There's an easy solution to balance PvP

[XDurionX]

Instead of balancing 3 specs per class, you now have 6, great job.

[Serodaris]

Pvp balance:

Make a vendor where you can buy full pvp gear 226 for free. This gear only worked in RATED Arena and bg. Outside of competition it has zero stats.
Other gear has zero stats in rated.

No enchants gems etc work in arena. First step
Second step
Balance pvp on this gear.
If ret prot heal is overturned reduce it in rated.
If ww fire mage burst is to high reduce it in rated.
Same like they do with hunt condinouit or warri def stance (outside 20% 10% in arena 20% 20%), Ms damage and heal reduce (20% less damage and 25% less heal reduce in pvp.
So they can buff and nerf things for rated without impact in pve.

Progress comes from the gear you earn for outside rated. So you have progress on your char for pve and not rated pvp and a clear pvp environment to start balancing..

[Aleax]

It would be easy for them to balance PvP by restrictions such as the ones you suggested, or similar ones.

Problem is, they don't WANT that. They have stated repeatedly that their intention is to have PvE and PvP accessible for everyone with minimal differences so people can just jump from one into the other as they please.

They're totally fine if this means PvP at the high end isn't super balanced, because that affects a tiny portion of the player base - and much like the high-end hardcore PvE players, those players will basically deal with whatever they have to. Blizzard's main target is the broad middle, not the extreme ends of the playerbase.

This. Me approving their stance (Blizzard' stance) BTW.

[deenman]

The question is, would the players accept that solution?

Currently, most skills are pretty much the same for both PvP and PvE.
And you get all of them at your disposal in both modes.
So that can be 20+ skills and on top of that macros that you can use.

If Blizzard gave us, say 12-13 buttons and PvP only skills completely separate from PvE, that would make the PvP skills and classes piss easy to balance.

Players would be forced into thinking, adaptation and improvising.
This change would focus on player skill and knowledge not jusy gear and mashing buttons like it currently is in most cases.

But it would probably be a big change. Too big for players to accept.

but skils do get balanced differently in pvp,they dont have the same values and power in pvp as in pve,also this just adds a very unneeded entry barrier to pvp or pve depending on where your coming from,pvp in wow has a fairly high skill cap but low entry barrier,this would change that for the worse

the lack of balance in pvp exists for the same reason it doesnt in pve,thats how the devs like it,they have stated over and over that they dont want every class to perform the same and have all the tools for every situation frostbolt just a copy of shadowbolt,one aoe=other aoe,stuns etc

[Swnem]

The vocal PvP players don't want balanced PvP.

That is the problem.

Legion with templates was the best WoW PvP has been in terms of skill mattering and having an enjoyable experience where you aren't blown up in a global. But, that is exactly what players wanted. The whole "Rextroy" thing is a consequence of that. Players want to exploit and one shot. That is what they find fun. Well, the vocal ones anyways.

I have stopped PvP'ing after Legion when i realised that. I am never gonna enjoy unbalanced PvP, so i just took it out of my list of activities for my own sanity.

[Enclave]

The vocal PvP players don't want balanced PvP.

That is the problem.

Legion with templates was the best WoW PvP has been in terms of skill mattering and having an enjoyable experience where you aren't blown up in a global. But, that is exactly what players wanted. The whole "Rextroy" thing is a consequence of that. Players want to exploit and one shot. That is what they find fun. Well, the vocal ones anyways.

I have stopped PvP'ing after Legion when i realised that. I am never gonna enjoy unbalanced PvP, so i just took it out of my list of activities for my own sanity.

Its true, all the casuals are enjoying this oneshot fest that's going on right now because it means they can get kills even on good players

[Devilyaki]

Only way to balance it 100% would be to put everyone in a vehicle that have the same moves and go from there lol.

[Gotural]

The vocal PvP players don't want balanced PvP.

That is the problem.

Legion with templates was the best WoW PvP has been in terms of skill mattering and having an enjoyable experience where you aren't blown up in a global. But, that is exactly what players wanted. The whole "Rextroy" thing is a consequence of that. Players want to exploit and one shot. That is what they find fun. Well, the vocal ones anyways.

I have stopped PvP'ing after Legion when i realised that. I am never gonna enjoy unbalanced PvP, so i just took it out of my list of activities for my own sanity.

No,the whole WoW PvP community was destroyed with Legion and its scaling. Participation numbers dropped drastically and nearly all great players can't fathom how bad PvP was under Legion and BfA. Legion was the epitome of unskilled PvP as they removed nearly all impactful abilities, utility spells and CC alike.

