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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I honestly hadn't noticed just how many buttons each class actually has because in most cases for me, half of them are flavor only, or so rarely used as to be forgotten. Some classes have more flavor abilities than others too.

    Honest question, of those 32 buttons, how many do you regularly use, or use enough for them to actually warrant a keybind versus one off to the side that you just click when you need it or want it?

    In FFXIV, the number of abilities I use regularly enough to need to be on an easy to access keybind far exceed that in WoW. That's not saying I don't use them, but not regularly enough to require easy access.
    In M+/raiding I count 25 of them being necessary to be keybound IMO. This includes all offensive, defensive, mobility, and most utility skills. In raiding it's probably a little less as kiting and CC, while still necessary is less common IMO.

  2. #522
    I just took a look at my Feral druid and here is my breakdown of my keybound abilities (e.g I do not include random flavor abilities, which I click) and how often I use things. An asterisk will indicate an ability I will use in nearly every encounter.


    DPS (13)
    Shred* - Main rotation
    Rake* - Main rotation
    Swipe* - AoE rotation
    Thrash* - Main rotation (empowers bites)
    Ferocious Bite* - Main rotation
    Rip* - Main rotation
    Primal Wrath - AoE Rotation
    Wrath - Rarely, only when I cannot reach an enemy
    Moonfire - Rarely, only when I cannot reach an enemy
    Starsurge - Rarely, only when I cannot reach an enemy
    Starfire - Rarely, only when I cannot reach an enemy
    Sunfire - Rarely, only when I cannot reach an enemy

    Cooldowns (4)
    Convoke the Spirits* - used on cooldown
    Berserk* - used on cooldown
    Tiger's Lust* - used on cooldown
    Berserking* - used on cooldown

    Defensive (2)
    Survival Instincts - often, when needed
    Barkskin - often, when needed

    Utility (20)
    Wild Charge* - often, gap closer
    Dash - often, gap closer
    Stampeding Roar - often, group-wide gap closer
    Entangling Roots - when crowd control needed
    Hibernate - rarely in PvE, a little bit more often in PvP
    Cyclone - when crowd control needed, very often in PvP
    Mighty Bash - often
    Maim - rarely in PvE, often in PvP
    Skull Bash - often
    Typhoon - often
    Prowl* - often
    Soothe - rarely, very situational, requires specific enemies
    Soulshape - often, gap closer
    Trinket 1* - often
    Trinket 2* - often
    Bear Form - used defensively, somewhat often
    Moonkin Form - current Feral uses this with convoke in certain situations, maybe 1-2 uses per encounter
    Travel Form - often
    Flap - situational, saves from fall damage
    Growl - situational, but not often

    Healing (3)
    Regrowth* - very often (Feral gets these for free so I always toss one out when I get one)
    Remove Corruption - situational
    Rebirth - situational

    That is 42 abilities that I absolutely need keybinds for. Druid is an interesting class...

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malix Farwin View Post



    The "problem" with summoner is something all jobs have to deal with. adding the "summoner mains" in response to someone who has main's summoner since it released in 2.0 is the most pointless thing to even do. The people who are complaining about Summoner are actually non summoner mains actually. The only complaint Summoner had got addressed very early on and it was having to weave so many OGCDs.

    second Yoshi-P never actually said any of the things you said and you are just taking what he said COMPLETELY out of context.

    He regrets tying summoner and scholar to ACN, thats about it.

    added note: They were actually very happy going into shadow bringers with Summoner initial changes and said that when they were previewing it.
    You say that as if I don't have information to pull from. I didn't pull that out of my ass like you seem to be. Atleast in regards to non-quoted statements. I've spoken with several Summoner Mains, and those who have higher knowledge on the job as well. The rotation is garbage, and ALOT of people want to see it changed. You screaming otherwise doesn't make it so, it just means that you like it in it's current itteration, and that's fine, I'm not going to call you out on that, because I've liked things when they were in a popular 'bad state' for a while as well. I just didn't close my eyes and drown out the noises of others stating what was wrong with it. I just simply said "Yeah, I see where you're coming from, and I hope it changes for the better and we both get enjoyment out of the fix."

    Divorcing Summoner and Scholar from each other would help to solve the problems that both jobs have as a result of them being tied to Arcanist, this much is obvious. They had done it to save dev time, and it worked in the moment, but as mentioned, they regret that choice in the long run.

    There's a reason for that regret that you're opting to ignore, because it doesn't serve your arguement.

    Awesome Sig/Avatar by the lovely Rivellana

  4. #524
    Does FF14 actually acknowledge 'double weaving' like in game?

    The problem for ff14 isn't that 2.5s gcd is too slow. The problem for ff14 is their solution to 2.5s gcd is the ogcd.
    Last edited by gobio; 2021-01-15 at 03:53 AM.

  5. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by gobio View Post
    Does FF14 actually acknowledge 'double weaving' like in game?
    I don't think so.

