I think wow would be better without a weekly chest.

[Segus1992]

Until you reach a certain level, every +5+ ilvl piece is a HUGE upgrade regardless the secondary stats or it being a BiS.

We passed from being submerged by loot, even not optimal but sorta of upgrades, to 1 piece per week, without even have the 100% chance that it’s a BiS.

What you're saying makes no sense at all. Even if I try to guess what you're trying to say, all I can gather is that you're complaining about the amount of loot?

[munkeyinorbit]

The only purpose of the great vault is to keep people subbed. You can view that as a good thing or a bad thing. I think it would be better served as a way to fill in unlucky streaks in drops rather than being the only real source of viable gearing other than pvp.

- - - Updated - - -



Hate to break it to you but raiding is not difficult. It's a test of group coordination and time investment, not individual skill. The best skilled players in the game are elite pvpers and the top M+ pushers.

And most of.them raid mythic as well. You know full well that almost all players, even with the best raider leader in the world telling them what do, would fail in mythic every single time. I am not arguing about what the best players do or where they do it. I am saying that the gear you get for completing a m+ or killing a raid boss reflects the skill where you are at. If you can clear normal as a productive member, you can do 7s. That's the difficulty equivalence. The dungeoneers might not like it but that's the truth.

[Unzd]

Short answer: No.
But spild be lovely if the gear dropping om 11-15 represented the difficulty

[Merlunie]

I do feel that this current iteration of the Great Vault is far better than the weekly chest in BfA. It's still just one item, but now you have a variety of things you can do for the equipment. It gives an extra way to fill out some of those missing slots, especially for players with guilds that tend to force trades on any loot that can be traded.

Why specifically is it a problem that people might get an extra piece of loot at the end of the week that they've done the work to earn?

Leave that guild. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Literally thousands of guilds. Such a terrible take.

ML need to come back.

[Razion]

Recently the chest to me makes activities that I would rather do for their own inherent rewards seem like only stepping stones to getting what I want. It's more satisfactory when the content just gives you what you're after. If it's meant to be bad-luck protection, maybe it should be just more built into looting in general, or if it's just supposed to be a participation award, maybe that should be better included in the rewards in general. It's also not really satisfying as a later-reward, as it isn't "now". If you're already logged in and just completed a thing, you might do something else for another shot at rewards. But if you just logged in to just get the reward you may not be compelled to do anything else (you can't spam log ins for rewards) is how I look at it, as you could consider the reward for logging in rather than completing any kind of activity. If logging in becomes the reward rather than doing things, it also creates a kind of bad relationship of expectancy for not doing anything (so why do anything), and also when activities themselves aren't as rewarding immediately it creates a situation where the events aren't lucrative which means they themselves feel worse or it isn't as special when you do get rewarded, because you can get rewarded for nothing. Suddenly putting forth effort to do things seems pointless and arbitrary when just doing nothing may as well be doing the same thing.

In Legion and BFA the chest felt like a fun bonus. In SL it feels like rewarding me for not playing the game.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Bad luck protection and well if you kill 5 bosses and just get anima, something is VERY wrong. it doesn't really feel good if that happens to someone. While your experience may vary but for those with shit luck its not cool.

[huth]

I don't think anyone from said crowd expected loot frequency to stay the same as it was but for every piece to be ideal, unless they were deluding themselves.

Don't underestimate the ability of humans to delude themselves or fail to think of the negative consequences of their actions.

[AngerFork]

No one is forcing those entitled players to stay in a guild that puts the entire raid team over that specific entitled player.

Leave that guild. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Literally thousands of guilds. Such a terrible take.

ML need to come back.

Putting these together as they speak to a common misnomer for guild loot, which is "If you don't like the loot system, just leave and find another guild. How hard can it be?" While that sounds nice in theory, it doesn't tend to work as well in practice. Not every guild is going to match your availability, class need, spec need, progression, etc. Having had to search for guilds for various reasons over the last few years, I can tell you that it isn't as easy as just pulling a guild out of a hat. Plus, an increasing number of guilds before ML went away were going to that system, much like an increasing number of guilds are requiring RC Loot Council these days. I'm not saying remove RC Loot Council, but I am saying that having an extra chance at loot with the Vault that is only yours can be a nice substitute if the items you earned for the week were taken away to feed other guildies.

It is more the type of system, rather than a system existing to supplement drops that is troubling. I think the badge system of WotLK is a much healthier alternative to something like the Great Vault, because it provided more player agency. You would plan your upgrades out ahead of time and could easily hit your weekly cap with 2-3 hours of gameplay per week. There wasn't any RNG to badge gear, which is what I think is one of the most frustrating aspects of the Great Vault.

You have to do a lot of content to get extra chances at getting a piece that is an upgrade. I'm okay with time-gated content, I abhor time-sink content. The badge/point systems used to fill out gear sets in previous expansions were not time-sinks, they required minimal effort and you had complete agency over what gear you got.

I think WoW has gone in a bad direction as a consequence of the weekly M+ chest they introduced, and they've continued on that path instead of changing tracks.

I don't disagree here, badges would be a ton better. The old badge system was nice and allowed everything you did to be a way to eventually earn your gear. You could target certain pieces and it gave something to constantly work towards as expansions went on. The only real complaint I had there was how you could get gear you never really earned over time, but really that wasn't a big deal. If they were to throw out the vault in favor of badges, I'd be very much in favor of that. But throwing it out with no replacement as the OP recommends is IMO a bad idea.

