If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Triceron]

Hunter's merely have the play style, and now they can also tame undead animals.

Hunters don't play anything like Dark Rangers, and taming Undead Animals is a Hunter trait. This like saying Druid is Priestess of the Moon because have a healing playstyle and have Starfall. It's absurd.

[Unbelievable]

Yeah, you didn't answer my question.

Let's make it visual;






Do you actually believe they would allow a mech that large to be an ability in a playable class?



No, because those are items, not class abilities.



Again, you're not getting the majority of those abilities. Black Arrow in HotS is unworkable for WoW. Life Drain, Haunting Wave, and Possession don't make much sense for a bow class. etc.



If gameplay-wise they're both dealing shadow damage, who cares?



Incorrect. They're Tinker abilities if they're from HotS and WC3. What a random NPC and Mekkatorque does isn't necessarily a Tinker ability unless clearly indicated, like those Dark Ranger talents from the Hunter class.



That isn't a Hunter ability champ.



Yes, and I'm still not happy about their implementation. However, Metamorphosis DID offer a unique gameplay opportunity that simply isn't present in the Dark Ranger concept.

Interestingly, the Tinker concept ALSO has a unique gameplay opportunity as well.



If you take a minute and REALLY think how those abilities would work together, you would realize they're unworkable as well. Seriously, just play a Hunter in classic where they still used Mana, and while you're playing, think how abilities like Life Drain or Possession would work into that kind of play style.

If it's in-game already then ,yes, i can see it happening.

Then, look at NPC abilities:
Rock-It! Turret
25 yd range
Instant 10 sec recharge
2 Charges
Summons a Rock-It! Turret at your feet for 15 sec that shoots rockets at a nearby enemy within 25 yards every 2 sec, dealing 3 Fire damage.

Gnomish Flame Turret
Item Level 27
Use: Quickly constructs a gnomish flame turret at your feet that will nearly always attack nearby enemies. The turret falls apart after 45 sec. (1 Min Cooldown)

Deploy Spark Bot
1.5 sec cast
Mekkatorque calls in Spark Bot units to seek out his enemies.

Goblin Bomb Dispenser
Item Level 24
Binds when picked up
Trinket
Use: Creates a mobile bomb that charges the nearest enemy and explodes for 350 fire damage. (30 Min Cooldown)

Looks like they work, pretty, similarly and, therefore, would be categorized as guardian pets, like the Engineering items.

Black Arrow has been in game before, so nothing prevents that version from being added.

Well, they do make sense for a bow class, as can be seen in the WC3 iteration of the Dark Ranger and Sylvanas in HotS.

If gameplay-wise both the Hunter and the Engineering profession deal fire damage with explosives, then who cares about the Tinker.
If the Warlock and Priest, already, dealt Shadow damage, why add the Death Knight that, also, deals Shadow damage? your logic makes as much sense as Trump telling people to drink chemicals to heal corona.

Oh, so suddenly Mekkatorque abilities aren't representative of the Tinker class? how convenient... then, you can forget his other abilities from ever being integrated into the Tinker class.

Who cares who's ability it is. You want the explosion part of it, take Engineering. Just like i'm supposed to take a Void elf race.

You say that in retrospect. Now, that the Demon Hunter is useable for your argument. You never saw it before it was implemented. So, cut the bullshit, like you're a Demon Hunter fan all of the sudden and admit you never saw it as a viable class. At the end of the day, Metamorphosis offered as much gameplay as it offered as a Warlock ability, so don't pretend to adore it.

Not unique? weird... i see the combination of a Dark Ranger, Priestess of the Moon, Sea Witch and perhaps the Diablo III Demon Hunter and Overwatch's Windowmaker as very unique in gameplay. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been Warcraft III heroes, HotS characters, Diablo class and Overwatch hero.

I'm seeing Viper Sting gameplay not being that far from a passive Life Drain and possession being an extra pet, like we have now.

[Triceron]

If it's in-game already then ,yes, i can see it happening.
Black Arrow has been in game before, so nothing prevents that version from being added.

Well, they do make sense for a bow class, as can be seen in the WC3 iteration of the Dark Ranger and Sylvanas in HotS.

