shape and mould the destiny of the world and increase their knowledge.


Pandaren would also be neutral, to be honest, Huojin and tushui don't really make that much difference anyway, no one will care if they mix or they don't because you can have Pandaren either way.

Goblins is easy to see, they follow profit, not loyalties to a faction, while some individuals are exceptions, some cartels like the Steamwheedle would likely ally with the alliance, and the Bilgewater on the horde.

Forsaken already have a basis for existing on both factions thanks to recent lore and Calia, Lordaeron coudl be a centre for the two like Ravenmoon has suggested, where players can choose either faction they want to work as - as a human hater or one who is clinging to his humanity and loved ones. The forsaken would be more horde predisposed naturally, but the player would choose.

Draenei could be in either faction based on Naaru resurgence and the benevolence of the light that is willing to embrace all, and share all, causing Draenei and Lightforged to be willing to interact with races in both factions, and being motivated by the Light to bring peace and unity to all.

Thalassians would be neutral too, they don't like the horde in general, and it's true they have more in common with the alliance or the alliance is based on them too, but, recent events gives no compelling reason why they should switch to the alliance wholesale, neutrality is much more realistic, and players who roll them, can choose to be in the horde as blood elves or in the alliance as high elves.

Void elves could stay loyal to the alliance and would be a mark of Thalassians that are exclusively alliance.

Nightborne could undergo Ravenmoon's transformation and many return to being night elves thanks tot he Arcan'dor, but, because magic can be used to halt the reversion, some take it and some don't. Suramar will fall to neutrality and Nightborne who pick the alliance will be in the Night elf model, while those who stay on the horde will have the Nightborne model, - so while people can choose either faction, the models are locked to the horde.


This is a compromise that would work if they want to maintain some faction distinctiveness. @ravenmoon is suggesting they go full on separation and distinctiveness, I understand the point, it may very well work and accomplish all he says.. but is that really the direction warcraft should be going? I would present that the devs should instead re-examine their desire to keep that original horde and original alliance in that separate distinct facet. I think a compromise would be the better approach.

A bunch of less key races go neutral, but players who pick them have to choose a faction. There would still be only 2 factions, but certain races can exist on both.

Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Worgen (void elves) would be exclusively Alliance

Orcs, Troll, Tauren, Vulpera (nightborne) exclusively horde

All elves, Draenei, Goblins, Forsaken and Pandaren can choose a faction, but have to choose. You cannot remain neutral.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

SNIP

Yeah, but all of this has little to do with High Elves. Which is kind of an issue, cause of course this whole thread is wanky AF, but Ravenmoon's wank is just so rooted in him wanting Highborne culture to be a staple of alliance elves, he just wants to reach that conclusion in whatever way.

But regardless of Ravenmoon's motivation, the whole idea of strict faction dichotomy is something I highly disagree with, and not even the game seems to want to go with that since Pandaren, and now the VE/BE overlap.

At the end of the day, you can't make believable a geo-political division of two -allegedly, ostensibly- factions with both pros and cons, based on race. If they are both valid ideologies, forcing races to chose either based on aesthetics and themes just runs anathema to such idea. It really is just dumbing down the ideological complexity for "aesthetics" sake.

Yes, factions need stronger themes, but simply separating races by aesthetics is the laziest and worst way to do it. The Horde has finally found a glimmer of hope in the idea of being an egalitarian council, and giving both factions different power structures that reflects their beliefs does FAR MORE for faction identity than artificial segregation of races and their aesthetics based on a subjective whim.

That's EXACTLY why I wanted High Elves since WotLK; because the idea of ostensibly the same people, having so contrasting political and ideological views to the point they chose different factions added a whole new layer of complexity. They tried to add that concept actually with Pandaren, but it just came short to build an interesting context for that choice beyond a fraction of a leveling area. It's just a bummer than later on the same expansion we saw the best of that ideological schism within the same people in the Purge of Dalaran and Isle of Thunder, but with elves -rather than the actual race introduced as neutral lol-

[Tanaria]

Are we back to talking about how Blood Elves and Nightborne should be made sub-servants to the "Humans and Pals" faction?

[Beloren]

Yeah, but all of this has little to do with High Elves. Which is kind of an issue, cause of course this whole thread is wanky AF, but Ravenmoon's wank is just so rooted in him wanting Highborne culture to be a staple of alliance elves, he just wants to reach that conclusion in whatever way.

But regardless of Ravenmoon's motivation, the whole idea of strict faction dichotomy is something I highly disagree with, and not even the game seems to want to go with that since Pandaren, and now the VE/BE overlap.

