Do most Alliance and Horde players like or dislike Anduin Wrynn and Jaina Proudmoore?

[tommyhil622]

I don't really have a personal hate or animosity to any fictional character. However, i'm not much of a fan of Anduin in particular but i don't hate him either. I see the issues with his character but i think many exaggerate them. He is a flawed character, just not the flaws most people like. He's extremely inexperienced, naive and just an idealist. During BFA i think they tried to get his feet wet a bit but he's till has much to do. Personally i don't need every character to be an anti-hero. Wow is full of them. I think it's ok to have one Anduin type of character in the WoW lore. Now if they begin to multiply then i can see the objections. I didn't mind Jaina's progression in BFA. Some call it a "reset" but I call it growth. She's not back to how she was, before she was willing to be a mediator between the Horde and the Alliance, but Garrosh's actions taught her otherwise. She went into her crazed mode and I even thought she would stay in the dark path, i'm glad she didn't. Why? because i'm tried of the same trope. In BFA she was able face her demons and reconcile with her people. (Again different than her state in WC3). She now is willing to work with the horde but now holds the lessons she learned from Theramore (different from WC3). She'll help but knows now when to draw the line. (different from WC3).

Now in the shadowlands, most of the "Faction" leaders are shadows of their former selves. Hard to judge anything in that regard since they all now are mere pawns in this cosmic game orchestrated by the Jailer and Co. There's no time to invest on their stories when the fate of all existence hangs in the balance.

[AcidicSyn]

I don't have much problem with Anduin, and right now i dislike Jaina a lot

the problem is how i don't fucking want do quests with then, help then or anything related to then, i didn't sight for alliance, i don't want alliance races near me

Playing alliance i give two shits about Baine and care little for thrall, only having respect for he due to cataclysm, but again, im a worgen/dwarf, i don't want to play or help horde races.

Wow writers dumbly assume we, as entire playerbase, like and want to follow those fuckeheads, regardless of factions, because they are presented as "peace heroes", i miss the old days when quests were mirroed, so we didn't had to interact with the others, now apparently everyone know orcish and common.

I would be totally fine if Horde saved Baine and thrall and alliance going for Anduin and Jaina, Mirrored quests

Reminds me of ICC, I still mained only Horde back then, so naturally, my instance (I forgot the name of the dungeon) was with Sylvanas. For the longest time I thought it was funny that she was the lead in there until I played through on an Alliance alt and it was Jaina instead of Sylvanas; I liked that Blizzard took the trouble to craft two experiences for Alliance vs Horde in that dungeon, felt good.

Fast forward to legion and I am following Tyrande around Valshara(sp?) and helping her when my Blood Elven mage would not have blinked an eye at the chance to attack Tyrande; or at least laugh at her pain. Was a great chain for my Night Elf character, not so much for my main though.


on topic: I like Jaina more than Anduin overall, even though she frustrates me more than he does. I don't hate either though, and I certainly like Anduin more now than I used to.

Also polls borked. Only positive for jaina and anduin is love. I like them both, I don't love them lol

[Soon-TM]

He is essentially an amoeba that consumed entire Alliance.

He has consumed the entire Alliance first, and now he threatens to do the same with the rest of Azeroth - and beyond.

[Syegfryed]

Reminds me of ICC, I still mained only Horde back then, so naturally, my instance (I forgot the name of the dungeon) was with Sylvanas. For the longest time I thought it was funny that she was the lead in there until I played through on an Alliance alt and it was Jaina instead of Sylvanas; I liked that Blizzard took the trouble to craft two experiences for Alliance vs Horde in that dungeon, felt good.

Exactly, and we even had something different in the raid itself, one side you did with Saurfang to bomb the alliance ship, and as alliance you did with the dwarf to bomb the horde ship, to me, that is so damn warcraft.

you are facing Armageddon, the Lich king who can end azeroth life, but you still find time to fight each other for small shit like that, is it logic? no, its counter productive? it is, but fuck it, its a game, it should have shit like that.

