I think the story needs a Red Wedding style surprise

[mrspidey]

The WoW writers aren't anywhere near the level of those from GoT around the time the Red Wedding took place.

The season 8 writers though..... thats a different story

It's literally the same guys. They just ran out of books after season 5.

[LordVargK]

We absolutely knew there was an afterlife. Spirits constantly are present and traveling in Azeroth and in Draenor. This is a constant. We even got a confirmation in Odyn's and Helya's after life zones. The fact spirits were called back. Souls trapped in soulmoure... the very existence of warlock soul magic. The suicide argument is rather silly, if anything I believe it would make people fight even harder to live.

We knew there was an afterlive for some, but not for everyone. I wouldn't call being a spirit a real afterlive and not anyone got into Odyn's or Helya's realm. If I would have asked you 2 years ago where the soldiers that died in the battle for lordaeron went, wouldn't you have told me that they are just dead?
Also in universe there was no knowledge of the Shadowlands, even Helya didn't bring it up.

[Yriel]

You mistake urself with Sylvanas and Baine.

I don't see a single logic point for Anduin dying after losing his father.

As opposed to Baine dying after losing his father?

[Toppy]

So sick of this story telling style popularized by GOT where people feel they have to kill off characters.

I even LIKE the book series, but have to admit Martin at this point uses sudden deaths as a crutch.

[nonameelf]

I'd be ok with Jaina or Anduin dying at this point honestly

Anduin please. He is complete cancer to the story.

[Toppy]

Anduin please. He is complete cancer to the story.

Anduin, sadly, IS the story.

Thanks Golden.

[Gaidax]

Not sure how can anyone ask for this after whole BFA whether it's Teldrassil, Sadfang or whole Sylvanas thing. Why at this point I'd be glad to take a breather from all these aftershocks and handle a stock WoW villain story no.34.

It's like that recent ingame cinematic where Anduin said to Sylv "I am so tired of your games..." - damn straight. I think it's about time things get wrapped up, instead of getting yet another silly plot twist.

[Dalheim]

Yes please. Wipe out Baine and every tauren in WoW. That'd be a good day.

Sylvanas should just be killed off-screen and never be mentioned again.

[Piesor]

I don't think that Blizzards storytelling will change drastically. From what I experienced regarding storytelling there might be the following two scenarios:
1. Sylvanas' "masterplan" was to kill the jailer since he is responsible for the rise of Arthas that led to her (un)death. She will finish the jailer and finally die and find peace. Vol'Jins prophecy becomes true and she saved Azeroth
2. Tyrande will continue her epic killing spree and finish Sylvanas (final raidboss 8.1 / 8.2)? Together with her we will confront the jailer.

I would definitely love to see a real storytwist, something completely unexpected. i also do not like the idea that the Jailer should be the final Boss of the expansion. Imo he is quite a weak Villain and I still laugh out loud everytime I hear "nothing escapes the maw" crap when jumping in and out on a daily basis by clicking on a big waystone in the middle of the maw. I don't want another 0815 filler story to be slowly dragged towards the final fight against the jailer. There is definitely potential by using the different bahviour of time between the shadowlands and Azeroth and to get back to Azeroth in 8.3 and the world just completely changed.

[nonameelf]

Anduin, sadly, IS the story.

Thanks Golden.

I can't fucking stand him. I've disliked him since MoP and every expansion he just gets worse and more important to the story.

[VinceVega]

Sylvannas has long out worn her welcome but she isn't the only lore character who has been around forever for the sake of it. I think when we are first questing in shadowlands and the Jailer drops Baine, there was an opportunity to kill Baine right there. I don't have anything against Baine at all but that would've done leaps and bound for making the Jailer feel like a really evil and bad being. Currently he seems like a pissy guy who maybe Sylvannas is going to betray, but i certainly don't feel like "oh god this guys going to ruin and rule the world if we don't do something"

I don't want characters to die for nothing, I just don't feel the overall threat looming yet. I am however enjoying most of the expansion

I agree, that the jailor is a non thread right now.
But i do think that is intentional.

