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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    The system you describe is already in place. It's called dungeon browser normal mode. It searches you a group of other classes with different roles, who mostly don't talk. Then it gives you a buff to compensate for your lack of skill (and unwillingness to communicate). And then it trivializes all dungeon mechanics to a point where you can learn from failure by getting hit and not dying.

    Casuals don't want easy story dungeons. They want easy loot, like virtually anyone else. And for loot you have to play with others in an MMORPG.
    Weird. I'm a casual, I don't want "easy" (I don't enjoy getting carried and I'm glad Titanforging is gone) loot, and I want this system in the game. Not for the story portion of it really, I'd just rather learn at my own pace than deal with the usual pug crowd breathing down my neck when I stand still and don't pull for 2 seconds to read a debuff.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayatoo View Post
    .
    Why, exactly, should Blizzard invest their time in adding this?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayatoo View Post
    Yep, just because you can't comprehend it, let alone do it, doesn't mean somebody with the proper skills can't.
    Don't worry though, I'm sure you can be useful in other areas

    Brilliant way to convince people of the merit of your idea.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayatoo View Post
    This basically eliminates utter newbies.
    You have evidence that this will work as you claim?

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  3. #63
    I see no value in this.

    I don't know if you've actually queued for a normal dungeon this expansion, but it takes like 5 minutes even as DPS. Any story (and not that there is much once you're inside other than "you gots to kill all dese tings mon") is read out to you as you play.

  4. #64
    No, that should definitely not be in WoW...sorry. Sounds like some garbage that Destiny 2 does. Would waste development time on more important things like MORE dungeons & raids. Prefer when there are more dungeons on launch and more than 1 raid. All the best regarded expansions have had more than 10 dungeons on release and at least 12 or more raid bosses. If they wasted time on this as a feature for people who are terrible at the game to "learn the dungeons" it wouldn't help them. Like 95% of the time the problem is that they can't be bothered to learn about their spec and be aware of mechanics or not stand in bad things or they're too lazy to farm up their gear and EXPECT people who are better players to carry their weight because they are entitled. Then later on when they get gear they're the same people who don't have the patience to let other players learn content (which has and always will take wipes) and so after a few or so wipes they bail on a M+ or a NON Raid Finder run because they couldn't get carried. TL;DR This is more garbage trying to push the game in a single player direction. No...Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game does not mean single player. It's always been about the persistent world, the game is not hard AT ALL, it's always been about proper research and execution and the social aspect IS, WHAT, MADE, IT, SUCCEED.
    Last edited by Bloodbayne; 2021-01-11 at 03:45 PM.

  5. #65
    Final Fantasy XI has NPCs you can group with in many different scenarios, not only instanced content, but open world as well - you can also mix and match friends and AI toons.

    It's a wonderful feature and I would love for them to implement it in WOW.

    No need to limit it to story-mode only or limit the rewards.

    I am pretty sure eventually WoW will have more of this feature. It is the logical next step in adventures/missions.

    Not only that, but it adds another collection aspect to the game, as the NPCs tend to be lore characters from the history of the game. Players collect them using different quests, etc. It's a fantastic idea.

    If people want the option of grouping or not that will be up to them. It also allows parties to be completed when you only have one or two others.
    Last edited by Dinousek; 2021-01-11 at 03:55 PM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    Weird. I'm a casual, I don't want "easy" (I don't enjoy getting carried and I'm glad Titanforging is gone) loot, and I want this system in the game. Not for the story portion of it really, I'd just rather learn at my own pace than deal with the usual pug crowd breathing down my neck when I stand still and don't pull for 2 seconds to read a debuff.
    Dungeon compendium is there for you. Just read up all the mechanics beforehand (you should do that either way). AI groupmates will never be able to do what you want from them, because they don't know tactics. Bosses are way too complicated to actually offer a realistic bossfight with AI. What you want is Uncle Blizzard to handhold you and explain every mechanic to you (maybe even pausing the bossfight to explain it?). But Blizzard doesn't do that on purpose, because they want to give players the freedom to do dungeons the way they want, except for exploits.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayatoo View Post

    Some of the highlights:

    - It facilitates group play instead of detracting from it.
    - The work is already done, implementing it is as easy as designing the encounter itself.
    - The player feels immersed into the world through their own story
    - No overlap with any current progression system whatsoever.

    How can this be so hard to grasp four you an others like you? xD
    -Wrong
    -Wrong
    -Doesn't matter
    -Literally removes people from queues

  8. #68
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Dungeon compendium is there for you. Just read up all the mechanics beforehand (you should do that either way). AI groupmates will never be able to do what you want from them, because they don't know tactics. Bosses are way too complicated to actually offer a realistic bossfight with AI. What you want is Uncle Blizzard to handhold you and explain every mechanic to you (maybe even pausing the bossfight to explain it?). But Blizzard doesn't do that on purpose, because they want to give players the freedom to do dungeons the way they want, except for exploits.
    You really think bosses in this game are too complicated for AI? Is that a joke? You really don't think a literal robot couldn't perfectly execute these fights? That really says all that need be said.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Before inventing and AI for dungeons Blizz should just remove dungeon quests.