Fast forward to legion and I am following Tyrande around Valshara(sp?) and helping her when my Blood Elven mage would not have blinked an eye at the chance to attack Tyrande; or at least laugh at her pain. Was a great chain for my Night Elf character, not so much for my main though.

good i hate those quests, being forced like that, i, an orc, helping her, soo bullshit, this is the kind shit blizzard think is fine, and in other hand they removed baine from highmountain, so alliance players don't feel forced to do quests with an horde leader

[mickybrighteyes]

blizzard can barely do something good related to two factions, its bananas to think they will do something with more, regardless of the scale

they could simply have stories that don't immediately turn into devastating world altering consequences simply because someone gets snubbed in one region... for starters.

We can totally work with minor conflicts, small racial conflicts, backed up by the factions, i don't want to work with "factions", like those huge amount of neutrl bullcrap thing, i want to work on my fellow races, my fellow clans, tribes, etc



but whats the point of that? what is the difference in doing a quest for "goldshire" or "alliance in goldshire"? the name on it doesn't matter, but what you do, and for what reason.[/quote]

Depends on what story is being told. Killing local nuisances that inherently aren't faction related doesn't need to be the same as effectively working conscripted by the army. You nation's biases don't need to be baked into every stage of your character progression.

but lets think about, factions as a role, don't exist, there is no horde or alliance, therefore, i, as a troll, could do quests for goldshire if i want to, same as the other way around, but, what sense in that? why humans of goldshire would want the help of a troll that they fought so fiercely over the years? and why god, trolls would want to help the humans? because champion? not imersive or good at all

I think you're already falling into a trap where you're disregarding what the story could be and assuming it's the current story...

OR are ignoring possible lore motivations like what we see among the cast of characters in the existing game. Like goblins among the SI:7 or Silvermoon Elves that didn't stick aorund with the "Blood Elves". Trolls in particular are all over the place with regards to tribe and where they might be found among non-faction areas....

Again the goldshire as an example was not to say take post cata goldshire where you meet Stormwind Guard [whatshisface] and work with the Alliance milititia... I figured that should have been obvious when also saying that the story could be altered. Think about Bradenbrook, where we all show up to these Worgen from Gilneas and they managed to to nothing related to alliance or horde and entirely be around that town and their immediate issues in the region. No foreign faction invaders, no immediate world ending curses, no ageless terror to be unleashed if no action is taken.

This kind of point of view does not work in a game of WoW, we are build and based around more than 35 years of racism and conflicts, hell, troll and human by example hate is older as far the troll wars can be traced

Again, I'm saying that it doesn't work in wow because they can't produce story for any length of time before devolving into bloody race war for no damn reason posturing with backstory that the current roster of characters aren't related to (for the most part) OR they shit out a new shitstorm to validate the total war scenario (that they won't go through with... i.e. Legion and BFA)

Cataclysm did a good job in focusing on small conflicts in those areas, more focused on racial grudge, you had undeads up in the north fighting humans and worgens, you had orcs x night elves in ashenvale, humans recking durotar against trolls and orcs too, Taurens had a big problem against dwarves and more humans, stuff like that

CAtaclysm was total war story where Garrosh ordered all fronts to expand. Forsaken were fighting in the EK because he demanded a port paved on the bones of the infantry (either sides would work). Ashenvale front because he was expanding Org to secure supplies. Southern barrens front because SW came in to invade Thunderbluff (small story on Thunderbluff supplying clean water to Org that was to be cut off). Every area of story telling you're praising for showing the various rcaes is still directly tainted by the overbearing presence of Orgrimmar and Stormwind specifically directing actions. Those weren't conflicts because of racial issues... Varian declared war and thus Darnassus was sucked into fighting for Stormwind.



Again. When I used Razorhill and Goldshire as examples I used them as they are smaller settlements that previously had issues with their established areas. Not simply faction hubs to ferry us on our way. Ideally, in a less faction centered story, they'd be more like Ratchet or Gadgetzhan.

[Pendragon]

I like them both, but I'm more excited to find out where Anduin's story is going.