[Zyky]

Especially since the "let loot be loot crowd" got Blizzard's ear and loot drops are at 0.001% now.

Don't blame players for Blizzard doing a poor optimization change. Blizzard fucked up the implementation of the removal of Titanforging, not the players who wanted it removed. Then they didn't listen to alpha/beta feedback regarding how shit loot drops were. Now we're in a situation where Blizzard is trying to say "we could have done better" again.

[SirCowdog]

You don't log in once a week for raiding, blizzard has to come up with something else on a weekly logout to entice you so their stupid FOMO business model doesn't lose money.

[Biomega]

Weekly chest is fine if it's a supplement to your gear.

Now it's one of the CENTERPIECES of gear.

[Zig Zug]

Leave that guild. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Literally thousands of guilds. Such a terrible take.

ML need to come back.

Because comprehension of a concept and practicing a concept are two different things.

Guilds are more than means.

"ML need to come back." (No, it doesn't)

Why trade one tyrant for another?

[HansOlo]

I understand the point of the chest is to act as a weekly nerf by letting players recieve rewards past their current difficulty level. I just think this knee jerk reaction blizzard has to soft nerfing content isn't really as sustainable as letting people simply progress.

It just seems the complete "x" a week isn't really a positive direction to take the game in.

Weekly vault is the best thing that happended to the game.

Also - it makes complete sense that they would nerf the loot dropped from raids. More loot from the raid, would make weekly vault obsolete. What's the point if you already have the entire loot table in your bag?

If you think about it, you get less loot - but you get MORE relevant loot. I rather pick what I want than keep getting the same bracers each week.

[LordTakeo]

I think WoW is better off with it.


Especially since the "let loot be loot crowd" got Blizzard's ear and loot drops are at 0.001% now. Way to make people start missing Warforging/Titanforging to the point of saying "well, I was at least getting something" and the incentive was there to go back to these dungeons/raids in hopes to get your item at an upgraded level.


Now... you just don't get anything.

Pushing raid drops by +1 would fix alot of things already, in combo with the chest system we have atm.
I kinda enjoy PvP even now, but you shouldn't *have* to do pvp to progress your gear at all outside the chest. It's really weird not getting a single upgrade from the raid 2 weeks in a row.

[Merlunie]

Because comprehension of a concept and practicing a concept are two different things.

Guilds are more than means.

"ML need to come back." (No, it doesn't)

Why trade one tyrant for another?

If you can’t find a good guild it is because you are bad.

- - - Updated - - -

Putting these together as they speak to a common misnomer for guild loot, which is "If you don't like the loot system, just leave and find another guild. How hard can it be?" While that sounds nice in theory, it doesn't tend to work as well in practice. Not every guild is going to match your availability, class need, spec need, progression, etc. Having had to search for guilds for various reasons over the last few years, I can tell you that it isn't as easy as just pulling a guild out of a hat. Plus, an increasing number of guilds before ML went away were going to that system, much like an increasing number of guilds are requiring RC Loot Council these days. I'm not saying remove RC Loot Council, but I am saying that having an extra chance at loot with the Vault that is only yours can be a nice substitute if the items you earned for the week were taken away to feed other guildies.


I don't disagree here, badges would be a ton better. The old badge system was nice and allowed everything you did to be a way to eventually earn your gear. You could target certain pieces and it gave something to constantly work towards as expansions went on. The only real complaint I had there was how you could get gear you never really earned over time, but really that wasn't a big deal. If they were to throw out the vault in favor of badges, I'd be very much in favor of that. But throwing it out with no replacement as the OP recommends is IMO a bad idea.

Anyone who says it’s hard to find a guild is writing fanfic.

[Stardrift]

I never understood why it rewarded M+ trash with item levels way above normal raid gear. I mean I just did a +6 and now I'm getting a 210 ilvl piece of gear this Tuesday? Like, why? That +6 was ridiculously easy.

[Swnem]

I think you got a couple of things mixed up there.

Yes, the weekly chest is a soft nerf, but that is very much intentional.

What you are defending is a return to vanilla and TBC style progression where there is no catch up mechanism except badge gear, which i suppose you don't want.
While i would not be totally opposed to it, the current soft nerfing as you put it serves as means for players to not hit a brick wall in progression and i think that is important to have.

Players that feel they hit a brick no longer feel motivated to log on. It is therefore better for the game to have a "soft nerf" system.

[Malvient]

nah it wouldn't

[Stardrift]

I do feel that this current iteration of the Great Vault is far better than the weekly chest in BfA. It's still just one item, but now you have a variety of things you can do for the equipment. It gives an extra way to fill out some of those missing slots, especially for players with guilds that tend to force trades on any loot that can be traded.

Why specifically is it a problem that people might get an extra piece of loot at the end of the week that they've done the work to earn?

It is much, much better this way. But the problem is, you don't put in the appropriate work for the ridiculously high item level rewards. Seriously, a +6 should get you an ilvl 195 vs a 210 lol

[Gaidax]

Vault is the only bright spot in the sea of darkness and sadness that is PvE gearing in Shadowlands.