Easy spec for PVP?

[majinzeni]

Not to hurt your ego, but again sub rogue and arms are 3 button damage speccs who as I said can you support or stun abilitys which need a bit practice. But you basically can people by spamming 1 2 3 so they are good for beginner

What makes sub rogue hard to play relative to the other melee in the game is the list of things that have to be done correctly in order for the spec to succeed. Sub rogue can only operate during short windows throughout a match, and during those short windows everyone on the enemy arena team has to be stopped in order for there to be any threat of danger from the rogue team. Not only does the healer have to be CCed but the 3rd arena partner has to be stopped as well. Imagine a sub rogue team fighting ret/warrior/disc. If the rogue team is trying to kill the ret, the healer has to be CCed so the ret isn't receiving any healing, the ret has to be in stuns the whole time so he can't use any defensives/utility to help himself live (there can't be any gaps between the stuns whatsoever while he's being killed or he should be able to live), and if the warrior isn't CCed then he can intervene, war banner, stormbolt, intimidating shout, disarm and save the ret paladin. Coordinating CC on both teammates and enough damage on the ret paladin in short windows is what makes playing a sub rogue difficult. If there is any amount of disruption during this window of trying to go for a kill, it usually means the rogue team won't get a kill. If you pair this with the fact that almost every other arena comp in the game (without sub rogues) has high amounts of damage at all times, and doesn't have to wait for their window of being able to go offensive and forcing at least defensives from the enemy you should see why sub rogues aren't "easy". A standard melee cleave can shred through a rogues health bar in a second or two without the rogue using defensives or actively mitigating incoming damage. Rogues can die very quickly, especially in the current arena meta with how high damage is right now. WoW arena isn't a game about being mechanically gifted or superior like MOBA's or fighting games are. WoW arena is about executing strategies together as a team and being able to do so successfully. The coordination required for rogue teams to succeed, contrary to what a lot of people like to believe, is much more difficult than most other arena comps. I've healed a lot of different comps throughout playing WoW, and can say in my experience that playing with rogues always requires more effort focusing on the small things to make sure the match goes well for us.

[Draylock]

Actually incredible how completely misguided people are on this topic. Difficulty isn't having 1000 icons in your spellbook. Difficulty isn't having a response to every possible situation (mage, rogue, paladin, disc, hunter), it's not having an easy counter to something that's supposed to counter you in the first place (disc, warrior, mm hunter, mage), it's not being able to just macro all your shit into a single keybind and go brrrrrrrrrrrr (sub rogue, mm hunter). Difficulty is about only being able to do something in very particular setups while playing the slowest spec in the game (Frost DK), or only having a short window of opportunity to kill your opponents with little to no defensive options (enh sham), or actually having to know your class/spec to be effective with it (non-affli locks).

Try rogue (all the tools, easy one-shot keybind possibility, complete control of the flow of the fight), disc priest (you can be literally braindead and still survive everything), mm hunter (same as rogue, except ranged). Then switch to mage (extremely overpowered toolkit, but requires some control), ret pal (insane damage, full imunity defensive, but can actually be kited), Unholy DK (arguably weaker to kiting than ret, but a completely autoplaying spec that doesn't reqiuire any user attention whatsoever), balance druid (too dependant on convoke, but very fun when convoke works), WW Monk (this one is only easy do to how overtuned its damage is right now). And then try playing a warlock (needs very good knowledge of what to do and when, yields great results), Frost DK (try killing anything with a working brain without a proper Chill Streak setup, while also being the slowest spec in the game), DH (as braindead as they are, getting stripped of their pre-SL godhood made them very weak in comparison to other melees, you'll really have to juggle all the tools you have to be effective with it).

[Nuba]

Ret Paladins arent easy by any scretch
you have to provide multiple types of support for your teammates, including but not limited to sanctuary, wog and freedom
for some reason low level players (like 1400 and below) usually think ret is very easy due to "self healing" (since they never see a ret heal their allies) or since the fact they see "immune" when they attack into bubble.

That said, I think the easiest melees to get into PvP should be the ones with less support and more "dumb damage" (aka you'll be doing "fine" if all you do is dps and chase) like frost DK, fury warrior and havoc DH, but even those you can clearly see the difference between a bad and a good player

[Draylock]

Ret Paladins arent easy by any scretch
you have to provide multiple types of support for your teammates, including but not limited to sanctuary, wog and freedom
for some reason low level players (like 1400 and below) usually think ret is very easy due to "self healing" (since they never see a ret heal their allies) or since the fact they see "immune" when they attack into bubble.