At the end of the day, you can't make believable a geo-political division of two -allegedly, ostensibly- factions with both pros and cons, based on race. If they are both valid ideologies, forcing races to chose either based on aesthetics and themes just runs anathema to such idea. It really is just dumbing down the ideological complexity for "aesthetics" sake.

Yes, factions need stronger themes, but simply separating races by aesthetics is the laziest and worst way to do it. The Horde has finally found a glimmer of hope in the idea of being an egalitarian council, and giving both factions different power structures that reflects their beliefs does FAR MORE for faction identity than artificial segregation of races and their aesthetics based on a subjective whim.

That's EXACTLY why I wanted High Elves since WotLK; because the idea of ostensibly the same people, having so contrasting political and ideological views to the point they chose different factions added a whole new layer of complexity. They tried to add that concept actually with Pandaren, but it just came short to build an interesting context for that choice beyond a fraction of a leveling area. It's just a bummer than later on the same expansion we saw the best of that ideological schism within the same people in the Purge of Dalaran and Isle of Thunder, but with elves -rather than the actual race introduced as neutral lol-

The evidence is clear the game is going for more overlap not less, Ravenmoon wants less, or thinks less will fix the problems. IT's similar to his night elf posts, he wants the game to go back to the time when night elves were envisioned and looked like they were going to be this massive race of elves with pre-sundering and long vigil components - you remember him quoting the WC3 interview that showed the devs explaining that the night elves are the best of the dark elves and the forest elves combined right - and how he and Mace quote it famously - yet he failed to recognise that since the Nightborne blizzard has stopped or at least diverted from that grander vision of night elves and put them in forest elf direction almost entirely - which makes sense because the Nightborne now carry on that Highborne fantasy of the night elves.

Yes, blizzard didn't have to do that, blizzard could continue to have developed night elves as both forest and dark elf, but they didn't, the direction went away from where he felt it should go, and no amount of quoting the lore or showing us the lore would change that.. he was accurate in his information, but it didn't matter, blizzard have often changed the direction they've gone with races, and stories including the factions, and this is no different.

He wants the factions to go back to that original horde and alliance dichotomy and separation - he feels it will fix the current issues. it might do, it probably will, but if the developers don't want that for the game and instead choose to continue in this pseudo shared races with some races like they are going with blood elves, void elves, nightborne and Highborne - then surely he should give it a rest because that's not what they want to do, it's clear.

[Imperator4321]

how can you do something like that and expect the alliance not to keep losing numbers and drawn over to the horde.

For goodness sake the Alliance is not losing numbers to the Horde because of High/Blood Elves, its because the Horde has had significantly stronger racials for raiding and other endgame content for years now and it caused the culture around said content to shift mainly to the Horde, globally faction balance is more or less equal with more casual players leaning alliance and top-level players favoring the horde.

Even then the loss of the numbers only really affects players who care about progression/end game content, RP realms for instance are generally Alliance focused.

This I believe will go a long way to fixing it.

No it wouldn't I doubt even half of the playerbase care about a given races lore, most people don't give a damn about the High/Blood Elf lore they play them because they are attractive and more human-like than other horde races.

Void Elves were almost exclusively treated with disdain and mockery by the parts of the playerbase that cares about lore/story yet they became the most played alliance allied race because they were hot goth/emo chicks/dudes, not because of their deep story and lore.

At this point theres no fixing the Alliance/Horde divide in high end content without just giving the alliance significantly better racials than the Horde and hoping enough guilds switch faction, and that would probably just invert the problem instead of solving it

[Beloren]

Are we back to talking about how Blood Elves and Nightborne should be made sub-servants to the "Humans and Pals" faction?

Exactly, he feels this is what the alliance should be, because this is what the alliance was originally and based upon. But the flaw in his logic is not the results he predicts, he is probably right, the flaw is thinking blizzard want to go back tot hat model or feeling they should as the only means to restore their franchise.

it may be the best means to restore the franchise's original core, but the franchise has moved away from that origin and isn't going back, because the devs don't want it to go back, and frankly I don't think any of the blood elf population would like that. I grant if they do it, we'll all get use to it and adjust, but we would like it no more than the alliance liked the blood elves going horde, or their fans liked losing Teldrassil - how can he expect Belf fans to want to go back to the alliance or lose Silvermoon?

IT is partly why I think the most blizzard should do is make Elves, Goblins, Draenei, Pandaren - neutral based races players can choose either faction from, and have in game lore reasons to justify why each group has access to the other faction.