As we don't really know anything about him because no one wants to tell us, because they don't trust us.
That is the content of the first patch.
Getting the trust of the covenants and finding out if the jailor is even a thread. He did not really do anything big. He is gulping up the souls of everyone. But we don't even know how. We don't even know why he is chained up. The covenenat leaders do know that.

All of that will be in the .1 patch.

Just killing characters for the sake of it is not good story telling. Neither i dripfeeding information and lore... because right now the big evil is a nonentetiy. We know about him but that is that. Even the torture seems to be inconsequential as neither THrall, Baine or Jaina got any damage from it... they are back to normal immediatly.
Which is weird.

I think the jailor is ging to do something in the next patch. But only then. Becuase if he would start right now we would have to act right now. Which would make him not the endboss of the expansion again...

[Gaidax]

I agree, that the jailor is a non thread right now.

I mean, the guy tore a portal to hell in the sky, kidnapped key faction leaders, drove destruction of Teldrassil, Undercity and the whole BFA war through his agent and he's a non-threat?

KEKW.

[Pony Soldier]

No we don't. We've had plenty of major character deaths. So much that it made Blizzard seem like they were watching too much Game of Thrones.

In my opinion, I feel it's one of the reasons why WoW's story feels so empty and mild because there's no interesting characters to get behind and care about anymore.

Jaina's always been "meh" to me and sadly Lor'themar too despite me loving his character design.

Anduin is alright, probably the best out of the small band of characters we have left and that's only because he's the son of Varian who was one of my favorite characters.

Sylvanas is just getting boring with her whole power hungry bitchy attitude she's had since Legion, it's getting old now.

Tyrande has somehow become less interesting when she became a fem edgelord. Just like Sylvanas she's become like some invincible god but this one has a pathetic simp for a husband. "TYRANDE! I NEED you!".

Baine is disappointingly useless as well. Every expansion Blizzard just makes him a typical NPC who stands around with his finger up his nose and whenever he does see some action he's off getting his ass beat. Not to mention that he's like Princess Peach constantly getting kidnapped and needing rescuing. I mean seriously this is, what, like the third or fourth time he's been captured by somebody? Big ass tauren like him constantly getting captured like some damsel in distress, it's embarrassing.

I almost forgot about Thrall too who used to basically be the Mario of Blizzard. Now, he's become a useless soyboy always getting his ass kicked and it's as if Blizzard for some reason made him dumb as a board these days. Never wants to do anything but be with his equally useless wife and his child who seems to not be of any importance at all since, for all I know, he's been a baby since Cataclysm. I would think by now he should be at least the age Anduin was when he went to Pandaria so I would say he should at least be old enough to have some character development but nothing is ever said about him. Maybe there never will.

Everyone else just feels like seat warmers. Nobody really shines anymore. Doesn't help either that Blizzard seems to care more about identity politics these days than making a good story with characters we can actually care about. First with BFA with pretty much every main/important NPC character being the "strong independent woman who don't need no man" type and now we "excitingly" have our first transsexual NPC character who was announced as if it was some important piece to the puzzle WoW was missing for years. Then to go along with the theme in SL, I've noticed NPCs call me "they" or "them" instead of just calling me hero like they always used to. It's a shame they care more for SJW virtue signaling in the name of "MUH equality" and "MUH representation" than the game itself. Gotta complete that checklist I guess.

[VinceVega]

I mean, the guy tore a portal to hell in the sky, kidnapped key faction leaders, drove destruction of Teldrassil, Undercity and the whole BFA war through his agent and he's a non-threat?

KEKW.

Well... we don't know that do we? Sylvannas i allied with him but i don't think he had that of a direct hand in it. She did this. Yes you could put it off on him but that is the good old just following orders argument. Fact is we don't really know what he directly influenced and what was from herself.
The faction leaders escaped without a sratch... literally... no harm. Nothing. The only one who is still in captivity is Anduin... who is still wearing his armor an seems to be quite allright.

