I think wow would be better without a weekly chest.

[LanToaster]

No, i´m not witty. You clearly say: "Rewards above your Current Diffuculty".

Please explain me, how you get rewards above the Difficulty of content you completed.
I didnt get any Mythic Loot from my Vault, because I did not do Mythic. Nor did I get any better gear than the M+ dungeons I ran.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Holy exaggeration and hyperbole Batman! 0.001%? where did you pull that number from? This is not the way to form a solid argument.

Yes, it was an exaggeration. Thanks for picking up on that.

I don't really think the let loot be loot crowd wanted low drop rates... blizzard just seems determined to stretch out game play by tying rewards to a timer.

I agree with this.... to an extent.

The stretch out the game part.

[slime]

I have only gotten any upgrade in all content run for about 3 weeks now in the weekly vault. Every piece that drops in a +key or whatever is 99% DE'd. So, if after 3 weeks I would have received exactly 0 upgrades, running keys doing lfr - play everyday... I would've quit. I don't ask for much, but like 1 upgrade a week or 2 works.

- - - Updated - - -

No, i´m not witty. You clearly say: "Rewards above your Current Diffuculty".

Please explain me, how you get rewards above the Difficulty of content you completed.
I didnt get any Mythic Loot from my Vault, because I did not do Mythic. Nor did I get any better gear than the M+ dungeons I ran.

He might mean because the weekly rewards are a higher ilvl than the things you complete. Like a +2 item drop in a run is 187, but in the weekly vault your reward will be 203.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I think wow would be worse whitout a weekly chest.

If we're talking "removing the weekly chest without putting in any system to replace it", yes, I'd agree. I think the weekly chest is a poorly designed system that just provides you additional chances to be frustrated by RNG.

I think PvP currently has the best system of gearing in place at the moment in Shadowlands. You've got a clear gear progression path, with some RNG introduced by the Great Vault gear, while the rest of your gear is dictated entirely by whether or not you're doing the content.

You can fail the content and still reliably progress toward upgrades via honor and conquest. You pick and choose which pieces you're going to get and upgrade first. If I enjoy PvP more I think I'd continue playing SL for PvP, because that reward structure doesn't provide me with negative results. There is always a positive result at the end of the week, no matter what, because of Conquest points that can be used to purchase missing pieces and upgrade existing pieces.

[Aggrophobic]

Don't really care if the weekly chest is there or not. Don't think it's fin though.
Don't like lottery stuff such as that but what is annoying is that so much focus is on that boring crap and not drops in the actual raids and dungeons.

The chest in Legion was fine and so was the rewards except for the way we got legendaries.

[arkanon]

The target Reward for a +2 dungeon is still set to Ilvl 200, its not "Above the Difficulty".

No, ilvl 200 is rewarded for completing a +7. The target loot for a +2 is ilvl 187. This isnt difficult.

[Lolites]

I agree with this.... to an extent.

The stretch out the game part.

they dont want people to be done with their sub based game after week... in other news, water is wet

jokes aside, without tf/wf or similar systems with the same loot chances and item levels we had in previous expansions some people would be decked in bis gear on first week... hell some on first day of mythic season... ofc they dont want that, and tbh, do WE want that? i personaly dont...

[chiddie]

Vault is ok for people that play a lot. It’s surely an improvement because you have a little more control on the loot.

For people who don’t play much, BfA system was way better (at least M+ side).

I am in the second category and I’m gearing up way slower than in BfA, even if I’m doing more M+ than before.

[LanToaster]

He might mean because the weekly rewards are a higher ilvl than the things you complete. Like a +2 item drop in a run is 187, but in the weekly vault your reward will be 203.

Yea, but the intended reward for that activity is still 200 (A +2 gives ilvl 200 in the vault). That is not "Above your Difficulty", its exactly whats intended.

The argument the OP is raising, is plain idiotic.

He says:
If you only manage Heroic Raids, you get Ilvl 213 loot. Which in return makes it easier to complete Heroic Content, and prepares you for Mythic raiding. ("Stealth Nerfs" is what he calls that)
Same is Applied to Mythic+, I dont actually know the different Reward levels by heart.
But: You Complete +10 dungeons, you get loot which makes it easier to complete +10 dungeons, and prepares you better for +15 dungeons. (Though I think Heroic Raiding would be aroun +8 or 9 in comparison).

The whole argument about his "Stealth Nerfs" makes no sense whatsoever. Because you can do the Dungeons in less gear than it Rewards, and its intended to be done with less gear than it rewards. To make sure you have progress and can tackle harder and more Challenging Content.
Individual Skill factors in, in how efficient your gear works in your Favor, but the Design is the same since forever:

You go Content, get better gear, and then go harder content and get even better gear. And if you reach the Apex (Mythic Raid/+15/Whatever PVP Rank max is), everything you do makes it just a bit easier.

If you remove the Weekly Chest out of the Equation, that would not change the Argument the OP makes.
You still get better Equipment than what required to clear the Content.

No, ilvl 200 is rewarded for completing a +7. The target loot for a +2 is ilvl 187. This isnt difficult.

You are right, Its not difficult:
Blizzard says you get Ilvl 200, for completion of a +2 Dungeon. Thats the Intendet target for a +2.

You are not Blizzard, so what you think is the appropriate Reward for an Activity is of no relevance.

[Lolites]

For people who don’t play much, BfA system was way better (at least M+ side).

how exactly?
you can run one M+ now and get the same results from vault you had in BFA weekly chest with the same work...

and if you mean lower drop rates, that have fuck all to do with vault, thats bcs of removal of TF/WF/corruption/similar systems, so kind of diferent issue...