    Like wtf, why do you even want to play an multiplayer game?
    i actually think this is a good idea, as the amount of hunters that join mythic+'s with no clue what counter shot or tranq shot are currently is absurd same with druids and soothe

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayatoo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathfaern View Post
    Based on my experience that's a perfect replication of real player's behaviour.
    LOOOOOOOOOLLL XD
    You think that's a joke. But I didn't know that those were AIs (did not really followed the beta). The same bug happened on one of my runs, and I honestly thought that those are just dumb players. I mean it was just the usual: there were some "gogogo" people rushing forward and some "where is the 'W' button?" players. And the former pulled the boss and the latter did not have time to reach the door. Also it was the healer who was left behind so... just the usual.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    Would be a much better alternative than LFR,as LFR essentially boils down to having 15 AFK players and 5 players doing 80% of the group's DPS.

    Story Mode would allow you to see the story while having to actually play (of course I wouldn't expect it to be hard,but at least it'd require the player to pay attention)
    LFR is fine as is. Stop asking for removal of content you don't even do because you don't like it.

  12. #72
    Pandaren Monk ThatsOurEric's Avatar
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    Rather than this, I wish the game would give me NPC companions to quest with.

    There are some quests in the game where you're paired with characters, and man is it fun to watch
    their banter, and generally feel nice having another character around.

    WoD had bodyguards, as did Legion, and I miss having that feature. Maybe not the size of a
    party, but having at least 2 NPCs around for company and to see their banter depending on
    the location/quest/etc. wouldn't be a bad thing to have.

  13. #73
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I am against everything that gives people an excuse not to talk to people even more that it is allready.

    A MMO lives from people playing together. The community grows from it and creates a better experience for everybody. Looking for XYZ tools allready made irreversible damage to the game. But we learned to live with it. The entitlement just grows and grows. People want to finish the game without talking to others.

    You learn the game by playing with others. It is allready taking your hand enough while leveling. It is basically impossible to wipe in leveling dungeons or normal current dungeons. LFR has people who do not care one bit about the raid and don't look up anything. You proposed story mode would be so easy that no one would learn anything. And the amount of work they have to put into it, that the AI can actually play every dungeon, is just way too much for it.
    There are way bigger problems they should work on right now. PvP, variety in transmogs, literally anything else^^

    If this is implemented people will cry, that they don't get rewards. So blizz will give you subnormal gear. People cry becuase it is not as good etcpp. Better not to open that box imho
    Really? You want to encourage people to talk to each other, in a game that is notorious for having an incredibly toxic community? This isn't the days of vanilla where almost everyone was willing to help out a newbie. Yes you can still find good people, but the amount of assholes has risen considerably. Hell in Shadowlands alone my first time in Plaguefall (that's right, during levelling of all things) I had someone fly off the rails in our group because we didn't know the mechanics. I throw my vote towards anything that lets us drive away from talking to complete strangers and more towards just sticking with already established friend groups to solo experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbayne View Post
    No, that should definitely not be in WoW...sorry. Sounds like some garbage that Destiny 2 does. Would waste development time on more important things like MORE dungeons & raids. Prefer when there are more dungeons on launch and more than 1 raid. All the best regarded expansions have had more than 10 dungeons on release and at least 12 or more raid bosses. If they wasted time on this as a feature for people who are terrible at the game to "learn the dungeons" it wouldn't help them. Like 95% of the time the problem is that they can't be bothered to learn about their spec and be aware of mechanics or not stand in bad things or they're too lazy to farm up their gear and EXPECT people who are better players to carry their weight because they are entitled. Then later on when they get gear they're the same people who don't have the patience to let other players learn content (which has and always will take wipes) and so after a few or so wipes they bail on a M+ or a NON Raid Finder run because they couldn't get carried. TL;DR This is more garbage trying to push the game in a single player direction. No...Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game does not mean single player. It's always been about the persistent world, the game is not hard AT ALL, it's always been about proper research and execution and the social aspect IS, WHAT, MADE, IT, SUCCEED.
    That doesn't mean that is what will keep it succeeding. You do realize the reason there were so many dungeons and raids were because most of them used the same assets? If you boil it down there were the same amount of unique dungeon flavors every expansion. We don't need more dungeons and raids, because while dungeons are probably the most popular, raiding is still by far the minority activity. What this game needs is more stuff in the world to make it feel actually alive. More focus on making it a persistent world instead of a glorified queue while you wait for your next dungeon.
    Last edited by Redroniksre; 2021-01-11 at 09:07 PM.

