Deplatform Parler good or bad?

[starzer]

In America, we have the Second Amendment, so that government can’t force us, to have people we don’t want on our property.

Like blacks and gays and irish. Oh wait, no that's just a load of meaningless shit you just came out with.

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Turns out nobody wants to host talks of insurrection, violent uprising, terrorism, and the like. Even social media sites designed to be "havens" for these right wing snowflakes have all eventually been shut down because they failed to police their users posts, who were making intricate plans to bomb government buildings and assassinate Nancy Pelosi, among other things.

Your government sponsors, instigates and incites insurrection, violent uprising and unambiguous terrorism. This is not some big secret. It will not be censured for doing so. I think you people are just sore all that stuff came around and bit you on the arse.

Clearly it is completely unworkable for twitter's double-standard to be applied in a logically coherent matter, especially as the US becomes increasingly less and ultimately irrelevant to the internet.

[Shalcker]

And? Parler should've better negotiated terms of their contract, or they shouldn't have breached the terms of their contract.

Amazon breached terms of the contract by not giving 30 day notice of termination before pulling the plug.

And because of that Parler has decent chance of winning their case.

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Well then, Parler must have had some shitty corporate lawyers if that's all it takes for AWS to drop them.

Or maybe it's Amazon thinking even breaching contract is worth the cost.

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You are making a lot of fucking excuses. If they can't moderate their platform, they shouldn't have a platform.

I'm all for closing Facebook and Twitter, sure. They are net loss for humanity.

[Felya]

Like blacks and gays and irish. Oh wait, no that's just a load of meaningless shit you just came out with.

Technically, US platformed the “blacks” by force... they were banned from all functions of the platform, but they were forced to create the account anyway.

[gondrin]

Amazon breached terms of the contract by not giving 30 day notice of termination before pulling the plug.

And because of that Parler has decent chance of winning their case.

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Or maybe it's Amazon thinking even breaching contract is worth the cost.

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I'm all for closing Facebook and Twitter, sure. They are net loss for humanity.

However, if Parler engages in any way with anything illegal(like hosting anything illegal and not taking it down), then they could have been in breach of contract which Amazon could use to nullify it outright.

[ati87]

They cannot be held responsible though because they are protected by 230, and Parler was actually enforcing their own rules.

Amazon simply claimed they are unsatisfied with speed and scope.

Section 230 is not a get out of jail free card, calling for murder is still illegal.

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Amazon breached terms of the contract by not giving 30 day notice of termination before pulling the plug.

And because of that Parler has decent chance of winning their case.

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Or maybe it's Amazon thinking even breaching contract is worth the cost.

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I'm all for closing Facebook and Twitter, sure. They are net loss for humanity.

Amazon warned Parler months ahead

There is no legal basis in AWS’s customer agreements or
otherwise to compel AWS to host content of this nature. AWS notified Parler repeatedly that its
content violated the parties’ agreement, requested removal, and reviewed Parler’s plan to address
the problem, only to determine that Parler was both unwilling and unable to do so. AWS
suspended Parler’s account as a last resort to prevent further access to such content, including
plans for violence to disrupt the impending Presidential transition.

So do you think Amazon is lying to the courts?

[Vash The Stampede]

These people already isolate themselves into echo chambers. What does exposing them to left wing perspective do? All they end up doing is trolling and sending death threats. There is no hope for these people.

Humans are rather simply to indoctrinate in that all you gotta do is repeat the same thing over and over and eventually they'll believe it. That's why echo-chambers work so well in that they amplify certain opinions while blocking out others. This is also how we get anti-vax and flat earthers, through isolated pockets that get louder over time. By exposing themselves to open discussion we can prove them wrong with repeated facts.

[Endus]

I compared it to the old FR to better illustrate the reach and influence of Twitter and the other social medias.
I am well aware that they are private enterprises, and therefore have their own rules in addition to the laws.
Where the comparison to the bar, store or theater however falls apart IMO is the reach and influence.

The reach and influence aren't relevant. That's not why the Forum became what it was; it became that because the Roman Republic established it as such, as public space for the use of all, regardless of what they said.

You're also backing your argument up a step, without admitting it; by talking about "reach and influence", you necessarily shift away from what people are entitled to, as it should be in their rights, and now you're talking about a want. These bad actors want reach and influence, but they can't achieve that by themselves, and don't want to play by the rules of those who'd offer them a platform. Well, that's their problem to solve, not an abuse of their rights by said platform.

I really don't care what they want. I care what they're entitled to because it's their right. Same reason I don't care if someone gets fired for sleeping with the boss' wife. I care if they get fired because they're black. The latter is about people's rights, the former isn't.

If we shift to "wants" as the standard, then you're essentially making an argument that extends to providing them enough support to achieve reach and influence, and wallowing in the depths of social media obscurity is not sufficient either. It's a moving goalpost that's never fully realized. It's not a standard that can be used.