That said, I think the easiest melees to get into PvP should be the ones with less support and more "dumb damage" (aka you'll be doing "fine" if all you do is dps and chase) like frost DK, fury warrior and havoc DH, but even those you can clearly see the difference between a bad and a good player

for some reason low level players (like 1400 and below) usually think Frost DK is very easy due to "only chasing and dumb damage" (since they never see a FDK peel or AMZ for their allies) or since the fact they see big damage when people straight up eat Chill Streak without ever trying to get out of it

[pinkz]

I PVP'd a little in Legion, but really haven't done a lot of PVP since Cataclysm or MoP.

Looking for some opinions on whats the top 3 easiest specs to play right now. Just looking to do non-rated, casual PVP. Melee preferred.

paladin, one of the top streamer classes played, EVERY spec is solid in casual pug random BG, epic BGs and arenas. i hear those streamers whine to no end on lack of mobility. if you have dueled, BGd. etc and face them it is far from true. they may not top damage charts like a aff lock, ele, UHDK, hunter...they don't have to. damage is deceptive in PVP, you may have to do 200k damage to dent or kill a paladin, they only have to do 30-40K to kill you.

i pug BG alot, have BM/MM hunt, fire mage, boomkin (fae), SP. when i see classes that i have issues with, i armory them.

on the boomkin with convoke, is easily interrupted and negated. many classes can survive the whole cycle with ease. it also spreads attacks to others in a area. it's very situational and positioning heavy. don't let the click bait youtuber's fool you. or 1 vs 1 examples. as of now i'm seriously questioning my choice of covenant.seeing alot of kyrian bal druids in BGs doing seriously insane. i went to https://www.arenamate.net/?region=&r...pec_filter=102 where you can click names to get data on player, then click name again to get wowarmory, which shows cov player is using.

if you mostly BG i recommend using the RBG filter for class you are thinking about

[Nuba]

for some reason low level players (like 1400 and below) usually think Frost DK is very easy due to "only chasing and dumb damage" (since they never see a FDK peel or AMZ for their allies) or since the fact they see big damage when people straight up eat Chill Streak without ever trying to get out of it

no, its easy because it has a very simple dps rotation and can get away with not playing properly. Like I said it is very easy to discern a good from a bad player (like a 1400 vs a 2800 DK), but its not as punishing to play wrong as other melee.

You can play Havoc, Frost DK or Fury Warrior and work on improving much quicker though, since their rotations are simple and extremelly hard to fuck up, their utility are easy to understand and because you have to care less about "doing your damage right" you can focus on the rest of the game, that is why we recommend those for starters, the same way we recommend holy paladin for healers and never discipline.

Your assessment on rogues and discs (by far the highest skill gap in the game between a bad and a good player in the game for melee and healers respectively) is just wrong btw, I take it you're taking your experience from random BGs and not arena?

[MakePvPGreatAgain]

Personal attacks and snide remarks end here. Discuss the topic, not each other.

When someone complains on forums and never wants to hear what anyone has to say. Insulting them in the process, and getting banned multiple times cause of his behaviour, that also gives completely wrong information to people that are asking for help and pretend like he is competent (absolutely not) in what he is talking, that person shouldn't be allowed to post here.

I understand that personal attacks and snide remarks are not tolerated here, but what can you expect as a moderator when you have someone so toxic in your forums ? Is there a way to write a complain or report his posts so we can have him out of this pvp community here?

[Draylock]

no, its easy because it has a very simple dps rotation and can get away with not playing properly. Like I said it is very easy to discern a good from a bad player (like a 1400 vs a 2800 DK), but its not as punishing to play wrong as other melee.

Your assessment on rogues and discs (by far the highest skill gap in the game between a bad and a good player in the game) is just wrong btw, I take it you're taking your experience from random BGs and not arena?

I can literally say the exact same thing about you and your FDK assessment. Having an easy "dps rotation" has nothing to do with generating enough kill pressure, which FDKs don't unless they did a very specific setup. Otherwise, you just have a "dot" running around, doing some low-to-medium damage that is very easy to get rid of with cc.

And no, my opinion on rogues and discs comes from arenas and rbgs. Even the shittiest player in the world can copy the one-shot macro for the rogue and still be able to kill even a mediocre player on another class. Same for discs, except surviving an assault by several mediocre players all on their own.