  6. #526
    you really went and kicked the FFXIV hornets nest with this one huh

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by perkocet View Post
    you really went and kicked the FFXIV hornets nest with this one huh
    Final Fantasy XIV is an objectively mediocre MMORPG.

    I bear no ill will for Yoshi-P and his incredibly talented team. They put in an incredible amount of hard work to produce a polished product - that product, however, is a polished turd.

    The burden of accountability falls on the directionless and greedy imps at Square Enix. Things as simple as an expanded item storage and outsourcing a team to create a better glamour system is unlikely due to budget constraints imposed on the developer team by the corrupt leadership in Square Enix.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the developer team wanted to DELAY the release of Viera and Hrothgar due to their incomplete statuses but were pressured by the corporate executives to 'wrap-it-up' and push it out anyways.

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by mario710 View Post
    Final Fantasy XIV is an objectively mediocre MMORPG.
    Why do people always mistake opinion for fact?

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    When people say stuff like that I always wonder what they define as a "good" story.
    I think one of the issues is that a lot of people use "story" to mean a bunch of wildly different things. I think XIV has an incredible story that I personally really enjoyed. I think that XIV's storytelling is some of the worst in the series... and Final Fantasy is my absolute favorite game series. But when you say you hated a portion of the game story-wise or an element's atrocious delivery, the community comes in to tear you apart and talk about how terrible WoW's lore is or something.

    I'll elaborate. For example, I really enjoyed the story of Hien's journey, the character of Gosetsu, and the worldbuilding lore of the Azim Steppe. But those broad strokes were constantly bogged down by things like warping back to huts to verbally deliver exposition detailing the exact events you JUST took part in yourself. Throughout Stormblood's leveling experience I counted no less than 5 different character stories that were the same story, and that story was basically Rudolph the red nose reindeer - there is so much padding and repitition. [SPOILER] Gosetsu holds up a building for 10 minutes after getting shot and everyone stands around crying about him the entire time instead of ESCAPING... and 2 minutes later Hien is like "He's probably fine, check the lake", invalidating the entire nonsensical experience you just suffered through. [SPOILER] You fight Zenos and can't land a single scratch on him, then the next time you fight him he absorbs a god and still loses ???? What happened in between those two fights? My arbitrary RPG leveling?

    That's how I came to the conclusion that XIV's story is like watching the anime when you really should just read the manga. Everything is drug out and loses its impact when the writing and dialogue is super ham-fisted and laden with exposition, things are drug out way too long, and I've figured out the arcs and mysteries about 3 zones/patches before the characters of the world do.

    Alternatively, WoW for example is more comic book than anime. Each expansion is the big summer crossover where a bunch of different wacky elements are brought together for a single crisis, you're left looking for a reading order guide to find out what happened when, setting up set pieces and fights is more important than consistent characters or narrative, and a few years down the line they'll probably retcon a few things to make room for some brand new thing to be tossed into the universe.

  10. #530
    to build on the above. FFXIV also has thousands of tiny moments off the side that may not have to do with the story but are a result of the various story NPC unique character traits. They remain true to their character throughout the game and expansions, and also have character development. Even the WoL themselves are shown to go through development, both good and bad (they're showing signs of increasingly extreme PTSD).

    But also like i said, there are thousands of small moments which give them depth. They remain themselves whether the MC is around or not, you are not the center of the universe.

    One example is Alisaie offhandedly complaining about her brother's inability to stfu about his firewood collecting skills. She brings it up when she has to collect slimy clams when he isn't around. (she later keeps throwing shade at the absent Alphinaud regarding his inability to swim, as any sibling tends to).

    She's refering to a conversation between the twins we never actually see, but the conversation was about a situation we were involved in... which occured an entire expansion ages ago when he camped with us and a dragoon he starts to idealize as a big brother. He was really proud of collecting firewood for him. So ofcourse the first thing he did (which we dont see) when coming back to his sister from a mission involving making peace with a faction of dragons and meeting their absolute MASSIVE leader... is brag about collecting firewood for his new mentor...

    All of this expressed through a single offhand comment a few words in length. Stuff is this is peppered all around FFXIV. It adds depth to the story and makes the characters more alive, instead of plot tools to push your awesomeness forward.

  11. #531
    The story of FF14 is good, but they seem to always step back and tainted their own creation post expansion (in their 'filler' arc).

    Ardbert was great, he was used, he was useless. At the end, he is useful. He is at peace. We should move on.
    NO! He is naruto'ed back as a walking corpse.

    Emet-Selch and to the lesser extend Elidibus was impressive antagonist for many because how well developed they are. One of them tells you he cannot best you one on one and must use projection to follow you around, the other tells you he must use deception and trickery to win. Which leads to well polished lines like "remember us" that seems to affect many.
    NO! Fandaniel pops up out of no where. "remember us" he said LOL, you couldn't forget us ascians, not with me around!