If you really want to compare it use a private enterprise of comparable size, like say, not getting kicked out of a shop but getting banned from the entire chain. EG parler gets kicked out of one McDonalds and now are banned from all McDs.
In the case of parler, and to stay with your store-comparison, Burger King heard of their behaviour and banned them as well from all their shops. As did Wendys, and Bank of America and many more.

Tell me, how does that compare to 'any store, bar, or theater'?

You're misrepresenting what happened.

They had contractual agreements with companies. They failed to live up to the terms of those contracts. Those contracts were cancelled as a result, as the contracts allowed for. They're now known to refuse to abide by contractual terms, and are having to wear that in future negotiations, which works against them. That's just bearing the consequences for their own actions.

Or how does it address the underlying issues, like poor oversight in general by facebook and twitter (racism, xenophobia and other -isms are still creeping around like https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir?lang=de) ,
why people believe that right-wing shit in the first place,

It doesn't, but this is an attempt to move goalposts. This isn't an either/or situation in the first place.

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Amazon breached terms of the contract by not giving 30 day notice of termination before pulling the plug.

And because of that Parler has decent chance of winning their case.

They gave weeks of notice, and a means to have that suspension negated proactively, which Parler made no effort to live up to.

Amazon's also stated this is a suspension of services, not a full termination, which means they'd likely be open to hosting Parler again should Parler actually comply and clean up their act. Which Parler continues to refuse to do.

[Shalcker]

However, if Parler engages in any way with anything illegal(like hosting anything illegal and not taking it down), then they could have been in breach of contract which Amazon could use to nullify it outright.

Termination for any contractual reason requires 30 day notice.
Parler was taking it down.
Nothing Amazon produced so far was straight illegal - and legality has to be decided by law enforcement.

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Section 230 is not a get out of jail free card, calling for murder is still illegal.

Which law specifically applies?

So do you think Amazon is lying to the courts?

As this "suspension" is functionally indistinguishable from termination, i'm reasonably sure Parler will prove that not giving 30 day notice was breach of contract successfully.

[gondrin]

Termination for any contractual reason requires 30 day notice.
Parler was taking it down.
Nothing Amazon produced so far was straight illegal - and legality has to be decided by law enforcement.

As soon as you can show proof that any contractual reason including illegal reasons requires said notice, you are just making shit up. Stop listening to Giuliani, rots the brain and all. Worst then most drugs.

[Shalcker]

They gave weeks of notice, and a means to have that suspension negated proactively, which Parler made no effort to live up to.

There was one day of notice, and contract stipulates 30 days of notice anyway.

And Parler did made an effort.

Amazon's also stated this is a suspension of services, not a full termination, which means they'd likely be open to hosting Parler again should Parler actually comply and clean up their act. Which Parler continues to refuse to do.

Again, Parler never refused, and did made an effort.
And Amazon indicated that they are not open to hosting Parler again - which makes it a termination, not suspension.

[Machismo]

I'm rather enjoying watching the Russian Alliance on here getting caught lying time and time again about this... all while supporting the murder of politicians and journalists.

So, they pushed lies, got caught pushing those lies... and have now moved goalposts about 75 times in order to avoid their initial lies.

It's like Trump is doing their typing for them... or is it vice versa?

[Endus]

There was one day of notice, and contract stipulates 30 days of notice anyway.

That's just a lie. They were notified weeks in advance, more than the required 30 days.

And Parler did made an effort.

Also a lie.

Again, Parler never refused, and did made an effort.
And Amazon indicated that they are not open to hosting Parler again - which makes it a termination, not suspension.

Given that they've explicitly stated it was a suspension, not a termination, that makes this a third lie.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...zon-parler-aws

I don't care how you want to define the terms, the only definitions that matter are AWS', in their contract with Parler.

[Forogil]

That's just a lie. They were notified weeks in advance, more than the required 30 days.

Technically he then made two lies, as AWS do not have to give 30 days notice.

If you violate the use-clause it suffices with two days notification and in some cases zero days to remove contents and stop service; section 1.4 of https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/

[segara82]

The reach and influence aren't relevant. That's not why the Forum became what it was; it became that because the Roman Republic established it as such, as public space for the use of all, regardless of what they said.

The reach and influence part of the discussion is irrelevant to YOU because they currently do something you like: kicking the Nazis out.
We all well know that if they kicked the DNC out you would be screaming bloody murder, not giving a hoot about the whole private enterprise stick.

And if Amazon, Facebook and co really gave a fig about the adherence to the terms on their platforms they'd have to kick out far more groups and people. They still have the Ayatollah on, who routinely spews anti-semitic messages, and hundreds others. Why are they still on?

