PCGamer Ion Interview - Make Dungeon/Raids Satisfying, New Battle.net Launcher

[Glorious Leader]

Please no. I don't want to do content that I overgear and is behind me just because of maximising grind....

I don't mind the rest, but don't incentivize doing trivial stuff.

How bout just don't fucking do it if you don't want to. People like you are exactly the reason why the rest of us can't have nice shit.

- - - Updated - - -

It is the same topic entirely, because what was said is that they don't want you to do dungeons and be disappointed when you don't get loot. That does not mean they talk about increasing the amount of loot, but they want to make it more satisfying to do them.

- - - Updated - - -


Strong disagree. It is not what the game needs since it now has close to perfect design when it comes to loot.

A catch up is okay, but having the game going vendor mode is going to make the game really boring. Going into dungeons and raids knowing that you will get what you want in the end anyway is not really what the genre MMORPG needs. It breaks ANY immersion that gearing up has to offer. A PvP vendor is fine because you can't target items through doing Battlegrounds and Arenas, while for PvE you can actually do that. That boss drops that, I'll go and do that.

Imo.

You could always just not buy anything from the vendor...

[Kumorii]

How bout just don't fucking do it if you don't want to. People like you are exactly the reason why the rest of us can't have nice shit.

Or you can make it so there is a cap each week and people can do whatever content they want to to fill that cap... no need to be angry when there are solutions that should satisfy everyone or at least, most. Christ...

- - - Updated - - -

Obviously it wouldn't exclusively be available from heroic dungeons or LFR. The entire point of this thread is finding some worthwhile reward for players not getting loot from PvE content, so it'd have to drop from raid bosses and M+ as well, but for people farming Renown where they don't really need gear in heroic dungeons etc, it might serve as a nice alternative incentive.

As I mentioned to the guy above, make it so you can get it from any content you choose from and regulate it by weekly limits and I think anyone and everyone would be on board with it.

[Doffen]

You could always just not buy anything from the vendor...

Does not work that way, because what it does is that blizzard will have the vendor in mind when making content and tuning, so if I don't buy stuff from it I will be behind.

I did quit in 8.3 when vendor came, just removes any immersion gearing up has to offer making it boring.

Anyway, just my opinion. Catch up, super, have it be as good as the gear the content gives, no thanks. Badge gear from TBC worked nicely imo, back then, there were a few parts that were as good as current, but 9 of 10 items worked like catch up as it was a step down in item level of current content. But it also worked differently than now, since the ilvl of current content is always increasing in each new patch, so we don't really need additional catch up either.

So no from me, but we'll see what they come up with.

[Glorious Leader]

Or you can make it so there is a cap each week and people can do whatever content they want to to fill that cap... no need to be angry when there are solutions that should satisfy everyone or at least, most. Christ...

- - - Updated - - -



As I mentioned to the guy above, make it so you can get it from any content you choose from and regulate it by weekly limits and I think anyone and everyone would be on board with it.

I offered a solution that would satisfy everyone. Its called fucking off and not doing the shit you don't want to do. Literaly everyone would be happy if you just practiced a measure of self control

[Kumorii]

I offered a solution that would satisfy everyone. Its called fucking off and not doing the shit you don't want to do. Literaly everyone would be happy if you just practiced a measure of self control

right, so you just want to be angry for the sake of being angry, got it. You do you. Unless you want to tell me how my solution would ruin it for "everyone else" as you claimed...

[Glorious Leader]

Does not work that way, because what it does is that blizzard will have the vendor in mind when making content and tuning, so if I don't buy stuff from it I will be behind.

Anyway, just my opinion. Catch up, super, have it be as good as the gear the content gives, no thanks. Badge gear from TBC worked nicely imo, back then, there were a few parts that were as good as current, but 9 of 10 items worked like catch up as it was a step down in item level of current content. But it also worked differently than now, since the ilvl of current content is always increasing in each new patch, so we don't really need additional catch up either.

So no from me, but we'll see what they come up with.

Thats too fucking bad? Seriously. Why we can't have nice things because try hards will feel left out all the while complaining that they don't want to try. Like fuck off. Put the vendor back and either use it or don't.