Legion is the expac where Rogue lost Gouge and Garrote as Sub for example, but this could be applied to ANY class in the game. Legion is the expac where grinding AP and PvEing your opponents became prevalent.

Since Shadowlands and the ability unpruning + the fast paced meta, PvP is a real thing once again. Skill Capped relaunch their PvP video guides for a reason => there is a strong demand. Participation is very high right now and its the first time since I don't know how many years that forums are not only filled with negatives posts and threads, but also with positive ones. Most great players and youtubers are really happy with Shadowlands and it's definitely one of the expacs with the highest skill cap.

WotLK and MoP are considered as the best PvP expacs with SL and they share the same similarities, high burst and lots of spells/cc/outplay potential. That plus a gearing system that allow you to destoy randoms in random bgs after you are done grinding your gladiator conquest gear.

Shadowlands is not perfect, but it's freaking awesome and a LOT better balanced that people want to believe. Nearly every classes have S tier comps availables, and the one who don't are still great in RBG like DKs and Affliction Warlocks.

[Swnem]

No,the whole WoW PvP community was destroyed with Legion and its scaling. Participation numbers dropped drastically and nearly all great players can't fathom how bad PvP was under Legion and BfA. Legion was the epitome of unskilled PvP as they removed nearly all impactful abilities, utility spells and CC alike.

Legion is the expac where Rogue lost Gouge and Garrote as Sub for example, but this could be applied to ANY class in the game. Legion is the expac where grinding AP and PvEing your opponents became prevalent.

Since Shadowlands and the ability unpruning + the fast paced meta, PvP is a real thing once again. Skill Capped relaunch their PvP video guides for a reason => there is a strong demand. Participation is very high right now and its the first time since I don't know how many years that forums are not only filled with negatives posts and threads, but also with positive ones. Most great players and youtubers are really happy with Shadowlands and it's definitely one of the expacs with the highest skill cap.

WotLK and MoP are considered as the best PvP expacs with SL and they share the same similarities, high burst and lots of spells/cc/outplay potential. That plus a gearing system that allow you to destoy randoms in random bgs after you are done grinding your gladiator conquest gear.

Shadowlands is not perfect, but it's freaking awesome and a LOT better balanced that people want to believe. Nearly every classes have S tier comps availables, and the one who don't are still great in RBG like DKs and Affliction Warlocks.

You started with No, but you said Yes. That is exactly what i said. People want to one shot, that is what is "popular".

[Gotural]

You started with No, but you said Yes. That is exactly what i said. People want to one shot, that is what is "popular".

My "No" was an answer to your

"The vocal PvP players don't want balanced PvP.
That is the problem.
Legion with templates was the best WoW PvP has been in terms of skill mattering and having an enjoyable experience where you aren't blown up in a global."

In other words ...

=> People want balanced PvP, vocal or not. Shadowlands is actually pretty balanced, especially for a season start (seasons 1 of WotLK, Cata and MoP were h.o.r.r.i.b.l.y. unbalanced, and I can show you p.l.e.n.t.y of video proof).

=> Legion was probably the expac where skill mattered the least.

[Swnem]

My "No" was an answer to your

"The vocal PvP players don't want balanced PvP.
That is the problem.
Legion with templates was the best WoW PvP has been in terms of skill mattering and having an enjoyable experience where you aren't blown up in a global."

In other words ...

=> People want balanced PvP, vocal or not. Shadowlands is actually pretty balanced, especially for a season start (seasons 1 of WotLK, Cata and MoP were h.o.r.r.i.b.l.y. unbalanced, and I can show you p.l.e.n.t.y of video proof).

=> Legion was probably the expac where skill mattered the least.

Ok, i disagree with that then.

I think Legion was the most balanced cause players couldn't take advantage of loopholes in the system or stack certain stats and trinkets for one-shot moments. I also disagree that skill mattered the least because that was when team play was important. One shot moments are not skillful. Managing to recover from that may seem, but it's not really a team play moment.

I can agree with SL is probably more balanced than previous ones bar Legion.

[Strawberry]

Bumping my old thread because, well, the only way you can balance PvP is by separating it from PvE.
Versatility should be a PvP only stat and completely useless in PvE (or come up with a new PvP stat).
Skills should be completely different in PvP and PvE.
And of course, covenant abilities have no place in PvP. Unless completely separated from PvE.

There is no other way, and if you think otherwise, it's you being delusional. I guess whining is the only option then.

[Cerejobastos]

Solution for balance is less spells, no borrowed power and no active racials (or no racials at all).

Also resilience should help, I guess.

Would make balancing both pve and pvp easier.
Would it be good or well accepted?
Maybe not.