Thorgast balance

[Bloodyleech]

Yes - of course some class/specs have it easier, and for others it is impossible to solo.

A mage isn't a tank so it isn't going to be able to do the same stuff as a DH might be able to do.

Torghast should have been designed as a solo activity - we already have enough group stuff to do.

Went in this week - and my first run I had a beast tank from the anima power - the run was trivial
Second run I didn't get offered a beast tank - could barely get past the first floor.

Both were Difficulty 4.

Stop spreading wrong informations.
It's not impossible for ANY spec. I already linked you videos for your own spec, so just stop this.
If you are not able to clear Layer 4 of normal Torghast (obviously not Twisting Corridors, because you can't get doggos there), it's a freakin' you problem, nothing else.
I'd honestly like to see how you play, because you definetely can't be playing your arcane mage to his full potential. With all this free gear (free 197 armor+cloak, 187er weapon) a L4 normal Torghast run is completely trivial.
You probably spam Arcane Barrage or Arcane Missiles instead of using Arcane Blast or Arance Explosion for stacks - or aren't always using abilities - or moving away from enemies and getting hit into the back.

I know people that played with me in Vanilla and they STILL backpaddle when enemies are in melee range to them. It's wroooong - they hit you and you do no dmg.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you running around naked? Layer 1 mobs are weaker than regular outdoor enemies.

The worst part is that I already linked him solo L8 (normal and TC) Torghast runs, which he completely ignored. He just wants to spread wrong informations, that's all.

[chiddie]

I just played on my warlock. I got 0 epic traits and wiped on the boss(i even tryed to clear it nicely). Other times I burst down the boss with 150-200K DPS. It really depends on the RNG.

You are talking about corridors? Because with 200k dps you basically two/three shots every regular Torghast boss even in layer 8.

[Saubon]

With my main (hunter, ilvl 200) I have zero chance over floor 5....

If you struggle with basic torghast (not twisting corridors) try BM. I was farming layer 8 since I was 180ish ilvl. BM is one of the easiest specs to farm basic torghast.

[munkeyinorbit]

Stop spreading wrong informations.
It's not impossible for ANY spec. I already linked you videos for your own spec, so just stop this.
If you are not able to clear Layer 4 of normal Torghast (obviously not Twisting Corridors, because you can't get doggos there), it's a freakin' you problem, nothing else.
I'd honestly like to see how you play, because you definetely can't be playing your arcane mage to his full potential. With all this free gear (free 197 armor+cloak, 187er weapon) a L4 normal Torghast run is completely trivial.
You probably spam Arcane Barrage or Arcane Missiles instead of using Arcane Blast or Arance Explosion for stacks - or aren't always using abilities - or moving away from enemies and getting hit into the back.

I know people that played with me in Vanilla and they STILL backpaddle when enemies are in melee range to them. It's wroooong - they hit you and you do no dmg.

- - - Updated - - -



The worst part is that I already linked him solo L8 (normal and TC) Torghast runs, which he completely ignored. He just wants to spread wrong informations, that's all.

He's just a bad player. He's been complaining about difficulty of these solo instances since 8.3. First it was impossible to get higher than rank 4 cloak in 8.3. He said he was ilvl 460 at the time. Now he's been banging on for weeks about how torgahst is too hard for mages. He won't get the hint. He is one of the worst players out there but he refuses to learn.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

I'm just really wondering what would happen if I try it on other classes. See how unbalanced those are..

[Blackmist]

I heard Druid was OP so I tried that. Wasn't feeling it.

And then I went Night Fae. Convoke is ludicrous in there. Like nearly power you pick up buffs it in some way. It's short lived, and if the boss isn't dead or nearly dead by the time it's done then you have the same issues every other class does (with all the interrupt ability of Hooks from Police Academy), but it should take most of the health from any floor boss in one go.

[Bloodyleech]

He's just a bad player. He's been complaining about difficulty of these solo instances since 8.3. First it was impossible to get higher than rank 4 cloak in 8.3. He said he was ilvl 460 at the time. Now he's been banging on for weeks about how torgahst is too hard for mages. He won't get the hint. He is one of the worst players out there but he refuses to learn.