- - - Updated - - -

right, so you just want to be angry for the sake of being angry, got it. You do you.

Not at all. I'd be very happy with the solution where you practice of modicum of self control instead of the developers holding your fucking hand because as (presumable) a grown ass adult you just can't help yourself. Therapy is what you need not a weekly cap.

[Doffen]

Thats too fucking bad? Seriously. Why we can't have nice things because try hards will feel left out all the while complaining that they don't want to try. Like fuck off. Put the vendor back and either use it or don't.

Cause it would make gearing up boring af, which is more important to me than getting the actual power up through gear. RNG is an integral part of the game.

And your voice is not more important than mine, so right back at you. You can go do PvP and buy gear through vendor, or upgrade your Covenant gear through the vendor. Too fucking bad.

[Glorious Leader]

Cause it would make gearing up boring af, which is more important to me than getting the actual power up through gear. RNG is an integral part of the game.

K then don't fucking use it and gear the rng way literally nothing would be stopping you from doing other than yourself.

[Doffen]

K then don't fucking use it and gear the rng way literally nothing would be stopping you from doing other than yourself.

Hopeless to discuss with someone who doesn't understand the ramifications a vendor would do to the content.

[Kumorii]

T
Not at all. I'd be very happy with the solution where you practice of modicum of self control instead of the developers holding your fucking hand because as (presumable) a grown ass adult you just can't help yourself. Therapy is what you need not a weekly cap.

Can you please explain how my solution would ruin it? Stop dodging the question in your ridiculous rage over nothing... maybe you should take your own advice and get some therapy for your rage because you don't make much sense.

[Glorious Leader]

Hopeless to discuss with someone who doesn't understand the ramifications a vendor would do to the content.

Literally nothing from a player perspective other than having choice in how to play the game. Well at least more choices even if you wanna argue some would be illusory. That's better than current limitations which are rng or bust.

- - - Updated - - -

Can you please explain how my solution would ruin it? Stop dodging the question in your ridiculous rage over nothing... maybe you should take your own advice and get some therapy for your rage because you don't make much sense.

Let's say I want to do more than the fucking cap for the week? Why should I be fucking prevented to save you from your fucking self?

[Doffen]

Literally nothing from a player perspective other than having choice in how to play the game. Well at least more choices even if you wanna argue some would be illusory.

You already have those choices in game. You can get normal Nathria and m+ 7-8 gear from vendors already, its there. We don't need additional vendors to gear up, we got two already.

And The Great Vault.

[Glorious Leader]

You already have those choices in game. You can get normal Nathria and m+ 7-8 gear from vendors already, its there. We don't need additional vendors to gear up, we got two already.

And The Great Vault.

Thats just choosing which dice I want to roll. I want actual determinism as a option.

[Kumorii]

Let's say I want to do more than the fucking cap for the week? Why should I be fucking prevented to save you from your fucking self?

Ok, lets remove the cap and let you get shit from any content you like? That way everyone can do what content they want to...
See, wasn't so hard when you stop being blinded by rage and actually fucking try to discuss why or what you want.

[morph4037]

Hard for me to believe any words from Ion based on some of the disjointed responses received during BfA

Yeah I gave up listening to the dude a few years back during an interview when he said "reincarnation was a shamans strongest defensive ability".

“Hey look the car isn’t moving, we ran out of gasoline.”

“Ok, let me change a tire”.

Pretty much.

[Glorious Leader]

Ok, lets remove the cap and let you get shit from any content you like? That way everyone can do what content they want to...
See, wasn't so hard when you stop being blinded by rage and actually fucking try to discuss why or what you want.

yea that works

[munkeyinorbit]

I'm still waiting for them to address the question: "Why even add so many legendaries?"

What is even the point of each spec having multiple choices, if we can all agree that in practice there's no choice at all? One legendary will always be better than the rest (if even a bit) and it will always be a go-to. Then they implemented a limit to 1 legendary only. To me it feels even more underwhelming and useless system than conduits for specs you'll never be playing anyway. Because legendary powers were made to be this "epic power" that you must search the Shadowlands for, and then a powerful, ancient craftsman can infuse your item with this great power. In practice, some powers are easier to find than others, some powers can be bought from covenants (literal wtf. I'm here saving your world and you're telling me I first need to complete these stupid tasks 100 times until you find me worthy enough? Such power should never be gated behind reputation). And when you're done getting the most powerful one for your spec, you don't care about the rest. At all. You forget about Runecarver. Soul Ash, and with it Torghast, becomes utterly useless.