    EDIT : not to mention the stormblood power creep couple "you are just a little girl", "you are so beautiful". yikes.
    Last edited by gobio; 2021-01-19 at 08:20 AM.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by gobio View Post
    Ardbert was great, he was used, he was useless. At the end, he is useful. He is at peace. We should move on.
    NO! He is naruto'ed back as a walking corpse.
    I think it was a perfect fit to use him as part of our soul in the First tbh.
    Since he has always been our mirror image since HW.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by xmirrors View Post
    I just took a look at my Feral druid and here is my breakdown of my keybound abilities (e.g I do not include random flavor abilities, which I click) and how often I use things. An asterisk will indicate an ability I will use in nearly every encounter.


    DPS (13)
    Shred* - Main rotation
    Rake* - Main rotation
    Swipe* - AoE rotation
    Thrash* - Main rotation (empowers bites)
    Ferocious Bite* - Main rotation
    Rip* - Main rotation
    Primal Wrath - AoE Rotation
    Wrath - Rarely, only when I cannot reach an enemy
    Moonfire - Rarely, only when I cannot reach an enemy
    Starsurge - Rarely, only when I cannot reach an enemy
    Starfire - Rarely, only when I cannot reach an enemy
    Sunfire - Rarely, only when I cannot reach an enemy

    Cooldowns (4)
    Convoke the Spirits* - used on cooldown
    Berserk* - used on cooldown
    Tiger's Lust* - used on cooldown
    Berserking* - used on cooldown

    Defensive (2)
    Survival Instincts - often, when needed
    Barkskin - often, when needed

    Utility (20)
    Wild Charge* - often, gap closer
    Dash - often, gap closer
    Stampeding Roar - often, group-wide gap closer
    Entangling Roots - when crowd control needed
    Hibernate - rarely in PvE, a little bit more often in PvP
    Cyclone - when crowd control needed, very often in PvP
    Mighty Bash - often
    Maim - rarely in PvE, often in PvP
    Skull Bash - often
    Typhoon - often
    Prowl* - often
    Soothe - rarely, very situational, requires specific enemies
    Soulshape - often, gap closer
    Trinket 1* - often
    Trinket 2* - often
    Bear Form - used defensively, somewhat often
    Moonkin Form - current Feral uses this with convoke in certain situations, maybe 1-2 uses per encounter
    Travel Form - often
    Flap - situational, saves from fall damage
    Growl - situational, but not often

    Healing (3)
    Regrowth* - very often (Feral gets these for free so I always toss one out when I get one)
    Remove Corruption - situational
    Rebirth - situational

    That is 42 abilities that I absolutely need keybinds for. Druid is an interesting class...
    Sure but you don't need different keyboards for all of them. As auto switching hotbars between forms are a thing

  14. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthope View Post
    Why do people always mistake opinion for fact?
    Not a damn clue. You'd think being one of the most successful mmorpgs on the market currently would, quite literally, nullify such a position. Yet there's are still so many who toss the word "objectively" around as though they know how to use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  15. #535
    One thing I've always found interesting about FF14 is that the community is far more forgiving for the cash shop compared to WoW. The one in FF14 is many multitudes more egregious than what is in WoW, but I rarely see people complain about it.

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathan View Post
    Sure but you don't need different keyboards for all of them. As auto switching hotbars between forms are a thing
    That only removes 6 from the above list, so 36 keybinds then.

  17. #537
    Talking about the FFXIV story in a wider general fashion holds little weight. Maybe other MMO's can be judged like that since they dont bother but the details included into the FFXIV storytelling create more than just the sum of their parts.

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by Kongnic11 View Post
    if you want to raid, you need to be a pianist and able to press 30 buttons like a melody. That is how complicated the rotations are!
    Could this game get anymore perfect? new player just about to try the game out, wow has been leaving a lot to be desired expansion on expansion getting worse and worse (simpler and simpler)

    I guess its all about player perspective, do you want to master an art and become known as van gogh? or do you want to draw a stickman and label yourself an artist.

    If simple rotation is what you need then wow is right up your street.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Not a damn clue. You'd think being one of the most successful mmorpgs on the market currently would, quite literally, nullify such a position. Yet there's are still so many who toss the word "objectively" around as though they know how to use it.
    It's also consistently growing in userbase alongside ESO, so that should also tell that guy he's objectively wrong.

    Want to know which MMO is consistently decreasing in userbase? Begins with W I think, three words.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    Alternatively, WoW for example is more comic book than anime. Each expansion is the big summer crossover where a bunch of different wacky elements are brought together for a single crisis, you're left looking for a reading order guide to find out what happened when, setting up set pieces and fights is more important than consistent characters or narrative, and a few years down the line they'll probably retcon a few things to make room for some brand new thing to be tossed into the universe.
    I've never thought about it like that, and never had it put so well. Especially the reading order to find out what happened when part.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

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