What, he really said you can't get higher cloak than 4 as mage? Maaaaan, I wish I'd have seen this! I did fullclears with R8 or R9 cloak with my mage with around 420 or 430.

OT: Normal Torghast depends a bit on ilvl, Twisting Corridors does not depend on ilvl just a bit, it's all about the traits. With all this free gear you get via Campaign (197 armor, 187 weap) not even a L8 normal run should be giving big problems.

[Rhelyo]

I play assa rogue ( i know not the most viable of rogue specs),managed to finish TC completely with a friend.I got all the hp% powers i could find along with shadowstep 400% increased finisher dmg to all targets where you land.All 7 floors was easy peasy i tanked the bosses while also doing 600k crit finisher.I had like 200k-300k hp.
Hp%,400% finisher when shadowstep used,all the envenom % dmg i could get,crit chance/crit dmg.
Then came layer 8.Got all the same powers managed to get up to floor 12.Had around 180k hp.Had the map which spawned the ghost mobs like death shades,devils and such.Those freaking things 1 shoted me everytime.They have that passive which on the 3rd attack they deal 200% extra dmg.Me and my friend lost 6 lifes there so we had to quit after 2 hrs of progressing up to there.
On another day we decided to give it another shot and managed to get the ghosts floors at the beginning.We still lost 1-2 lifes there they still hit like a truck but atleast wasnt 1 shotted. That day we cleared layer 8.
So yeah if you get the ghosts at the end floors its a rip,atleast for me it was. Maps/mobs change every 6 floors.

[Bloodyleech]

I heard Druid was OP so I tried that. Wasn't feeling it.

And then I went Night Fae. Convoke is ludicrous in there. Like nearly power you pick up buffs it in some way. It's short lived, and if the boss isn't dead or nearly dead by the time it's done then you have the same issues every other class does (with all the interrupt ability of Hooks from Police Academy), but it should take most of the health from any floor boss in one go.

Yeah, drood CAN be op, if you get multiple stealth% (5 sec after stealth +25% dmg each), 50% more dmg when target has 3 dots active, 50% more dmg but reduced movement, multiple 50% more dmg in convoke, but outside of convoke drood is imo kinda weak. I always stealthed the later floors after Layer 3 from boss to boss because it would take to much time to kill trash. Talking about Twisting Corridors!

[Puri]

Arcane mage is impossible to do ... even Layer 1 ... I just don't have enough health to tank the bosses or packs when they don't split.

I can dps even the biggest guys down in under 30 seconds, but they can dps me down in under 10.

That's the point - the balance is off kilter.

???
I literally did TC up to layer 8 as arcane mage (ilvl 197), mage has some of the least variance on anima powers, almost all provide a significant defense or attack value.

And while you have to be careful at the start in the higher layers and have to wait for example 20 seconds to turn your sheep into a bomb at the higher levels you can literally just jump into groups and AE everything down while still bursting bosses.
Claiming you have issues in "layer 1" is just ridiculous.

But yes, the balance in Thorgast is completely off. Comparing hunters and warlocks for example (as both are pet classes that usually have it easier) there are insane multiplicative anima powers for warlocks - you can have a 1M life pet that alone does 30k dps with auto attacks in the end - while 50% of anima powers for the hunter are somehow disengage related and not a single one give the pet better defensive capabilites.

As mistweaver monk with several corrosive acid stacks (it's common!) and unfiltered bone broth you literally can do 500k dps single target damage and theoretically millions of dps if you could pull enogh mobs without them dying first (while still healing). As resto druid fully anima powered to the teeth you will do a tenth of that amount and have to decide if you want to do damage or heal.

But generally it is tuned that you can do it in any spec, but yes without any doubt, the balance is completely off.

[Yorimar]

Torghast should have been designed as a solo activity - we already have enough group stuff to do.

that was their whole selling point for torghast. you can do it with a group or solo. blizzard just doesnt know what 'solo' means.

