blizzard force raiders into pvp... again...

[Vrinara]

I don't think blizz is forcing you to do anything. They don't force any of us to do any of the end game stuff. We chose to do it. It's been like this since vanilla. Blizz made the game so we can have fun. Not make it a job, for us to turn into toddlers and blame them. Maybe take a break from the game?

Anyways. I am going to bed. Said my peace. Hope people think on it a little. Cause I don't feel forced to do anything. And I likely wont reply to anyone who replies to me, so best of luck.

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Just in case this isn't a troll post, the only thing you're entitled to for paying your sub is access to the servers as is. The end.

This. ^^^^^^

[Toybox]

I've actually enjoyed getting 220 gear for nothing from PvP It's quite alright if you ask me.

[ClassicPeon]

You are choosing to play a game a certain way and complaining about the known and foreseen drawbacks of that way. If you can't sustain what that playstyle requires anymore, maybe you should reassess your expectations.

It's always going to be some degenerate grinding if you want to be a tryhard. The game is intentionally designed that way. That's the price you pay.

Or, you know, they could just change it for the betterment of everyone. Its not like ihad to grind pvp before, so its not a sustained thing.

[[Apok]]

I find it funny that out of 13 mythic boss kills so far, I have whole 1 mythic item to show for it and even that item is just some shitty ass cloak.

That's several weeks of of work there for nothing.

But hey, I'm getting 1.8k RBG tomorrow with our PvEvP team - finally some decent loot coming yup.

35 runs of spires over the last ferw days to try and get empyreal ordnance/

What do i get the fucking cloak and head i dont need. fuck this game, also two drops out of 35 runs what a load of shit.

[Aleax]

I am glad that WoW is still a generalist game. There is PvE, and there is PvP. We can do one or the other, following our mood. That's the beauty of the game.

[Toybox]

I'm all for PvP gearing in general, but it's crazy how much PvP gear our raid team is currently using versus how many PvP pieces they're using. Every one of our healers who touches PvP was using more than double the amount of PvP gear on our first Xymox kill than they were gear from Mythic itself Hell, one of our Resto Shaman's was using 9 PvP pieces on the kill Another using five, and a priest with four (while only having 2x raid pieces).

Considering most of this (apart from the first Shaman) is from casual RBG play & dicking around between raids, it feels rather extreme. I'd rather see PvE droprates tuned up rather than PvP gear rates tuned down, though.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

Anyone defending the current state of itemization is just biased af.
Blizz always trys to fix something and overdoes it. I have been playing m+ way more than arena. I have been raiding since the first week, currently progressing stone legion. Our whole roster pushed most of our ilvl through arena, we even had 2 healers reroll and pushed them to from 0-220+ gear in the last weeks.
It is just absurd how much faster and more efficient gearing via pvp currently is. Just the fact that you can choose your gear and easily push your ilvl...while in pve you keep spamming a fkton of DOS keys still waiting for your shitty bis-trinket. And even when it drops it is under the ilvl of the stuff you get for 1800 rating which is super-easy to get atm. Just feels bad.
Blizz said at some point they did not want people to gear up too quickly in m+ and then they make gearing easier than ever through pvp. It just makes no sense. And is a kick in the nuts for people who don't want to pvp.
We all benefit if every player enjoys the game...casual, hardcore, semihardcore, pve-only, pvp-only. I understand that after the bfa shitshow pvpers are very happy atm, but imho something needs to change with the next content patch.

[munkeyinorbit]

I find it funny that out of 13 mythic boss kills so far, I have whole 1 mythic item to show for it and even that item is just some shitty ass cloak.

That's several weeks of of work there for nothing.

But hey, I'm getting 1.8k RBG tomorrow with our PvEvP team - finally some decent loot coming yup.

I hope you get a cloak.

[Gaidax]

I hope you get a cloak.

After getting 1800 and one more week finally loot gates opened.

Ilvl 223 now.

[kamuimac]

After getting 1800 and one more week finally loot gates opened.

Ilvl 223 now.

you gonna say thats its a good game design though ?

[Gaidax]

you gonna say thats its a good game design though ?

I mean, I think I clearly said it's not on several occasions.

They do seem to be aware from latest interview, so I expect 9.1/2 to be improved on that front. After all they nailed it with PvP.