Yes, maybe they are going to increase the legendary limit later. Who cares, I'm not playing in the future, I'm playing now. Instead of cluttering this system with multiple useless choices, they should have made just one legendary for each spec or class and grant it in some epic questline.

It's really hard to believe there were many people, with long game dev experience, who thought it was a good idea.

Please refer to Legion. Almost every spec had Boss output but some of the other legendaries had utility which were very valuable. See mage tower. BiS was not constant for almost all specs. Be happy that you don't "need" 4 or 5 legendaries. The other legendaries are almost certain to come into their own.

[Moradim]

When PVP is a better way to gear than PVE it's time to admit your system is broken.

PVP: do matches, earn points, buy gear when you get enough currency

PVE: do dungeons, pray to RNG gods you get a drop, and the drop you want specifically

[munkeyinorbit]

Can’t speak for raids, but M+ drop rates really need “something”.

I don’t know what, I’m not a dev, but in the long run running tons of dungeons without any loot feels lsimply bad. Did 5 atm this week and still nothing.

I’m having fun nonetheless because I like healing but 90% of my guildmates are complaining and I can’t tell them they are wrong.

M+ is still more profitable than raiding. M+ rates should actually be nerfed. I don't know how they would do that but M+ is an infinite loot source with a guaranteed loot that exceeds the actual level you completed. Raiding needs to up the loot to 4 per 20 and also have your vault be the difficulty above to even match M+.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, aside from the balancing issues this is the biggest for me. I get they want gear to be more meaningful and scarce overall but especially for those trying to do 4 to 10 level 14+ dungeons for the vault, putting that much time/effort into doing those and not seeing a single piece of gear AND not having some sort of fail-safe system in place to at least make it worthwhile is ridiculous.

Even outside of the extremes for top end mythic raiders, if I and a group of friends all need gear and decide to appropriate levels of m+ we could go dozens of clears without hardly any upgrades because the likelihood of us not even being able to trade loot that isn't as good or barely an upgrade to help out.

If this is happening then you aren't doing appropriate level of M+. The appropriate level of M+ is the level where you see upgrades. The chance of you not getting an upgrade after 24 runs is close to 0 percent. If you are already full 213 then you won't see any upgrades at all except the vault.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, maybe you got lucky in HC, but that isn't the norm at all. Many raiders view PvP gearing as more effective than getting their gear from raids right now, since you get one Conquest piece every two weeks, which you can target exactly as you like. And with sufficient rank you can immediatly upgrade that piece up to mythic.
Sure, if it's easier for you to run HC, because you are struggling in PvP without outgearing your opponent then your point stands. But to be able to target mythic level item rewards is pretty huge.
Ontop of that you can get mythic level gear from the great vault each week, based on your rank.

PvE players don't get much more loot than you. Just look at the amount of complaints right now; often they get one HC piece a week and the loot from the vault.

So 1 piece per week with a vault item vs 1 piece per 2 weeks and a vault item. You son of a bitch. I'm in. It takes twice as long to PvP but I'm convinced. If you're a raider then PvP is not the optimum path. Here's why.

At the beginning of the season you have 0 conquest pieces and zero raid pieces. The skill of the player determine which level his PvP and pve gear and there is a high correlation between the two. The better players get higher rankings AND raid harder content. So player skill is irrelevant to the gear they get. A bad player won't be getting H or M raid gear and won't be getting more than about 200 PvP gear.

For the end result you raid for gear and you PvP for points. You don't buy any gear from PvP until halfway through gearing because you don't want to buy gear that will drop in raids. Considering everything is an upgrade in raiding at beginning only a stupid person would gear up in PvP.

You guys are welcome and I have just proved that PvP gearing is not the optimum route for gearing.

[Ihavewaffles]

I only want to remove all the call of duty crap, i don't want that SHIT on my blizzard app.