Goblins - steamwheedle cartel join the alliance

Draenei - higher purpose, naaru incentive for peace and bring the Light to everyone - so some are willing to work with the horde

Blood elves - Silvermoon goes neutral, the state doesnt feel the factions are right for them, individuals can choose whether they join horde or alliance, those who join alliance always identify as high elves, those who join horde always as blood elves, the neutrals identify however they want based on their convictions, some blood elves put that off feeling they had mourned enough, , others continue - it's a personal preference that has nothing to do with the alliance or horde.

Night Elves - the Kaldorei go neutral, and don't want anything to do with the alliance or horde, however the Highborne instead want to influence the world, learn from it and guide it too, they persuade some of the most talented druids and priests too who prefer involvement rather than isolation to join them, as the caste is reshaped into bringing knowledge and philosophy whether of the arcane, Elune or nature to all - the original Highborne caste was always the most accomplished night elves in all fields of kaldorei society, and this is what they become again. These Highborne choose to work with both alliance and horde - but are mainly interested in their Thalassian kin in both factions and guiding the Kirin'tor, who they persuade to expand their horizon to include magical users and scholars who specialise in nature and divine magics, void, death, chaos and elements in understanding the full breadth of magic.

Void elves: Some are still drawn to the void, but because of the Sunwell they are prohibited from returning home, they make their home with the alliance

Nightborne: The Arcan'dor heals Nightborne into night elves, some really like this, some don't. Magic can indefinitely delay the process for those who desire it. Suramar does go neutral too, following Silvermoon, partly because enough people are interested in continuing as kaldorei, working with the Highborne philosophy, while others aren't. Whether you stay in nightborne form or regain your kaldorei form is up to the individual Nightborne, but it just happens that most who choose to help the alliance adopt their original kaldorei form, and those who tend to work with the horde their shal'dorei form, but Nightborne are free to choose.

All players who pick these races must choose a faction, they can have their own personal motivations or the motivations of some of their race who have followed to join certain factions. As players they can't stay neutral. I think this will work.

[Frenchvince]

Lots of races have unnatural hair colors, I think Void Elves can have their natural hair colors to complement their high elf customization options.
It's the least complicated thing to add for Blizzard.

[Vaedan]

And thats fine, but only a handfull here cares for the void elf theme. I am on board and leaving the blood elves to the tolkien theme and expand on what is there. Qual' Thalas updated, expsnd their story and leave the void elves out of that.
While we are at it, let the void elves have their own story.

Seperate them more is my opinion. I rather have boring tolkien elves then them trying to push the void elves in blood elf lands for example.

It would serve nothing and would only enhance the blood elf story if they kept their story so close. Alleria made her point and doesnt realy need to come back, there is no one in silvermoon who would care or even missed her to begin with, stating otherwise is headcanon. Anyway, I am gonna say they both deserve their own narratives, blood elves more then void elves tho, but thats an opinion.

Well, I only think blood elves deserve more then just being plain tolkien elves, mostly because their introduction to the game pictured them in pretty different way and current portrayal definitely does not fit well with the larger Horde flavor. I prefered them when they were reckless, whimsical and unforgiving. They are now basically pretty humans of the Horde, which is a shame.

I also think that you don't need to separate blood and void elves in full scale in order for each group have their own distinctive feature. Don't forget that void elves are kind of next step of blood elves, they will always be connected in some way. Kael's spirit in Revendreth recognizes void elves his people in the same way he does blood elves, and Zul'jins spirit shows the exact same contempt for them. You can definitel build void elves upon their thalassian ancestry and have their own story, different to blood elves. Their story may be centered around ties thalassians used to have with the Alliance in the past, rediscovering old friendships lost after Third War, as well as developing their homesickness and dreams of Quel'thalas being united (which will most likely not happen during WoW lifespan)... all of this is something blood elves are not involved in anymore, yet it was something which attracted high elf fans for years.

With void elves, we also have a chance to discover more of the Void, most likely it's not entirely evil side. I expect we will find out that Void is not ultimately evil force and Light is not purely source of good in the future. Void elves and lightbound are potential seeds for this plot. I guess blood elves will serve as Horde's closest connection to the forces of Light in the future.

[ravenmoon]

I'm enjoying Ravenmoon's specials, his views are different and always seem so anti popular, i've grown a fondness for them.


He does make sense, but he isn't very agreeable. He doesn't say nice things and his focus is too obscure - it's like focusing on a small fringe part and blowing it up to huge proportions - it's weird because it's not that relevant, yet he makes enough noise about it. he may be correct in all his detail, but it really doesn't amount to much and sort of misses what's more central - but I have been entertained and have some good arguments. I have been swayed in some areas too - but one thing is absolutely clear.. this faction nonsense has to go.