[NordWitcher]

Sylvannas has long out worn her welcome but she isn't the only lore character who has been around forever for the sake of it. I think when we are first questing in shadowlands and the Jailer drops Baine, there was an opportunity to kill Baine right there. I don't have anything against Baine at all but that would've done leaps and bound for making the Jailer feel like a really evil and bad being. Currently he seems like a pissy guy who maybe Sylvannas is going to betray, but i certainly don't feel like "oh god this guys going to ruin and rule the world if we don't do something"

I don't want characters to die for nothing, I just don't feel the overall threat looming yet. I am however enjoying most of the expansion

A lot of Blizzard fan boys are going to hate me, but Blizzard simply have terrible writers. I mean they may have had really good ones at one point when they were working on their RTS games and they took that and expanded on it with their MMO and following 2 expansions, but they've really really suffered since WTLK. Then they've had to actually create new lore, characters, etc and they've all sucked.

Even right now, none of the current characters are remotely interesting or have an aura around them. They've been pushing Sylvanas for what feels like eternity. They don't have a strong supporting cast and some of the interesting ones have been given no screen time or much focus.

[Gaidax]

Well... we don't know that do we? Sylvannas i allied with him but i don't think he had that of a direct hand in it. She did this. Yes you could put it off on him but that is the good old just following orders argument. Fact is we don't really know what he directly influenced and what was from herself.
The faction leaders escaped without a sratch... literally... no harm. Nothing. The only one who is still in captivity is Anduin... who is still wearing his armor an seems to be quite allright.

I mean, after all the reveals?

Yes, he had a very direct hand in this. His ally Muehzala appointed Sylv to be Warchief, she jumpstarted the war to feed Maw with souls. That's as direct as it gets, we just were not aware of all this shit. The only remaining mystery now is how they managed to take out Arbiter, but I imagine we will get that reveal too. Brokers know for one exactly what caused it.

Sylv was already in this in Legion, she was agent of Jailer already back then. Heck, we did see her mingle with Helya, another Jailer's agent, already in Legion, that's how far this goes.

We know. There is no "don't know" anymore - it's this. Yes, she might still have a hidden agenda and there are still questions, but the shit she did last 2 expansions, at least, she did as part of Jailer's scheme.

[Kallisto]

Anduin, sadly, IS the story.

Thanks Golden.

Not golden's choice, find another scapegoat. Anduin has been the chosen one since Wrath, maybe earlier.

[Rainsorrow]

No one cares about Baine.

speak for yourself

[Kallisto]

I mean, after all the reveals?

Yes, he had a very direct hand in this. His ally Muehzala appointed Sylv to be Warchief, she jumpstarted the war to feed Maw with souls. That's as direct as it gets, we just were not aware of all this shit. The only remaining mystery now is how they managed to take out Arbiter, but I imagine we will get that reveal too. Brokers know for one exactly what caused it.

Sylv was already in this in Legion, she was agent of Jailer already back then. Heck, we did see her mingle with Helya, another Jailer's agent, already in Legion, that's how far this goes.

We know. There is no "don't know" anymore - it's this. Yes, she might still have a hidden agenda and there are still questions, but the shit she did last 2 expansions, at least, she did as part of Jailer's scheme.

Her actions, words and inner thoughts around the time of pre-patch legion and early legion still seem to show she's trying to get away from his grasp. Using val'kir to make the forsaken have fresher bodies starting with Nathanos. Trying to keep spirits away from the afterlife at all costs. If anything the war from BFA feels like a "All plans failed I can't avoid it anymore." especially after her own thoughts where she states that there wouldn't even be a war if Varian was alive to keep Genn on a tight leesh.

[Corroc]

I agree with the title. I think we should burn another tree.