[Frozenbeef]

Been playing warlock for the past two months and it just got destroyed when against any class and had to put substantially more effort in just to get average DPS.. seen as they don't seem to want to fix it i created a marksman hunter... it's the easiest thing ever, things just die with your super high range aimed shot/ sniper shot, none interruptible abilities and dozens of snares, slows and escape abilities. Repeatedly getting the most kills/ least deaths in pvp and barely lifting a finger :s

Think a couple of other easy specs (or at least vastly OP for the amount of effort) are Shadow Priest boomkin and firemage.

[Nuba]

I can literally say the exact same thing about you and your FDK assessment. Having an easy "dps rotation" has nothing to do with generating enough kill pressure, which FDKs don't unless they did a very specific setup. Otherwise, you just have a "dot" running around, doing some low-to-medium damage that is very easy to get rid of with cc.

And no, my opinion on rogues and discs comes from arenas and rbgs. Even the shittiest player in the world can copy the one-shot macro for the rogue and still be able to kill even a mediocre player on another class. Same for discs, except surviving an assault by several mediocre players all on their own.

Oh so you are just spreading false information based on your short experience while pretending to have knowledge on the game?

Alright then, I advise anyone reading this to ignore this guy's posts on this thread to prevent any missinformation from being absorbed

Have a good day

[Draylock]

Oh so you are just spreading false information based on your short experience while pretending to have knowledge on the game?

Alright then, I advise anyone reading this to ignore this guy's posts on this thread to prevent any missinformation from being absorbed

Have a good day

So simply cause you lack the understanding, have your own misguided opinions, fail to provide any proof, and refuse to listen I'm the one in the wrong? Very interesting approach indeed.

[Tarx]

Play ret paladin is the most easy to play because have a lot of defensive skills and a lot of dmg

[MakePvPGreatAgain]

So simply cause you lack the understanding, have your own misguided opinions, fail to provide any proof, and refuse to listen I'm the one in the wrong? Very interesting approach indeed.

Nah, he's right, you're wrong.

What he is saying, is playing a low skill cap class, like frost DK is good because it makes you improves at the game much more in terms of general game knowledge (what other classes do, what you should interrupt, etc) cause their kit is simple and requires you less time and effort in order to do maximum dps efficiency. So you can spend more time on what's happening in the game instead of trying to not fuck up your own stuff. And he's completely right in that regards actually cause it's hard to fuck up as a frost DK damage.

Yes, you can see a big difference between a good frost DK and a bad one, but what he is saying is that he class is much more simple than most.

Also, are you honestly saying disc and sub is brain dead.... What?

[Draylock]

Nah, he's right, you're wrong.

What he is saying, is playing a low skill cap class, like frost DK is good because it makes you improves at the game much more in terms of general game knowledge (what other classes do, what you should interrupt, etc) cause their kit is simple and requires you less time and effort in order to do maximum dps efficiency. So you can spend more time on what's happening in the game instead of trying to not fuck up your own stuff. And he's completely right in that regards actually cause it's hard to fuck up a frost DK damage.

Yes, you can see a big difference between a good frost DK and a bad one, but what he is saying is that he class is much more simple than most.

Also, are you honestly saying disc and sub is brain dead.... What?

You are literally countering yourself in your own post. You can't be "hard to fuck up" and "see a big difference between a good and a bad one". It's that, or we're talking about completely different concepts of "easy" and "hard". My "easy" means that you are effective while doing minimal effort. Hence, disc and sub are easy. Is there room to grow in those specs? Of course, there is. Are they incredibly strong even in the hands of a beginner? Yes, they are. Using the same logic, FDK is not easy, cause despite having a "simple kit" you will not be effective unless you know exactly how to use it. That "maximum dps efficiency" you're talking about comes from a proper Chill Streak setup, not from spamming Obli/FS/Rime with Pillar up in the open. And what "most classes" exactly are more difficult than Frost? Where is this assumption coming from?

If we're talking about just dps rotations, how exactly is Frost any easier than what warriors, rets, hunters, DHs, mages, rogues do? Let's be honest for a moment, all dps rotations right now are pretty much uniformly 4-5 buttons, with 2-3 buttons being used slightly more often than the remaining ones.