[schwank05]

Anduin and Jaina are several of the most iconic and formidable Alliance leaders -- the King of Stormwind and the Lord-Admiral of Kul Tiras -- and they have constantly strove for peace between the Alliance and the Horde players. Both have undergone significant character development over several expansions, and have become controversial among their people and others for their actions and inaction.

They both genuinely seem to desire lasting peace and mutual co-existence, despite having made various mistakes in their pasts and possessing various character flaws and weaknesses -- but what do most Alliance and Horde players think about them in particular? Do most Alliance and Horde players generally like Anduin? Do most people like or despise and mistrust Jaina, despite her apparent personality change in the recent expansion? What is the consensus -- if any?

I wanted to leave every one of the supposed "Heroes" that were trapped in Torghast there indefinitely to be tortured. I'm still loyal to Sylvanas, Let both Factions Burn under the Forsaken Rule.

[chiddie]

They're storytelling vessels to me at this point, not much else. I have much more passionate feelings for other characters.
Like Ve'nari.
God she's hot.
Oh baby.
Let me polish your floaty mask my queen

Yeah I would like to polish that mask too, possibly with an axe halving it in two.

There’s clearly something wrong with her, she’s clearly using us way more than we are using her. Hope that Blizzard will develop her story too, could have an interesting development.

[GreenJesus]

Jaina is one of the most iconic and well-rounded characters in the game. She had a very bumpy history with her viewpoint changing many times (depending which atrocity the Horde had commited in the relevant week). She had to learn the hard way that peace is not always an option because some people do not want peace, but she also learned quickly that she couldn't be the hardliner, so she is now moderate but also won't take shit from anyone anymore.

Anduin is only just forming as a character and he is developing great, especially in the last few cutscenes. Yes, he still wants peace and justice for everyone, but he can be quite headstrong and he also has some very sassy moments. In BFA he lost a lot of his innocence without turning into a grey character. He might just have more willpower then any other character at the time. Not to mention that his strength in the Light is immense, strong enough to resist the Jailer in his own domain even for a few moments. I am hoping very much that he will not have to be a sacrifice so that Sylvanas finds her redemption...



Because she was afterwards instrumental in saving you from your own Warchief that is now trying to destroy the cosmos mayyybe? Nah, why would you care about that. And that was after your friends wanted to use her dead brother in a disgusting scheme to murder her entire family, destroyed her city and murdered her friends.

But sure, that megalomanic Troll King was innocene personified and thus his death makes up for everything.

Meanwhile the Alliance saved Baine from torture and death a second time in just over a year and Thrall on top, knowing that at the first moment of calm in the future the Horde will turn on us again.

I wish Baine was tortured more. He deserves it. And Jaina's brother existing is a retcon. He should have been burnt shark poop after being on the bottom of the ocean floor after being burnt to a crisp by dragonfire over 20 years ago. What did Jaina do to "save me from my own warchief?" Saurfang just committed suicide and then Sylvanas (the writers) decided to yeet the fuck out. If it wasn't for Jaina we wouldn't have even had the Battle for Azeroth expansion since the Alliance leadership would have been defeated right there in Lordaeron. Apparently Jaina has the power to nullify the entire battlefield of plague? Jaina literally exists as a plot device for cinematics.

[Raisei]

I wish Baine was tortured more. He deserves it. And Jaina's brother existing is a retcon. He should have been burnt shark poop after being on the bottom of the ocean floor after being burnt to a crisp by dragonfire over 20 years ago. What did Jaina do to "save me from my own warchief?" Saurfang just committed suicide and then Sylvanas (the writers) decided to yeet the fuck out. If it wasn't for Jaina we wouldn't have even had the Battle for Azeroth expansion since the Alliance leadership would have been defeated right there in Lordaeron. Apparently Jaina has the power to nullify the entire battlefield of plague? Jaina literally exists as a plot device for cinematics.

And it is your great fortune that the Alliance was not beaten that day, because then there would have been no one to safe you from your Warchief. Again.