[Seranthor]

I understand the point of the chest is to act as a weekly nerf by letting players recieve rewards past their current difficulty level. I just think this knee jerk reaction blizzard has to soft nerfing content isn't really as sustainable as letting people simply progress.

It just seems the complete "x" a week isn't really a positive direction to take the game in.

Dont want the chest... dont do the thing that gives you the chest... problem solved.

[Krakan]

how exactly?
you can run one M+ now and get the same results from vault you had in BFA weekly chest with the same work...

and if you mean lower drop rates, that have fuck all to do with vault, thats bcs of removal of TF/WF/corruption/similar systems, so kind of diferent issue...

I do feel the low drops exasperate the problem. It wouldn't feel like I'm waiting for upgrades or that I have a chore list if loot just dropped more often.

I don't think loot has ever been as restricted in terms of drops pre warforged included.

[Thrasgar]

Without the weekly chest 'nerf', certain players would never see lots of content at the varying levels.

this. I play wow just to chill out at the end of the day and the vault has me running m+ for once.

[Argorwal]

I do feel the low drops exasperate the problem. It wouldn't feel like I'm waiting for upgrades or that I have a chore list if loot just dropped more often.

I don't think loot has ever been as restricted in terms of drops pre warforged included.

/logs into classic and kills Naxx bosses that drop 2 items for 40 people...

[arkanon]

You are right, Its not difficult:
Blizzard says you get Ilvl 200, for completion of a +2 Dungeon. Thats the Intendet target for a +2.

You are not Blizzard, so what you think is the appropriate Reward for an Activity is of no relevance.

No, the reward for completing a +2 is a chance at a 187 item off the final boss, and you can have as many chances as that as you like, keys allowing. The VAULT rewards an item equivalent to completing a +7, although you did not complete a +7, once per week.

[Azerate]

No.

We need some sort of participation reward / bad luck protection type thing.

Loot chances were already lowered to all hells because of idiots asking to make loot more "meeeaningful". The great vault is one of the few consistent ways of getting good gear.

No, i´m not witty. You clearly say: "Rewards above your Current Diffuculty".

Please explain me, how you get rewards above the Difficulty of content you completed.
I didnt get any Mythic Loot from my Vault, because I did not do Mythic. Nor did I get any better gear than the M+ dungeons I ran.

I'm not sure if you're really not getting what everyone is telling you, or purposely trying to pretend you don't.

Yes, the M+ reward in the chest (legion/bfa) and great vault (now) is higher than what you normally get for the m+ difficulty. This is a fact and you can check that at any moment on wowhead or any wow related site. I don't think this is a wrong thing, but it is a fact.

[Eazy]

That's the only reason I am doing M+. So I think it's kinda prolongating the time played without the content drought.

[keldarepewpew]

Vault is ok for people that play a lot. It’s surely an improvement because you have a little more control on the loot.

For people who don’t play much, BfA system was way better (at least M+ side).

I am in the second category and I’m gearing up way slower than in BfA, even if I’m doing more M+ than before.

The vault is strictly superior then the bfa one what you are saying is just factually wrong. If you did 1 mythic plus in bfa you would get 1 item from that difficulty this is still the case.

[LanToaster]

Yes, the M+ reward in the chest (legion/bfa) and great vault (now) is higher than what you normally get for the m+ difficulty. This is a fact and you can check that at any moment on wowhead or any wow related site. I don't think this is a wrong thing, but it is a fact.

It does, and its intended.

Doesnt change: You dont get better loot than the loot set as appropriate for the content you completed.
This might´ve changed since Legion, but thats another topic in altogether.

However, thats not the point, read my Previous Posting:
Your Argument of receiving better loot from the Weekly Chest, and the "SoftNerf" how you describe it. Are not very related, and removing the weekly chest doesnt change a thing with it.

You have always, and will always be rewarded with a Higher ItemLevel, than you need for the type of Content you are doing.

You enter a Normal Raid, and its expected to be around 184-190. You Get Ilvl 200. You Enter a Heroic Raid, you are expected to be 190-200 at minimum, and you receive 213 and so on.

The same goes for Mythic+ Dungeons. With the possibility to receive as much as (while unlikely) as many Items as you can run dungeons a week, its only normal that the end of Dungeon rewards got reduced, while the Weekly Chest remains as the Intended Loot for the content.

This is clearly intended as you get the same Ilvl from the vault which drops in the Raid. And the Weekly M+ item also Caps at 15 with the Mythic Raid Ilvl.

So no: You dont get a Higher Itemlevel then Intended/appropriate for the Content you run.
And that it gets progressivly Easier with more Gear, and the more content you do is also normal.

No.
We need some sort of participation reward / bad luck protection type thing.

Loot chances were already lowered to all hells because of idiots asking to make loot more "meeeaningful". The great vault is one of the few consistent ways of getting good gear.

The Great Vault IS the Participation reward, or bad luck Protection.
You have a consistent Progress, you get at least one Item/Week, with the appropriate Ilvl of the Content you are doing.

Where is the problem with that?

[Zig Zug]

I understand the point of the chest is to act as a weekly nerf by letting players recieve rewards past their current difficulty level. I just think this knee jerk reaction blizzard has to soft nerfing content isn't really as sustainable as letting people simply progress.

It just seems the complete "x" a week isn't really a positive direction to take the game in.

It seems you're confusing a solution, for a problem.

What would be a more constructive direction to take the game in, that the current design isn't?

Why did you use the word nerf, versus reward?

What do you think is difficult?

This opinion seems very limited in consideration, and fails to account for the greater WoW gearing system.