[MakePvPGreatAgain]

You are literally countering yourself in your own post. You can't be "hard to fuck up" and "see a big difference between a good and a bad one". It's that, or we're talking about completely different concepts of "easy" and "hard". My "easy" means that you are effective while doing minimal effort. Hence, disc and sub are easy. Is there room to grow in those specs? Of course, there is. Are they incredibly strong even in the hands of a beginner? Yes, they are. Using the same logic, FDK is not easy, cause despite having a "simple kit" you will not be effective unless you know exactly how to use it. That "maximum dps efficiency" you're talking about comes from a proper Chill Streak setup, not from spamming Obli/FS/Rime with Pillar up in the open. And what "most classes" exactly are more difficult than Frost? Where is this assumption coming from?

If we're talking about just dps rotations, how exactly is Frost any easier than what warriors, rets, hunters, DHs, mages, rogues do? Let's be honest for a moment, all dps rotations right now are pretty much uniformly 4-5 buttons, with 2-3 buttons being used slightly more often than the remaining ones.

It was a typo btw which I corrected, it's hard to fuck up AS A Frost DK. It seems like you quoted the post before I made the edit, weird because I made the edit at 11:23 and your post was at 11:32, guess you were taking the time type correctly I guess. But if you see where I was going you could have figured that out by yourself. I'm sorry you couldn't

And i'll be honest, saying FDK is not easy just means you haven't played enough class to know, cause it's really one of the easiest DPS spec there is in the game. It's like I said to that other guy, why would I take the time to write it down to you why FDK is easier than arms? Why is that my job? Am I the PVP educator of this forum? No.

You need to be critical here and stop digging your head in the sand. Make your own experimentation, look it up. Level up an arms, try it out, you'll see. I'm fairly confident after a while you will realize that's it's farm from easy. You do know Arms kit is one the spec that got the most in terms of new abilities? Right ? Also, if you look at supatease videos on youtube (One of the PvP commentator that was in AWC, a huge pillar of this pvp community who knows more about this game then me and you combine) clearly express the difficulty increase in arms in PvP. It's not the hardest spec, but it's clearly one spec that you just can't pick if you're a new player at the game. Frost DK IS a good spec to pick when you're new at the game, which is what this entire post is.

If you need to feel better cause you think that FDK is hard to play, i'm sorry but it's not. I don't know what else to say, but Nuba explained it to you, and I did it as well. At this point it's not us who needs to be convinced, it's you man.

[Draylock]

It was a typo btw which I corrected, it's hard to fuck up AS A Frost DK. It seems like you quoted the post before I made the edit, weird because I made the edit at 11:23 and your post was at 11:32, guess you were taking the time type correctly I guess. But if you see where I was going you could have figured that out by yourself. I'm sorry you couldn't

And i'll be honest, saying FDK is not easy just means you haven't played enough class to know, cause it's really one of the easiest DPS spec there is in the game. It's like I said to that other guy, why would I take the time to write it down to you why FDK is easier than arms? Why is that my job? Am I the PVP educator of this forum? No.

You need to be critical here and stop digging your head in the sand. Make your own experimentation, look it up. Level up an arms, try it out, you'll see. I'm fairly confident after a while you will realize that's it's farm from easy. You do know Arms kit is one the spec that got the most in terms of new abilities? Right ? Also, if you look at supatease videos on youtube (One of the PvP commentator that was in AWC, a huge pillar of this pvp community who knows more about this game then me and you combine) clearly express the difficulty increase in arms in PvP. It's not the hardest spec, but it's clearly one spec that you just can't pick if you're a new player at the game. Frost DK IS a good spec to pick when you're new at the game, which is what this entire post is.

If you need to feel better cause you think that FDK is hard to play, i'm sorry but it's not. I don't know what else to say, but Nuba explained it to you, and I did it as well. At this point it's not us who needs to be convinced, it's you man.

I'm sorry, but you completely failed to understand what I said. Let's try again:

You can't be "hard to fuck up" and "see a big difference between a good and a bad one".