If gameplay-wise both the Hunter and the Engineering profession deal fire damage with explosives, then who cares about the Tinker.
If the Warlock and Priest, already, dealt Shadow damage, why add the Death Knight that, also, deals Shadow damage? your logic makes as much sense as Trump telling people to drink chemicals to heal corona.

Yep, nailed it. We have all the potential for there to be new classes, and if we're going to make any argument that certain themes or playstyles are already in the game so we don't need X class, then that's just an argument to say no new classes should be added to the game since every possible theme and playstyle (within the Holy Trinity) is covered in one way or another. Hunters have technology and explosives, Priests and Warriors have music and sound, Mages and Warriors have Dragon themes, etc. Hunters use bows and guns, dismiss any future bow and gun-users. Mages use magic, dismiss any future magical class. It's the loosest thing you can get to a dismiss-any-class argument.

[Teriz]

Hunters don't play anything like Dark Rangers, and taming Undead Animals is a Hunter trait. This like saying Druid is Priestess of the Moon because have a healing playstyle and have Starfall. It's absurd.

And yet we have multiple examples of Dark Rangers taming "undead" beasts...

[Unbelievable]

Yep, nailed it. We have all the potential for there to be new classes, and if we're going to make any argument that certain themes or playstyles are already in the game so we don't need X class, then that's just an argument to say no new classes should be added to the game since every possible theme and playstyle (within the Holy Trinity) is covered in one way or another. Hunters have technology and explosives, Priests and Warriors have music and sound, Mages and Warriors have Dragon themes, etc. Hunters use bows and guns, dismiss any future bow and gun-users. Mages use magic, dismiss any future magical class. It's the loosest thing you can get to a dismiss-any-class argument.

I, literally, could tell him to go play Druid and take Ysera's Gift, play a Warrior and have the Last breath of the Earthbreaker appearance on his Scale of the Earth-warder, play a Mage with time and arcane magic - and say that he has a Dragonsworn at hand.

The ridiculous part of his ongoing childish ramble about Tinkers is that he, actually, thinks Blizzard is going to add 1 new class (2 max) and be done with it. Like, for real? Blizzard is gonna give up on their money making features, just because you can't see beyond a Tinker and a Dragonsworn? That's absurd...

And yet we have multiple examples of Dark Rangers taming "undead" beasts...

Go ahead. name 'em.

[Teriz]

If it's in-game already then ,yes, i can see it happening.

Okay.

Then, look at NPC abilities:
Rock-It! Turret
25 yd range
Instant 10 sec recharge
2 Charges
Summons a Rock-It! Turret at your feet for 15 sec that shoots rockets at a nearby enemy within 25 yards every 2 sec, dealing 3 Fire damage.

Gnomish Flame Turret
Item Level 27
Use: Quickly constructs a gnomish flame turret at your feet that will nearly always attack nearby enemies. The turret falls apart after 45 sec. (1 Min Cooldown)

Deploy Spark Bot
1.5 sec cast
Mekkatorque calls in Spark Bot units to seek out his enemies.

Goblin Bomb Dispenser
Item Level 24
Binds when picked up
Trinket
Use: Creates a mobile bomb that charges the nearest enemy and explodes for 350 fire damage. (30 Min Cooldown)

Looks like they work, pretty, similarly and, therefore, would be categorized as guardian pets, like the Engineering items.

So you really don't know the difference between an ability and an item? Hilarious.

Black Arrow has been in game before, so nothing prevents that version from being added.

Not the HotS version. The HotS version passively stuns targets as it auto attacks. That's never entering the game because it would be OP.

Well, they do make sense for a bow class, as can be seen in the WC3 iteration of the Dark Ranger and Sylvanas in HotS.

Yeah, Dark Rangers weren't bow classes in WC3 or HotS, they were ranged units. Not remotely the same thing.

If gameplay-wise both the Hunter and the Engineering profession deal fire damage with explosives, then who cares about the Tinker.
If the Warlock and Priest, already, dealt Shadow damage, why add the Death Knight that, also, deals Shadow damage? your logic makes as much sense as Trump telling people to drink chemicals to heal corona.

I wasn't aware that you can fight inside a mech suit as a Hunter. Please point me to that class ability. I would very much like to quest in Shadowlands fighting inside a mech.