My Alternative to Ravenmoon's Proposal
SNI P

For goodness sake the Alliance is not losing numbers to the Horde because of High/Blood Elves, its because the Horde has had significantly stronger racials for raiding and other endgame content for years now and it caused the culture around said content to shift mainly to the Horde, globally faction balance is more or less equal with more casual players leaning alliance and top-level players favoring the horde.

Even then the loss of the numbers only really affects players who care about progression/end game content, RP realms for instance are generally Alliance focused.



No it wouldn't I doubt even half of the playerbase care about a given races lore, most people don't give a damn about the High/Blood Elf lore they play them because they are attractive and more human-like than other horde races.

Void Elves were almost exclusively treated with disdain and mockery by the parts of the playerbase that cares about lore/story yet they became the most played alliance allied race because they were hot goth/emo chicks/dudes, not because of their deep story and lore.

At this point theres no fixing the Alliance/Horde divide in high end content without just giving the alliance significantly better racials than the Horde and hoping enough guilds switch faction, and that would probably just invert the problem instead of solving it

Exactly, he feels this is what the alliance should be, because this is what the alliance was originally and based upon. But the flaw in his logic is not the results he predicts, he is probably right, the flaw is thinking blizzard want to go back tot hat model or feeling they should as the only means to restore their franchise.

it may be the best means to restore the franchise's original core, but the franchise has moved away from that origin and isn't going back, because the devs don't want it to go back, and frankly I don't think any of the blood elf population would like that. I grant if they do it, we'll all get use to it and adjust, but we would like it no more than the alliance liked the blood elves going horde, or their fans liked losing Teldrassil - how can he expect Belf fans to want to go back to the alliance or lose Silvermoon?

IT is partly why I think the most blizzard should do is make Elves, Goblins, Draenei, Pandaren - neutral based races players can choose either faction from, and have in game lore reasons to justify why each group has access to the other faction.

All flawed, look... it really is simple, if blizzard want to maintain the core of Warcraft, they need to take the high elves and night elves and their civilization back to the alliance, and the blood elves and Nightborne that remain become something different.. there is no other good way to do it.

You are right in one thing, it's all soo mixed up currently, you have the alliance races all over the horde and alliance, and one thing is for user, is that it doesn't favour the alliance - this is why the alliance is suffering numbers, and people like @Imperator think we are fooled into believing the alliance doesn't have far less people because his alleged experience says otherwise.

Whatever.

If blizzard want to preserve the core and heart of what Warcraft is, they need to do something like what I've suggested, they know this, the alliance elements need to return to the alliance.. if they don't want that, they can go to your proposals or leave things as is.

As for me, sure I can play high elves on the horde as blood elves (and I do), I can enjoy the Highborne night elven civilization through the Nightborne, or the druid/priest long vigil aspect of the night elves through the night elves, I have all the elven elements in game that I could want for, but it's not going to help the alliance in this format, nor is it going to help the horde and the core of Warcraft.

You can leave things as is, but you're not going to get the original horde feel with high elves and night elves sitting on the horde, so either give up that hope, or make it a reality properly. That's the choice blizzard has.

- - - Updated - - -

I really don't see the big fuss, I really don't.

What the big fuss of having high elves playing on the alliance? Except blood elf fans want to be snowflakes and somehow resent the is alliance race being available on the horde

They ask for distinction of the factions, yet when I propose this distinction be done properly people like MyWholeLifeIsThunder, Beloren and Tanaria disagree - it's hypocrisy, .. they don't high elves playable on the alliance because it make the horde less distinctive, but don't mind the fact that the alliance is already less distinctive because the high elves, an alliance race, and alliance themed group are available on the horde

The argument for playable high elves was lost the minute blood elves became available, it's just that many did not realise it

[bagina]

Lots of races have unnatural hair colors, I think Void Elves can have their natural hair colors to complement their high elf customization options.
It's the least complicated thing to add for Blizzard.

Wow, is that asian human female preset? I always knew femBelves had derpy mouthbreather faces but when you put them next to new human models it becomes that much more apparent! They look quite terrible. Belf model update when?

[ravenmoon]

Lots of races have unnatural hair colors, I think Void Elves can have their natural hair colors to complement their high elf customization options.
It's the least complicated thing to add for Blizzard.

Technically anyone can dye their hair any colour, lorewise it makes sense to have options available to your race or that your race is accustomed to. This technically means it should be quite possible for voidies to dye their hair.

There is also the fact that not all void elves have transitioned appearances, some are still in their high elven and blood elven original appearances, as we see in Telogrus Rift and as we see with Alleria.

[Varodoc]

The Ren'dorei leader, Lady Alleria Windrunner, literally has blonde hair: