Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Felya]

People should get stimulus help until most of the population is vaccinated at the very least. Looks like that will be the case in one form or another.

Another thing most people don’t catch... Biden’s proposals are until September. This isn’t a month or two... by September, we should be mostly vaccinated.

[beanman12345]

It also expands unemployment and increases it by 400$...

I think this is something a lot of people are missing. unemployment will go from 300 a week to 700 a week. 1600$ a month more. My only wish is that this was retroactive from when it went from 600 to 300, but overall I say this is really a positive. and it's good till september, as you said, it's not another 2 1/2 month extension.

Also because some are going into a fit about the 2k checks only being 1400, remember this is just his proposal. Trump proposed a lot of shit that congress was like "no" and he signed. Hell he's using some of his last days to freeze nearly 30$ billion in programs that passed in the omnibus bill. If congress says 2k he'll sign 2k.

[Shadowferal]

Biden's targets are high and large not because he expects to nail them, but because that's where he wants everyone to work hard towards.
He wants 100mil vaccinated in his first 100 days. Will that happen? Doubt it. But if 75mil gets vaccinated within that time, then that's reason to cheer on and keep going. Sure, the right side may poo-poo the efforts, until someone derisively asks "what did Trump, and by extension, the GOP, do in his last months beyond cheering an insurrection?"

[Breccia]

Sure, the right side may poo-poo the efforts

But that's when we point to the previous 100 days and say "Sorry, you want more of this? Please, continue explaining how 'only 75 million' is somehow a tragedy, by the way in the time I said that someone literally died".

Let none of us forget: even if Biden has a slow start, he's working on a problem he did not create nor encourage. If you blow up your garage in a turkey deep frier incident, don't yell at the firemen for arriving in ten minutes instead of five. Next time read the instructions and thaw the damn bird.

[Omega10]

Biden's targets are high and large not because he expects to nail them, but because that's where he wants everyone to work hard towards.
He wants 100mil vaccinated in his first 100 days. Will that happen? Doubt it. But if 75mil gets vaccinated within that time, then that's reason to cheer on and keep going. Sure, the right side may poo-poo the efforts, until someone derisively asks "what did Trump, and by extension, the GOP, do in his last months beyond cheering an insurrection?"

Whatever Biden does, the right side absolutely WILL poo-poo the results. This has to treated as an opportunity for democrats to tie republicans to people that are forever forgiving of dangerous criminals like Trump, and forever critical of alternatives like Biden.

The reason, in my mind, that $1400 as compared to $2k is such a mistake, besides the obvious, is that "It's REPUBLICANS that are intentionally keeping you from getting $2k." has a much nicer ring than replacing $2k with $1,400. Then again, if this gets a minimum wage increase through then it's a worthwhile gambit.

Democrats absolutely have to do as much in producing good optics as they do in producing good results. It's almost worthless to do good work if they can't sell it.

[Felya]

I think this is something a lot of people are missing. unemployment will go from 300 a week to 700 a week. 1600$ a month more. My only wish is that this was retroactive from when it went from 600 to 300, but overall I say this is really a positive. and it's good till september, as you said, it's not another 2 1/2 month extension.

Also because some are going into a fit about the 2k checks only being 1400, remember this is just his proposal. Trump proposed a lot of shit that congress was like "no" and he signed. Hell he's using some of his last days to freeze nearly 30$ billion in programs that passed in the omnibus bill. If congress says 2k he'll sign 2k.

Unemployment, prior to tax deductions, can be as high as 750$ per week...

[Zan15]

Unemployment, prior to tax deductions, can be as high as 750$ per week...

you just need to move to MA!!! and have a bunch of kids.....

https://www.savingtoinvest.com/maxim...fits-by-state/

Massachusetts $823 (Individual) up to $1,234 (w/dependents)

that is before the extra.

[Omega10]

We'll see what happens on Thursday, when the news is divided between whatever Trump supporters do on Wednesday and what Biden has proposed in his first few bills.

There is a chance that every bill but one will be blocked by McConnell. For all but one bill, I think it's called the reconciliation bill, republicans can instantly block by calling a filibuster.

The first major bill would be the stimulus bill. Democrats need to affirm that they have 50 votes for it. Then republicans have two options.

Filibuster

Then democrats have a few options.

First of all they can force a full round the clock debate. Since the only other option for democrats is to fold up and do essentially nothing, I would recommend this approach. Long drawn out negotiations with McConnell over finding something he would agree to should certainly be done with democrats saying to Trump supporters "We want to give you money." in their turns to speak, while republicans say why this would be bad for the country.

Don't filibuster: Well it passes, and things move on.

If republicans filibuster this, then the assumption is that republicans will obstruct as much as possible. In this case, democrats get one shot at a bill that they can pass as long as they get all 50 Senators to vote for it.

If republicans play hard ball and succeed at preventing anything from passing, then in 2022 whatever is in that one bill is what democrats will get to brag about.

In the past, I was thinking about Public Option being there. But an increase of the minimum wage to $15 an hour, along with a generous stimulus package and generous amounts of money used for controlling the virus would probably be good enough.

His initial offer is a decent enough negotiation start. McConnell gets his one shot to tell the country what his approach will be. If he plays hard ball, democrats have to play hard ball back. For the virus and for the stimulus packages, time is of the essence. If McConnell is allowed to get negotiations to drag out for months, then the voting public will destroy democrats in 2022.

[Elegiac]

We'll see what happens on Thursday, when the news is divided between whatever Trump supporters do on Wednesday and what Biden has proposed in his first few bills.

There is a chance that every bill but one will be blocked by McConnell. For all but one bill, I think it's called the reconciliation bill, republicans can instantly block by calling a filibuster.

The first major bill would be the stimulus bill. Democrats need to affirm that they have 50 votes for it. Then republicans have two options.

Filibuster

Then democrats have a few options.

First of all they can force a full round the clock debate. Since the only other option for democrats is to fold up and do essentially nothing, I would recommend this approach. Long drawn out negotiations with McConnell over finding something he would agree to should certainly be done with democrats saying to Trump supporters "We want to give you money." in their turns to speak, while republicans say why this would be bad for the country.

Don't filibuster: Well it passes, and things move on.

If republicans filibuster this, then the assumption is that republicans will obstruct as much as possible. In this case, democrats get one shot at a bill that they can pass as long as they get all 50 Senators to vote for it.

If republicans play hard ball and succeed at preventing anything from passing, then in 2022 whatever is in that one bill is what democrats will get to brag about.

In the past, I was thinking about Public Option being there. But an increase of the minimum wage to $15 an hour, along with a generous stimulus package and generous amounts of money used for controlling the virus would probably be good enough.

His initial offer is a decent enough negotiation start. McConnell gets his one shot to tell the country what his approach will be. If he plays hard ball, democrats have to play hard ball back. For the virus and for the stimulus packages, time is of the essence. If McConnell is allowed to get negotiations to drag out for months, then the voting public will destroy democrats in 2022.

Or, novel thought: change the rules to get rid of the legislative filibuster, and tell McConnell and the rest of the GOP to get fucked and to cry more since elections have consequences and the only conservative opinion we have to give a shit about is Joe Manchin's.

The immediate retreat into cowardice despite a crisis is why nobody respects political moderates beyond their nuisance value or political utility, just fyi.

[Omega10]

Or, novel thought: change the rules to get rid of the legislative filibuster, and tell McConnell and the rest of the GOP to get fucked and to cry more since elections have consequences and the only conservative opinion we have to give a shit about is Joe Manchin's.

The immediate retreat into cowardice despite a crisis is why nobody respects political moderates beyond their nuisance value or political utility, just fyi.

I wish the democrats would coordinate a political plan to do exactly this.

One example plan would be:

Get through 2020-2022 with 1 decent reconciliation package, along with forcing republicans to have to defend their filibusters all throughout this session. Focus on bills that give benefits that are useful to Trump supporters and force republicans to explain why Trump supporters should not have these benefits.

Use these moments to keep the Senate for the 2022-2024 session, and even expand their majority.

Then eliminate the filibuster and make sweeping changes in the 2022-2024 election cycle. It will take Biden 2 years to fix the US political infrastructure to the point that something like the Public Option could successfully be implemented anyways, so this would be a good plan for moving the country forward with a decent chance of these changes turning 2024 into a blue wave.

[kasuke06]

Or, novel thought: change the rules to get rid of the legislative filibuster, and tell McConnell and the rest of the GOP to get fucked and to cry more since elections have consequences and the only conservative opinion we have to give a shit about is Joe Manchin's.

The immediate retreat into cowardice despite a crisis is why nobody respects political moderates beyond their nuisance value or political utility, just fyi.

Okay, then the next time the republicans are in power, you can eat a nice fat sack of dicks because you handed them the keys to the kingdom by killing the filibuster.

I love stupid people, they assume setting themselves on fire is a good way to get warm.
[Infraction]

[Breccia]

Filibuster

I mean, if they want to put their names on the "personally and directly stopped aid to desperate families" sure, why not.

[Omega10]

Okay, then the next time the republicans are in power, you can eat a nice fat sack of dicks because you handed them the keys to the kingdom by killing the filibuster.

I love stupid people, they assume setting themselves on fire is a good way to get warm.

There is a risk that republicans would completely destroy the country if they got both the Senate and House and Presidency at the same time later on after democrats killed the filibuster. Then again, Trump and McConnell have done a lot of damage to the US even with democrats HAVING the filibuster.

Preventing republicans from intentionally destroying America is hard work. Creating an America that is rock solid strong is absolutely necessary for democrats if they are going to stop, or at least mitigate, this. Your prediction about republicans sabotaging the country is a serious consideration for democrats to account for, and it's why killing the filibuster has to be a lot more than just forcing republicans to defend stupid and destructive policies. It has to be to create solid policies and agencies that are hard to republicans to sabotage. Or if they DO sabotage them, then it becomes the last time republicans do anything significant at all.

On a practical note, current Senate rules are that democrats get to pass one bill filibuster free bill each session, or every two years. Maintaining this rule might be sufficient to pass bills at a decent clip with one major new initiative being passed every 2 years. In the meantime, democrats can write bills that provide obvious benefits to everyday Americans and force republican Senators to defend voting these down as needed.

Thanks to Trump and McConnell, democrats have lots of ways moving forward to creating a permanent majority. Republicans have really made a mess of things for everyday Americans. I don't really care so much about what tactics democrats use to move things forward. Just so they put together a coherent plan that is internally consistent. Which means - if democrats keep the filibuster, they use their one non-filibuster bill a session to accomplish good stuff, and meanwhile use republican filibusters against them.

[Shadowferal]

Hmf... I see more an argument against a president that can issue executive orders than killing the filibuster. After all that was McConnell's little workaround when he and Trump agreed on an issue.

[kasuke06]

There is a risk that republicans would completely destroy the country if they got both the Senate and House and Presidency at the same time later on after democrats killed the filibuster. Then again, Trump and McConnell have done a lot of damage to the US even with democrats HAVING the filibuster.

Preventing republicans from intentionally destroying America is hard work. Creating an America that is rock solid strong is absolutely necessary for democrats if they are going to stop, or at least mitigate, this. Your prediction about republicans sabotaging the country is a serious consideration for democrats to account for, and it's why killing the filibuster has to be a lot more than just forcing republicans to defend stupid and destructive policies. It has to be to create solid policies and agencies that are hard to republicans to sabotage. Or if they DO sabotage them, then it becomes the last time republicans do anything significant at all.

On a practical note, current Senate rules are that democrats get to pass one bill filibuster free bill each session, or every two years. Maintaining this rule might be sufficient to pass bills at a decent clip with one major new initiative being passed every 2 years. In the meantime, democrats can write bills that provide obvious benefits to everyday Americans and force republican Senators to defend voting these down as needed.

Thanks to Trump and McConnell, democrats have lots of ways moving forward to creating a permanent majority. Republicans have really made a mess of things for everyday Americans. I don't really care so much about what tactics democrats use to move things forward. Just so they put together a coherent plan that is internally consistent. Which means - if democrats keep the filibuster, they use their one non-filibuster bill a session to accomplish good stuff, and meanwhile use republican filibusters against them.

Ah yes, "evil other tribe" is the source of every woe known to us. All must listen to your tribe, by force if necessary, for you are the sole light of goodness on an ailing world that demands you alone save it.

[Machismo]

Ah yes, "evil other tribe" is the source of every woe known to us. All must listen to your tribe, by force if necessary, for you are the sole light of goodness on an ailing world that demands you alone save it.

Man, you Trumpsters are grumpy when you miss a meal.

[gondrin]

Very Online pundits, stay golden.
Does anyone even read past the first bullet point anymore? Let alone the lede.

I carefully read President-elect Biden’s America Rescue Plan. It’s full of many things I’ve been fighting for: Hazard pay. Rent and utility assistance. An eviction moratorium. Extended and expanded unemployment. Paid leave. A $15 minimum wage. An OSHA ETS. And lots, lots more.

$1.9 trillion in total proposals
$400 billion to fighting the public health crisis, including through a national vaccination program, scaling up testing and contact tracing and providing paid sick leave
$1 trillion in direct aid to struggling families by increasing stimulus checks to $2,000
$440 billion to small-businesses, local communities and transit systems
Raising the Federal Minimum Wage to $15 is a pretty boss move in a relief bill


This whole saga has been kinda sad. The Online Left is so used to being stonewalled by the Democratic establishment that, when Democrats actually agree to their requests, they have to invent new controversies to get everyone mad about.

BAsically people channeling their conservative step-dad, see Tball trophies.

Ok, out of all of that, the $15 minimum wage is the one that shouldn't be there. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be in a spending bill, just not one for COVID relief as it has no place there. I saw a lot of people on the left complain that the Republicans put removing Sec 230 in the relief bill and they were rightfully allowed to complain as it didn't belong there. Neither does the min wage hike. It is a poison pill and nothing more. That alone will sink the bill.

[pathora44]

Ah yes, "evil other tribe" is the source of every woe known to us. All must listen to your tribe, by force if necessary, for you are the sole light of goodness on an ailing world that demands you alone save it.

So hey maybe drop the "woe is me the Democrats are so bad because they are mean to me" when the cult of Trump were the ones who literally stormed the Capitol building to try and overthrow the government to place their god king Trump.

[gondrin]

I mean, if they want to put their names on the "personally and directly stopped aid to desperate families" sure, why not.

Well, remember Ted Cruz filibustered Obamacare by reading Green Eggs and Ham.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HJu...ssociatedPress

[Breccia]

Well, remember Ted Cruz filibustered Obamacare by reading Green Eggs and Ham.

Not the top reason he's on the list. But yes.