Warlocks and Priests aren't Necromancers, and they aren't heavy armored melee warriors. Your comparisons here are laughable.

Oh, so suddenly Mekkatorque abilities aren't representative of the Tinker class? how convenient... then, you can forget his other abilities from ever being integrated into the Tinker class.

Simply because his abilities aren't Tinker abilities, it doesn't mean that his abilities couldn't be incorporated into the eventual class.

Who cares who's ability it is. You want the explosion part of it, take Engineering. Just like i'm supposed to take a Void elf race.

Please understand the difference between an ability and an item. This is getting tiresome. Oh, and the Void Elf stuff are all abilities.

You say that in retrospect. Now, that the Demon Hunter is useable for your argument. You never saw it before it was implemented.

Yes I did. I even made a class concept for the Demon Hunter before it was ever announced or implemented;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Hunters-(Long)

Not unique? weird... i see the combination of a Dark Ranger, Priestess of the Moon, Sea Witch and perhaps the Diablo III Demon Hunter and Overwatch's Windowmaker as very unique in gameplay. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been Warcraft III heroes, HotS characters, Diablo class and Overwatch hero.

Yeah, that's also not unique, that's called a mess. Those concepts have nothing to do with each other, and are wrapped up in multiple classes.

[razorpax]

Yeah, you didn't answer my question.

Let's make it visual;






Do you actually believe they would allow a mech that large to be an ability in a playable class?



No, because those are items, not class abilities.



Again, you're not getting the majority of those abilities. Black Arrow in HotS is unworkable for WoW. Life Drain, Haunting Wave, and Possession don't make much sense for a bow class. etc.



If gameplay-wise they're both dealing shadow damage, who cares?



Incorrect. They're Tinker abilities if they're from HotS and WC3. What a random NPC and Mekkatorque does isn't necessarily a Tinker ability unless clearly indicated, like those Dark Ranger talents from the Hunter class.



That isn't a Hunter ability champ.



Yes, and I'm still not happy about their implementation. However, Metamorphosis DID offer a unique gameplay opportunity that simply isn't present in the Dark Ranger concept.

Interestingly, the Tinker concept ALSO has a unique gameplay opportunity as well.



If you take a minute and REALLY think how those abilities would work together, you would realize they're unworkable as well. Seriously, just play a Hunter in classic where they still used Mana, and while you're playing, think how abilities like Life Drain or Possession would work into that kind of play style.

They could just scale it to the same size as the mount

I thought we got past the whole big races can’t be tinkers

[Teriz]

They could just scale it to the same size as the mount

I thought we got past the whole big races can’t be tinkers

Well individuals such as @qwerty123456 and others feel that mechs should be huge or they don't have the same punch if they're smaller. Obviously if a Mech isn't much larger than the race piloting it, I could see how that could look less than impressive, and even silly. Conversely, if they're too large, that could cause visibility and clipping issues, even if they're somehow made to fit in interior spaces.

Smaller races don't have that issue. For them, going from Gnome size to Tauren size would be a large difference.

[razorpax]

Well individuals such as @qwerty123456 and others feel that mechs should be huge or they don't have the same punch if they're smaller. Obviously if a Mech isn't much larger than the race piloting it, I could see how that could look less than impressive, and even silly. Conversely, if they're too large, that could cause visibility and clipping issues, even if they're somehow made to fit in interior spaces.

Smaller races don't have that issue. For them, going from Gnome size to Tauren size would be a large difference.

That’s just stupid

I mean why are KT druids the same size as elf druids when they are thick boys??

If it’s not a problem now with the mounts then it won’t be with a CD not to mention we already saw the problems caused by larger models in combat when everyone turned into gamon

[Triceron]

And yet we have multiple examples of Dark Rangers taming "undead" beasts...

We have multiple examples of Death Knights who are able to channel Holy Magic too. Exceptions aren't the rule here.

We don't just look at these examples and consider DK's a completely different class, or having this ability as a staple part of the DK identity.


I mean look at SHadowlands. We now have multiple examples of every class in the game using Necromancy. So is every class a Necromancer now?

[Teriz]

That’s just stupid

I mean why are KT druids the same size as elf druids when they are thick boys??