It is a knee-jerk reaction to their lobbied politicians shitting their pants because angry people were so fed up they decided to take up arms. I can't feel sorry for those since they rather took the companies money than taking care of their constituents.


You know one of the best methods to fight nationalism, right-wingers and this whole mess? Make sure people have roofs over their heads, food in their bellies, jobs that they can find meaning in, a decent education ... and not the choice between a shitty job and starvation.
Several studies have shown that when people struggle to survive their IQ goes down by ~13 points. Combine that with stagnating pays for about 40 years, 3 recessions, a system that thrives on the two-party-rivalry, and a completely messed up spending habit .. you can only get fed up, desperate people who look for a way out.
So who is the real evil?
The desperate people?
Or those that let the country go down that road?

[Endus]

The reach and influence part of the discussion is irrelevant to YOU because they currently do something you like: kicking the Nazis out.
We all well know that if they kicked the DNC out you would be screaming bloody murder, not giving a hoot about the whole private enterprise stick.

If the DNC were breaking their contractual obligations?

Nope. No screams about "injustice", since it would be just.

You're projecting, dude. It isn't an argument.

And if Amazon, Facebook and co really gave a fig about the adherence to the terms on their platforms they'd have to kick out far more groups and people. They still have the Ayatollah on, who routinely spews anti-semitic messages, and hundreds others. Why are they still on?

This is whataboutism. You can't make your case on its merits, so you're resorting to "what about X?"

I'm not saying they're necessarily consistent, but that consistency is not relevant to anything to do with Parler specifically.

You know one of the best methods to fight nationalism, right-wingers and this whole mess? Make sure people have roofs over their heads, food in their bellies, jobs that they can find meaning in, a decent education ... and not the choice between a shitty job and starvation.
Several studies have shown that when people struggle to survive their IQ goes down by ~13 points. Combine that with stagnating pays for about 40 years, 3 recessions, a system that thrives on the two-party-rivalry, and a completely messed up spending habit .. you can only get fed up, desperate people who look for a way out.
So who is the real evil?
The desperate people?
Or those that let the country go down that road?

You realize you're talking to a liberal market socialist who's openly hostile to the entire capitalist concept of private ownership, and fully supports strong social support systems like a universal basic income, right?

Why would you think I'm supportive of any of that stuff? You are, again, trying to shift the argument, because you can't make your point on its own merits.

[Machismo]

The reach and influence part of the discussion is irrelevant to YOU because they currently do something you like: kicking the Nazis out.
We all well know that if they kicked the DNC out you would be screaming bloody murder, not giving a hoot about the whole private enterprise stick.

And if Amazon, Facebook and co really gave a fig about the adherence to the terms on their platforms they'd have to kick out far more groups and people. They still have the Ayatollah on, who routinely spews anti-semitic messages, and hundreds others. Why are they still on?

It is a knee-jerk reaction to their lobbied politicians shitting their pants because angry people were so fed up they decided to take up arms. I can't feel sorry for those since they rather took the companies money than taking care of their constituents.


You know one of the best methods to fight nationalism, right-wingers and this whole mess? Make sure people have roofs over their heads, food in their bellies, jobs that they can find meaning in, a decent education ... and not the choice between a shitty job and starvation.
Several studies have shown that when people struggle to survive their IQ goes down by ~13 points. Combine that with stagnating pays for about 40 years, 3 recessions, a system that thrives on the two-party-rivalry, and a completely messed up spending habit .. you can only get fed up, desperate people who look for a way out.
So who is the real evil?
The desperate people?
Or those that let the country go down that road?

So, you have your solution:

Form your own site, and have unlimited reach and influence... and host all the Nazis you like.

Yes, Nazis are the real evil, it's weird you keep defending them.

[Moralgy]

Wasn't this place allowing people to openly call for violence? Saw stuff about organizing more riots and saying very specifically who posters were aiming to murder. Idk about other people, but a website that allows that kinda stuff should, ya know, be taken down.

[gondrin]

Wasn't this place allowing people to openly call for violence? Saw stuff about organizing more riots and saying very specifically who posters were aiming to murder. Idk about other people, but a website that allows that kinda stuff should, ya know, be taken down.

Ok, if you can show proof of this where the post itself was allowed to stay up and the user not getting banned, you have a point. Otherwise, this site is known to take down posts or shut down threads quickly if they talk about inciting violence.

[Felya]

Ok, if you can show proof of this where the post itself was allowed to stay up and the user not getting banned, you have a point. Otherwise, this site is known to take down posts or shut down threads quickly if they talk about inciting violence.

They mean Parlor... my initial reaction was the same, but they mean parlor.

[gondrin]

They mean Parlor... my initial reaction was the same, but they mean parlor.

Now I feel dumb and ashamed. Sorry about that. Need to go to sleep but can't sleep at the moment so judgement is failing.