[Muxtar]

I really liked Jaina as she was pre-Theramor bombing. After that she was made as some unstable psycho, a change that was too radical even considering all the tragedy she suffered. Then in BfA all of a sudden she appears as calm and never-raging Mary Sue, who owns everyone else in magic. Too unnatural.
As for Anduin - how else can I think of never-wrong golden shining always-right boy with eternal wisdom of universe in his 20-years oldish eyes? He is too right and too boring.

[Whitedragon]

As a player who plays 60%~ Alliance, I like Jaina a lot, and am okay with Anduin. Only thing I would change about the young boy king is give him a little bit more "bite", and from the way the story is going it sounds like we may get that.

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Why doesn't the Horde tell Valeera to assassinate Tyrande?

Because Valeera considers both sides home, and would probably turn down the request.

[ohwell]

Dislike them both, but due to different motives

Anduin is an ok character, but the writers seem focused on making the universe bend to his wishes

Jaina was a good character but had so many ups and downs that I just cant stand her anymore.

If they had made the horde in general more complicit with Theramore and made Theramore less guilty(harboring troops to assault the horde) I might have seen her swap to hatred a little more acceptable. I would have loved it more if she had no idea about the troops but then found out and blamed Alliance leaders for it while still condemning the Horde. Instead it's like "oh we're innocent, but hey don't look at those instruments of war that are going to hit either Durotar or the Barrens even though I'm against fighting the Horde......wait HOW DARE YOU BLOW UP EVERYTHING!"

Now it's even more annoying where everything was trying to show her there were good people in the Horde and she still has this spit in the face of a Horde player when it comes to Torghast quests(I think less so on Maw intro for some reason). Like she's all buddy buddy with Thrall and Baine again and then right in front of them it's just "rawr you suck!" to the player.

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As a player who plays 60%~ Alliance, I like Jaina a lot, and am okay with Anduin. Only thing I would change about the young boy king is give him a little bit more "bite", and from the way the story is going it sounds like we may get that.

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Because Valeera considers both sides home, and would probably turn down the request.

Eh honestly her loyalty really lies with the Wrynn family due to Varian. I think it would more have to do with Anduin would take it as a betrayal and she really doesn't take orders from anyone that I've seen. She follows requests sure, but unless it was a decision that Anduin specifically endorsed she wouldn't. If Genn and Horde leaders somehow wanted her to do it, I still couldn't see her doing it.

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I wish Baine was tortured more. He deserves it. And Jaina's brother existing is a retcon. He should have been burnt shark poop after being on the bottom of the ocean floor after being burnt to a crisp by dragonfire over 20 years ago. What did Jaina do to "save me from my own warchief?" Saurfang just committed suicide and then Sylvanas (the writers) decided to yeet the fuck out. If it wasn't for Jaina we wouldn't have even had the Battle for Azeroth expansion since the Alliance leadership would have been defeated right there in Lordaeron. Apparently Jaina has the power to nullify the entire battlefield of plague? Jaina literally exists as a plot device for cinematics.

I mean it could be that he was restored by Sylvanas with whatever assortment of new powers she has. Otherwise, yeah you're right. I mean hell she transferred Nathanos into his cousin(I think it was)'s body because it was decayed/ing.

[McNeil]

Jaina is very much flip-flopping in quality. Loved her in WC3, was passive in Classic-TBC (didn't like how she went from neutral to Alliance though), had a good role in WotLK, dissapeared again in Cata, didn't like apeshit Jaina in MoP, Dissapears again for a few expansions, was decent in BFA, back to being annoying now (so tired of saving her as Horde AFTER SHE RAIDED MY BOY RASTAKHAN). Also as someone else mentioned before its gotten really tiresome to hear her voice. Her WC3 voice sounded calm and sweet, with Laura Bailey she constantly sounds exhausted and needs to lay off smoking.