If it’s not a problem now with the mounts then it won’t be with a CD not to mention we already saw the problems caused by larger models in combat when everyone turned into gamon

Like I've always said, if Blizzard doesn't have an issue with Draenei mech pilots, I don't have a problem with them. I just think their general size could be an issue. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

- - - Updated - - -

We have multiple examples of Death Knights who are able to channel Holy Magic too. Exceptions aren't the rule here.

We don't just look at these examples and consider DK's a completely different class, or having this ability as a staple part of the DK identity.


I mean look at SHadowlands. We now have multiple examples of every class in the game using Necromancy. So is every class a Necromancer now?

There's a difference between some random DK having holy magic (I don't even think he was really a Death Knight, just one of the four horsemen) and one of the leaders of Dark Rangers having "undead" pets.

As for everyone in Shadowlands being able to use Necromancy, I think that just shows how unlikely a Necromancer class is after this expansion. This was clearly the expansion for a Necromancer if one were truly on the table.

[qwerty123456]

Well individuals such as @qwerty123456 and others feel that mechs should be huge or they don't have the same punch if they're smaller. Obviously if a Mech isn't much larger than the race piloting it, I could see how that could look less than impressive, and even silly. Conversely, if they're too large, that could cause visibility and clipping issues, even if they're somehow made to fit in interior spaces.

Smaller races don't have that issue. For them, going from Gnome size to Tauren size would be a large difference.

You do realize we already have mech mounts that are bigger than their pilots right? Warframe just released an event where you run massive mechas through spaceships with doors smaller than them. To make it feel more realistic the mech crouches a bit and sparks fly from the ceiling where their heads hit. The only person with a problem with large races being tinkers is you.

Gnomes are around 3 ft according to this.

A gnomes head goes up to the hips/nutsack of a male Draenei in game. Thats almost half the height of a male draenei.

They are 3 and a half feet tall atleast. And with their hair (which we can you cause you are talking about high mountains horns) they are 4 feet.

[Teriz]

You do realize we already have mech mounts that are bigger than their pilots right? Warframe just released an event where you run massive mechas through spaceships with doors smaller than them. To make it feel more realistic the mech crouches a bit and sparks fly from the ceiling where their heads hit. The only person with a problem with large races being tinkers is you.

So you think a raid or dungeon group would be fine with a huge mech model in front of them blocking the view and having sparks flying from it as it scraped the ceiling?

[qwerty123456]

So you think a raid or dungeon group would be fine with a huge mech model in front of them blocking the view and having sparks flying from it as it scraped the ceiling?

How often are fights in narrow hallways? And how do people deal with groups of tauren and high mountain tauren? Or toys like the gammon toy?

[Teriz]

How often are fights in narrow hallways? And how do people deal with groups of tauren and high mountain tauren? Or toys like the gammon toy?

Yeah, they don't like it. Now imagine that issue only worse.

Again, with the smaller races, you don't have that issue.

[qwerty123456]

Yeah, they don't like it. Now imagine that issue only worse.

Again, with the smaller races, you don't have that issue.

You didn't answer my first part. And I don't see high mountain banned from raids or dungeons.

[Teriz]

A gnomes head goes up to the hips/nutsack of a male Draenei in game. Thats almost half the height of a male draenei.

They are 3 and a half feet tall atleast. And with their hair (which we can you cause you are talking about high mountains horns) they are 4 feet.

So again;



What's the problem? That seems like an appropriate size for a mech.

[Triceron]

There's a difference between some random DK having holy magic (I don't even think he was really a Death Knight, just one of the four horsemen) and one of the leaders of Dark Rangers having "undead" pets.

Yes, there is a difference. That difference is Leader NPCs break the mold of what classes are identified as; such as Thrall wearing Plate Armor or Anduin using a 2H sword.

Nathanos was originally a Forsaken Hunter; defending Marris Stead with dual wield axes and his undead hounds. He's not your typical Dark Ranger, he's the exception to the rule. Even in the lore, he was training a new generation of Dark Hunters. And he was a Hunter trainer. And as you pointed out, he doesn't have any Dark Ranger abilities like Sylvanas.

By all means, he is a Hunter by class, Dark Ranger through association to Sylvanas.

[Unbelievable]

Okay.



So you really don't know the difference between an ability and an item? Hilarious.



Not the HotS version. The HotS version passively stuns targets as it auto attacks. That's never entering the game because it would be OP.