[Bloodyleech]

I play assa rogue ( i know not the most viable of rogue specs),managed to finish TC completely with a friend.I got all the hp% powers i could find along with shadowstep 400% increased finisher dmg to all targets where you land.All 7 floors was easy peasy i tanked the bosses while also doing 600k crit finisher.I had like 200k-300k hp.
Hp%,400% finisher when shadowstep used,all the envenom % dmg i could get,crit chance/crit dmg.
Then came layer 8.Got all the same powers managed to get up to floor 12.Had around 180k hp.Had the map which spawned the ghost mobs like death shades,devils and such.Those freaking things 1 shoted me everytime.They have that passive which on the 3rd attack they deal 200% extra dmg.Me and my friend lost 6 lifes there so we had to quit after 2 hrs of progressing up to there.
On another day we decided to give it another shot and managed to get the ghosts floors at the beginning.We still lost 1-2 lifes there they still hit like a truck but atleast wasnt 1 shotted. That day we cleared layer 8.
So yeah if you get the ghosts at the end floors its a rip,atleast for me it was. Maps/mobs change every 6 floors.

Sad fact: you can get the same type at least TWICE in a TC run. Had fire 1-6 and 13-18.

[Annonnnnn]

Yep, this stuff is super hard and needs nerfing.

So what's up with the Thorgast balance?

I've been main-ing a ret paladin since the beginning of vanilla now and am by no means bad at it, but when I play Thorgast on my Paladin and my Destro Lock (which I think I play 'okay'), I notice so much difference in terms of difficulty.

On my Paladin, I do have to pay attention on the later levels and pop some cooldown-gymnastics to survive.
On my Warlock, it doesn't matter at all. My voidwalker tanks everything and takes virtually no damage. I can burn down everything with basic attacks and only have to worry about fears/heals.

Have other people noticed that some classes have it easier/harder?

Or is it because on my first character, things are supposed to be harder?

[Rhelyo]

Sad fact: you can get the same type at least TWICE in a TC run. Had fire 1-6 and 13-18.

I was lucky then.Oh geez.

[Strawberry]

try prot paladin... it's awesome in torghast,. also your warlock has a pet tank... it's not the same doing torghast with a tank than than with no tank.

- - - Updated - - -

Hunters have problems in torghast (twisting corridors) due to their pet dying instantly by final bosses, so no, hunters are not great at torghast, Vengeance dh are way strongest in torghast than warriors or hunters.

Don't know about DHs but I don't see how anything could be much stronger than my arms warrior in Twisting Corridors.

100% uptime on 100% parry and execute critting for 1mil damage while being usable on any hp and knocking the boss down with every hit.
I absolutely massacred layer 8. It was laughable.

[Annonnnnn]

Don't know about DHs but I don't see how anything could be much stronger than my arms warrior in Twisting Corridors.

100% uptime on 100% parry and execute critting for 1mil damage while being usable on any hp and knocking the boss down with every hit.
I absolutely massacred layer 8. It was laughable.

Yep, this stuff is super hard and needs nerfing.

Arms stronger than this?

[Phaelia]

I was lucky then.Oh geez.

@Bloodyleech if you ever get the fire floors more than once, use the ravenous anima cell on an elemental mob. It negates any fire damage done by 60%. Makes it absolutely trivial

[Rajej]

Yeah, really balanced this Torghast. Druid Tank here, died two times on TC 4/17.

Why I died? Easy explained: I pulled to many mobs.

You may think "Geez, that's nothing special."

Yeah, but I didn't die because of the damage the mobs did to me. I died, because the many dots, proccs and other effects caused a disconnect. Took me three tries to find the reason (on the first disconnect I didn't die, but all the mobs did).

After 5-6 floors worth of powerups and as long as I don't pull more than 2-3 groups at a time I don't have to do anything but activate barkskin and loot afterwards. No moving out of effects, no dmg skills necessary, no other survival cooldowns - nothing.

[Bloodyleech]

@Bloodyleech if you ever get the fire floors more than once, use the ravenous anima cell on an elemental mob. It negates any fire damage done by 60%. Makes it absolutely trivial

Yeah, did it - just wanted to inform that this is possible. Was absolutely necessary even in the early floors - immediately used the cell on floor 4, otherwise it would've been absolutely deadly.

[Phaelia]

Yeah, did it - just wanted to inform that this is possible. Was absolutely necessary even in the early floors - immediately used the cell on floor 4, otherwise it would've been absolutely deadly.

Yeah and the higher you go in torghast TC the worse the multiplier is. It’s bonkers