Anduin had potential but then turned into this ''golden boy'' with massive plot armor (considering that there's a huge chance that he might turn old in a vision). At least he is known to show some flaws like constantly doubting himself if he should even be at such a high position while there are obviously much better suited candidates around. I'm not even sure where Anduins story needs to go for me to be satisfied with. Maybe after Shadowlands he should find some hot draenei girl, leave his position as king and live somewhere on a farm.

As of now I don't really care for either. Jaina has been around for to long as her story could have been wrapped up in an order where she is first forgiven by the Kul'Tirans, then participates in defeating Arthas where she gets turned into the Lich Queen after a failed attempt to turn Arthas around. Anduin hasn't really been doing anything interesting despite getting a lot of screen time, I hope that changes soon.

[huth]

Yes. Most Alliance and Horde players like or dislike Anduin and Jaina.

[DeltrusDisc]

I'm okay with Jaina, but I kinda loathe Anduin.

I'm a Night Elf since January 2008. The Night Elves ought to be in charge of the Alliance. The humans are the youngest race in the Alliance and the Draenei are the newest race to be introduced. (Ignoring Allied Races for obvious reasons here).

I already didn't like Anduin, then him more or less letting Teldrassil get assaulted and almost doing nothing about it, forcing Tyrande to go out on her own... yeah, no. No respect. He's a horrible leader in that regard. Teldrassil is more than the home of the Night Elves - it's A WORLD TREE.

Sylvanas ordered its destruction. She's therefore very much evil. (Writers seemingly trying to almost retcon this fact very recently is... aggravating.)

Like others have said, Anduin needs to learn that not everyone should or can be forgiven for everything. Thousands of innocents were killed by Sylvanas' order.

I DEMAND JUSTICE, RETRIBUTION, VENGEANCE.

[Zig Zug]

I'd welcome a change in leadership, but I'm not sure I'd like the new Blizzard style of characters.

Jania feels forced at this point.

Anduin is a terrible character all around, and really captures the "man-boy" aesthetic too much.

[Candy Cough]

I loathe anduin. He is just so pretentious goodie two shoes that can do nothing wrong. Him punching Wrathion was a step in the right direction but nope, it was just N'zoth influence. Anduin isnt capable of feeling anger apparently

Jaina has become rather intollerable too. I liked her before but she keeps whining about the horde destroying theramore even though she used it as the staging ground to spearhead an invasion into the barrens and nearly invade mulgore. She spent the entire beginning of BFA earning back the respect of her people for collaborating with thrall against her father but then she just allies with the horde again?

This goodie two shoes writing is destroying the story. They even removed gallywix to have a goblin talking about fair wages and work enviroments. Same with the forsaken. They literally joined the horde because the alliance rejected them and actively hunted them down then they are suddenly going to bend the knee to the sister of the man who destroyed their kingdom

[Soon-TM]

This goodie two shoes writing is destroying the story. They even removed gallywix to have a goblin talking about fair wages and work enviroments. Same with the forsaken. They literally joined the horde because the alliance rejected them and actively hunted them down then they are suddenly going to bend the knee to the sister of the man who destroyed their kingdom

Just remember how Anduin managed to bridge the gap between the living and the undead in 15 minutes or so of friendly chat. These Forsaken dudes/dudettes, previously depicted as vengeful, cold-hearted sociopaths (due to undeath robbing them most of their ability to experiment positive emotions), all of a sudden became pitiable sadsacks oppressed by a caricature of a police state, who only wished to hug their living relatives under Anduin's (and his BFF Calia's) benevolent gaze.

[bagina]

I loathe anduin. He is just so pretentious goodie two shoes that can do nothing wrong. Him punching Wrathion was a step in the right direction but nope, it was just N'zoth influence. Anduin isnt capable of feeling anger apparently

I know right. That moment right there. At first I was like "nice, finally" but the story quickly told me to curb my enthusiasm. The scene only cemented to me that Anduin will never stoop to the level of mere mortals and display such extremely toxic emotions like anger. What the hell, even freaking Jesus physically lashed out at the merchants, Blizz! Your character can display a variety of emotions and still be Jesus, honest!