[Marrilaife]

And is a kick in the nuts for people who don't want to pvp.

They don't care. Forcing pvers to pvp is their favourite hobby, the amount of times pvp rewarded something exclusive like an essence, badge trinket, etc. that was must have if you wanted to min max in pve is not even funny. The amount of times pvp was "the" way to gear from tbc arenas to wod ashran, is also not even funny. When warmode was implemented, they kept increasing the buffs and rewards and adding 3 different lucrative weekly quests to push people into warmode.

The only time people weren't forced to pvp was Legion I think? When templates were up. And ofc pvpers cried so it got reverted.

[dileria]

You dont get random loot drops from rated pvp anymore. You need to understand and remember that. Shadowlands is not BFA.
-> Rated Pvp is not spammable for Geardrops.
You get conquest points -> The amount has a weekly lockout (fill your weekly conquest bar)
(Just like a Boss / a Raid has a weekly lockout)
So in this regard Raids and Rated Pvp are comparable. Once you filled your bar/killed all Bosses -> no more additional item chances for you.

One conquest bar = ~ about one item per week (or a third of a weapon...)
One Full Raid Clear = 60 Items distributed among.. lets say 20 Players -> On Average 1.5 Items per Player per week

So on average a Mythic Raider (10/10) will get more Items per week than a Gladiator PVP-Player.
^Sadly getting more items doesnt mean getting better items... so yeah I have to admit, that the pvp gear system is VERY efficient right now.

Mythic plus in regards to the loot system is not comparable to neither Raids nor rated PVP. Its the only Gamemode in WoW right now which has spammable Chances for Geardrops.
I checked your Raider.io @ztn. You have about 1.1rio, while having 4/10hc kills.
So i guess you consider yourself as a main mythic+ player. If your goal is to push rio as much as possible you have to improve your gear (and maybe also skill)... hence you are forced to do rated PvP BUT also Raids. (Why are you still 4/10hc and 0/10mythic - its PVE isnt it?)

You choose yourself how much you are willing to invest for your own gear progression and goal.

You also reached challenger once in BFA Season 1. Well Done i guess?
You didnt like the gamemode? Dont hate the gamemode (and blizzard) for it being rewarding.

Gear is valuable for every Player - not only PVE-Players. So why should PVP-Player get no gear rewards?

You choose yourself how much you are willing to invest for your own gear progression and goal.

on a side note:
Blizzard Gear philosophy is that the best rewards are timegated (Vault) and/or require hard content to do. (high rated arenas, and mythic raid progression)
Imagine you would:
Spam your m+ with randoms and in about 15 weeks you will be decked out in 226 gear. (Thank the Vault for that)
Spam Arena with randoms for 15 weeks you probably still wont have a full 226 set. (Chances are that you cant achieve 2400 rating :P, probably 2100 neither...)
Spam Raids with Randoms. Same as Arena-> You probably wont kill any mythic bosses (maybe shriekwing a few times) -> no full 226 set.

--> The m+ player is the winner in the long run.
(Excluding those 233 weapon)

A mix of all of those systems will be the fastest way to get a 226 set. Dont be a hater because you chose to cripple yourself by focusing on one gamemode exclusively instead of on the game as a whole.

Summary:
PVP Gearing is rewarding. (Very rewarding right now - true)
So are the other Gamemodes.
You want to be efficient at gearing? Get good/invest your time on all gamemodes.
(Play some reallife pvp for all i care and put some money in the auction house for those 226 BOE's)

As several people already said, no one is forcing you.

[Gaidax]

One conquest bar = ~ about one item per week (or a third of a weapon...)
One Full Raid Clear = 60 Items distributed among.. lets say 20 Players -> On Average 1.5 Items per Player per week

So on average a Mythic Raider (10/10) will get more Items per week than a Gladiator PVP-Player.

You only need 2100 for 226 loot. That is considerably less effort than 10/10 Mythic. And you conveniently drop the fact that with conquest you can target specific piece you want, where as raid you are at mercy of RNG.

Heck even getting 1800 rating, a thing you can do in a day or even less from 0 - you already start getting 220 gear. It's not even close to raiding, it's silly to even compare.

This all is a bunch of talk anyway, Blizz acknowledged there is an issue with PvE gear acquisition so I expect them to address it next tier.