Yeah, Dark Rangers weren't bow classes in WC3 or HotS, they were ranged units. Not remotely the same thing.



I wasn't aware that you can fight inside a mech suit as a Hunter. Please point me to that class ability. I would very much like to quest in Shadowlands fighting inside a mech.

Warlocks and Priests aren't Necromancers, and they aren't heavy armored melee warriors. Your comparisons here are laughable.



Simply because his abilities aren't Tinker abilities, it doesn't mean that his abilities couldn't be incorporated into the eventual class.



Please understand the difference between an ability and an item. This is getting tiresome. Oh, and the Void Elf stuff are all abilities.



Yes I did. I even made a class concept for the Demon Hunter before it was ever announced or implemented;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Hunters-(Long)



Yeah, that's also not unique, that's called a mess. Those concepts have nothing to do with each other, and are wrapped up in multiple classes.

Never said anything about the HotS version. a player would want the WC3 version, which deals shadow damage and summons a Dark Minion.



You don't see a bow?

"I wasn't aware that you can use Black Arrow, Life Drain, Mind Control and Banshee's Wail as a Hunter. Please point me to those class abilities. I would very much like to quest in Shadowlands using them."

Oh, so suddenly you care about lore? suddenly, there's an actual difference between necromancers and Priests/Warlocks? Aren't they all just shadow users? Yet, Dark Ranger and Void elves are the same? you're a comedian, mate.

Dark Rangers aren't Void users, either. But, it didn't stop you from comparing them. So, heavy armor and melee isn't relevant. answer me this:
why have priests and warlocks when they are both shadow users, like you claim? especially, when affliction warlocks and shadow priests were so similar in gameplay.

Mekkatorque abilities aren't Tinker abilities? are you mad? He's the most iconic Tinker out there, alongside the WC3 Tinker unit. If his abilities aren't Tinker abilities, then you can't have them inside the Tinker class. simple as that.

So are the Goblin, Gnome and Mechagnome racials. Go have them and leave us alone.

What the... then why be resentful about the addition of a Demon Hunter? it doesn't make any sense.

That's what you would call an opinion. They do have something to do with each other: The Dark Ranger/Priestess of the Moon/Sea Witch are all Rangers, using bows, magical arrows and spells. The Diablo Demon Hunter resembles the Dark Ranger in appearance, theme and gameplay. and Windowmaker is based on Sylvanas.

Being wrapped up in multiple classes didn't stop the Demon Hunter or Death Knight from being added to the game. Just a friendly reminder.

Like I've always said, if Blizzard doesn't have an issue with Draenei mech pilots, I don't have a problem with them. I just think their general size could be an issue. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

- - - Updated - - -



There's a difference between some random DK having holy magic (I don't even think he was really a Death Knight, just one of the four horsemen) and one of the leaders of Dark Rangers having "undead" pets.

As you've always said? you've been arguing against Draenei in mechs for several pages now, even though they exist in game. Your opinions flip over like a steak.

Sir Zeliek
Class Death knight, Paladin
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sir_Zeliek
Now, you know.

Yes, there is a difference. That difference is Leader NPCs break the mold of what classes are identified as; such as Thrall wearing Plate Armor or Anduin using a 2H sword.

Nathanos was originally a Forsaken Hunter; defending Marris Stead with dual wield axes and his undead hounds. He's not your typical Dark Ranger, he's the exception to the rule. Even in the lore, he was training a new generation of Dark Hunters. And he was a Hunter trainer. And as you pointed out, he doesn't have any Dark Ranger abilities like Sylvanas.

By all means, he is a Hunter by class, Dark Ranger by title and association to Sylvanas.

Correction: not undead hounds.

[Teriz]

Yes, there is a difference. That difference is Leader NPCs break the mold of what classes are identified as; such as Thrall wearing Plate Armor or Anduin using a 2H sword.

Nathanos was originally a Forsaken Hunter; defending Marris Stead with dual wield axes and his undead hounds. He's not your typical Dark Ranger, he's the exception to the rule. Even in the lore, he was training a new generation of Dark Hunters. And he was a Hunter trainer. All sources point to him always being a Hunter class.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dark_ranger

He's listed as a prominent Dark Ranger.