  14. #74
    I love how people are skipping over the 'this is a teaching tool' part of the idea. Learn how to tank, learn how to heal with nonjudgemental bots. Instead let's push these people into the wonderful community as it stands now! I sure do love learning how to tank in normal dungeons wearing Heroic stuff and those high ilvl world quest items then being told I'm the reason why my parents divorced. Really makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
    Retail sucks. Classic sucks. No positivity, only negative feedback. Why is everybody so damn miserable? Must be somebody else's fault, it couldn't possibly be my INSANELY TOXIC ATTITUDE.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Redroniksre View Post
    Really? You want to encourage people to talk to each other, in a game that is notorious for having an incredibly toxic community? This isn't the days of vanilla where almost everyone was willing to help out a newbie. Yes you can still find good people, but the amount of assholes has risen considerably. Hell in Shadowlands alone my first time in Plaguefall (that's right, during levelling of all things) I had someone fly off the rails in our group because we didn't know the mechanics. I throw my vote towards anything that lets us drive away from talking to complete strangers and more towards just sticking with already established friend groups to solo experiences.



    That doesn't mean that is what will keep it succeeding. You do realize the reason there were so many dungeons and raids were because most of them used the same assets? If you boil it down there were the same amount of unique dungeon flavors every expansion. We don't need more dungeons and raids, because while dungeons are probably the most popular, raiding is still by far the minority activity. What this game needs is more stuff in the world to make it feel actually alive. More focus on making it a persistent world instead of a glorified queue while you wait for your next dungeon.
    I don't think wow is toxic and it is definetly not "notorious" for it *shrug*
    Also talking reduces toxicity nearly always. Talk to people, find a guild whcih fits your needs. If you don't want to do any of that maybe an MMO is not for that person. Simple as that. There are guilds for everything. And people who like everything. Encouraging people to have less contact with others will make this worse for everyone.
    There are so many games. And i think the only game i found which is less toxic is FF14. But... well... not my game sadly. Can't keep me.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by vilememory View Post
    I love how people are skipping over the 'this is a teaching tool' part of the idea. Learn how to tank, learn how to heal with nonjudgemental bots. Instead let's push these people into the wonderful community as it stands now! I sure do love learning how to tank in normal dungeons wearing Heroic stuff and those high ilvl world quest items then being told I'm the reason why my parents divorced. Really makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
    And even when that's not the case,you get matched with people that are so high level that everything dies before you get even the slightest chance to learn anything
    Epic

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathfaern View Post
    Based on my experience that's a perfect replication of real player's behaviour.
    Reply of the year.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Before inventing and AI for dungeons Blizz should just remove dungeon quests.

    Like wtf, why do you even want to play an multiplayer game?
    Believe it or not but most mmo players don't do group content.

  19. #79
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I don't think wow is toxic and it is definetly not "notorious" for it *shrug*
    Also talking reduces toxicity nearly always. Talk to people, find a guild whcih fits your needs. If you don't want to do any of that maybe an MMO is not for that person. Simple as that. There are guilds for everything. And people who like everything. Encouraging people to have less contact with others will make this worse for everyone.
    There are so many games. And i think the only game i found which is less toxic is FF14. But... well... not my game sadly. Can't keep me.
    WoW is certainly toxic. I find that most of the normal people just play silently (in LFR, LFD, etc) while usually the most talkative tend to be rather toxic. Though i have found RP servers and such to be a lot more tolerable. If Blizzard would go the route that FF14 did (get serious with banning toxic behaviour) then i would be all for people talking again, but as it is now half the time it is just arguments.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    You really think bosses in this game are too complicated for AI? Is that a joke? You really don't think a literal robot couldn't perfectly execute these fights? That really says all that need be said.
    Yes, I think a literal robot could not perfectly execute these fights in a realistic manor, meaning that the fight would work like a fight where only players play. Because Robots are dumb as fuck and AI only seems smart, because they learned millions of different variations in their training phase. You literally brute force learning (well, kinda realistic i guess). Now take a fight like blood council. Who decides which boss to kill first? Good luck training 15 different AI players (or one AI for 15 players) to do every mechanic in every order perfectly. That will take years with Blizzard's computing capacity.
    You can have two cases here: Either have a scripted bossfight with scripted AI, that doesn't react on the player's actions or you have a smart AI with a real bossfight that breaks when the player does something unexpected or something in the fight goes unexpected. First one is easy, but serves no purpose, second one will be way too much work for Blizz to develop and maintain.
    You know Blizzard's current AI, do you? The one they use on Island Expeditions. That AI is stupid as hell.
    Developing the Starcraft AI took years and was done by a different company. And it is not foolproof and still failed if the player did something unusual.

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