[Charles123]

You only need 2100 for 226 loot. That is considerably less effort than 10/10 Mythic. And you conveniently drop the fact that with conquest you can target specific piece you want, where as raid you are at mercy of RNG.

Heck even getting 1800 rating, a thing you can do in a day or even less from 0 - you already start getting 220 gear. It's not even close to raiding, it's silly to even compare.

This all is a bunch of talk anyway, Blizz acknowledged there is an issue with PvE gear acquisition so I expect them to address it next tier.

Grinding and upgrading gear takes an insane amount of time, but I agree that rbg is really easy.

[dileria]

@gaidex
I said on average you get more gear through raiding, if you can clear 10/10 -> getting more isnt necessarily better - yes rng sucks. (i already wrote that)
...and you also "conveniently dropped the fact" that i wrote that pvp gearing is very efficient right now. (yes targeted items are great)

Getting 2100 rating (and filling that conquest bar) is less effort than getting 10/10mythic - 100%Agree
Getting one (or lets say 4 for some vault choice) m14 keys is even less effort though. (imho)

Raiders get 2,5 items per week (Vault + 1.5 random item drops)
Pvp Players get ~2items (Vault and conquest buy)
M+ get 1 Item (Vault)
But m+ gear rewards (210 at max) are spammable.

So which method is the best now? It doesn't matter in my opinion.
I also do not know which metric is a fair comparison.

I do think, that gearing exclusivly through pvp isnt faster than gearing exclusivly by pvp.
I also do believe that getting those 226 rewards via pvp is harder (skillwise) than via pve.
I also do admit though that m+ reward system feels lackluster, if your goal is to get a 226 gear set as fast as possible. BUT its also the easiest way to achieve it with randoms (in the long run)

I raid with my guild, do some m+ and at the end of the week i fill some weak gear slots with pvp.
Great as a whole system - for me at least.

and regarding your last sentence:
Yeah they acknowledged that they will change sth.
Preach talked about badges... i dont know if this is the right choice though - in the end people will get their badges and still feel "forced" to also fill the conquest bar.
Maybe m+ and pvp should instead both contribute towards the conquest bar. So people can buy gear with with their conquest points and upgrade it depending on their highest key / rating. (give people some incentive to push beyond m15 - outside of rio ^^)
This way we dont increase the amount of gear, and remove the exclusive incentive to pvp, which according to this thread many people want.

[ohwell]

This reminds me a lot of early BC, where people queued for arenas and didn't care about winning or losing, because there was sweet welfare loot incoming. I still remember how the S1 shield carried me all the way up to BT as a prot pally, none the less. Loot from raids is for tryhards

The funny thing is honestly the pvp gear wasn't/isn't really worth it in the long run. Sure on paper it seems like it could be, but when you factor in how many terrible players have invaded pvp it adds to the inconsistency of honor gains(doesn't necessarily change the total over time) and also adds a lot of hardship in playing whereas just simply doing the campaign gets you access to better gear short of certain slots(doing both of course is slightly better but you don't need to in order to raid)

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I am confused. I do not see how that is forced. What am I missing?

people assume ilvl implies skill etc. There's plenty of time to clear normal(the only thing that pvp gear even remotely applies to if that) before the next content and if you're planning on alts, you can work on them in tandem instead.

[Kalisandra]

when in game about equiping your character there is 2 ways:
1. 216ivl every 5mins = 12x216ivl/hour
2. 210ivl every 40min per 5ppl = 0.3x210ilvl/hour
it's called exactly FORCED

So how exactly does one get an item every 5 mins from PvP?

[D3athsting]

When best pve trinkets are not from raids nor m+ but from pvp there's something terribly wrong with the system

[Wedny22]

For me its simple. i refuse to pvp (is dislike it, i suck at it, i get insane toxic and i dont want that) but niet, i dont have a choice anymore.
I didn't get loot 32(!) Dungeons (its not a joke..its for real) and did not get loot in two raids..it even got zoo bad that a guildie passed his cloak to me, since hè got a leggo there (but was still An ugrade, for AOE, thx bro). Soo i AM holding my raid back.
Starting to pvp now...i would NEVER have done it of blizz did something about loot protection of something.
I dont care about loot..but of it stops me for doing some raiding, yea, fck dat.