It makes the exact same sense with your edit. Cause the sense was already there, your edit didn't really change anything.
I've played DK, Rogue, Shaman, Warrior, Priest, Hunter and DH as dps in different moments of the game. I consider all of them to be equally easy. It just so happens that BoS Frost is the most engaging and most rewarding for me to play. So you can shove your condescension up your backdoor
But nobody plays BoS in PvP for obvious reasons so that's nor here nor there. Since you struggle to read my previous post in its entirety, I'll repeat here for you:
all specs are equally easy in terms of pure dps rotations in pvp. All of them have 4-5 buttons that are used regularly with 2-3 buttons that can be considered nukes. For example, let's compare Arms and Frost in terms of buttons:
Fillers: Slam and Overpower for Warrior, Obliterate and Frost Strike for Frost (with the caveat that Frost needs to keep their resources in mind and have runes/RP ready to slow enemies/heal up and Warrior needs the rage to have Mortal Strike ready to use (and Execute without SD up when target is low)
DoT: Rend for Warrior (if talented), Frost Fever for FDK
Short cooldown: Sharpen Blade Mortal Strike for Warrior, Remorseless Winter for FDK
Cooldowns: Warbreaker/Avatar/Bladestorm for Warrior, Pillar/ERW/Frostwyrm's Fury for FDK

So how exactly is Arms so much harder than Frost? And try not to spout your emotional nonsense and actually think about it.

And yes, I do take my time with posting. English isn't my first language so it takes a while to properly translate a thought.

[MakePvPGreatAgain]

I'm sorry, but you completely failed to understand what I said. Let's try again:

You can't be "hard to fuck up" and "see a big difference between a good and a bad one".

It makes the exact same sense with your edit. Cause the sense was already there, your edit didn't really change anything.
I've played DK, Rogue, Shaman, Warrior, Priest, Hunter and DH as dps in different moments of the game. I consider all of them to be equally easy. It just so happens that BoS Frost is the most engaging and most rewarding for me to play. So you can shove your condescension up your backdoor
But nobody plays BoS in PvP for obvious reasons so that's nor here nor there. Since you struggle to read my previous post in its entirety, I'll repeat here for you:
all specs are equally easy in terms of pure dps rotations in pvp. All of them have 4-5 buttons that are used regularly with 2-3 buttons that can be considered nukes. For example, let's compare Arms and Frost in terms of buttons:
Fillers: Slam and Overpower for Warrior, Obliterate and Frost Strike for Frost (with the caveat that Frost needs to keep their resources in mind and have runes/RP ready to slow enemies/heal up and Warrior needs the rage to have Mortal Strike ready to use (and Execute without SD up when target is low)
DoT: Rend for Warrior (if talented), Frost Fever for FDK
Short cooldown: Sharpen Blade Mortal Strike for Warrior, Remorseless Winter for FDK
Cooldowns: Warbreaker/Avatar/Bladestorm for Warrior, Pillar/ERW/Frostwyrm's Fury for FDK

So how exactly is Arms so much harder than Frost? And try not to spout your emotional nonsense and actually think about it.

I'm sorry i'm just gonna be honest, i'm not gonna read your post as arguing with someone like you is a pointless exercise. I said everything I had to say which aligned with what Nuba told you but I guess he was smarter than me when it comes to letting go cause I don't think there is anything I can say or do that will make you understand.

I still hope you have good day though

[Draylock]

I'm sorry i'm just gonna be honest, i'm not gonna read your post as arguing with someone like you is a pointless exercise. I said everything I had to say which aligned with what Nuba told you but I guess he was smarter than me when it comes to letting go cause I don't think there is anything I can say or do that will make you understand.

I still hope you have good day though

I love this level of "logic" and "debate skills".

A: *some stupid feelcraft bullshit*
B: no, because this, this and this
A: Sorry, not gonna read, it's pointless to argue with you

And you actually think you're taking "the high road" here
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[MakePvPGreatAgain]

I love this level of "logic" and "debate skills".

A: *some stupid feelcraft bullshit*
B: no, because this, this and this
A: Sorry, not gonna read, it's pointless to argue with you

And you actually think you're taking "the high road" here
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You can see it anyway you would like buddy

But seeing what you just wrote - Arguing with you REALLY is a pointless exercise

I'm going to trust the high ranked PvPer that have years of experience in the PvP arena, who are deeply connected with the PvP community for years and that have deep game knowledge. Not some random 1400 dude that thinks Frost DKS are hard (big lol btw), and than trying to compared talented shit like REND (which is a dead Arms Talent in PvP). You have no idea what you are talking about and not me or Nuba has the patience or the will to help you out Maybe look at PvP ressources on youtube and skill capped? I don't know at this point if words can't do the trick maybe you just need to change your attitude and how you look at things.

Here, i'll even help you out so you don't have too look up for HOURS on youtube :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjA3Q-YdAcs&

You have fun in your pvp experience sir!

[heheszek]

Been playing warlock for the past two months and it just got destroyed when against any class and had to put substantially more effort in just to get average DPS.. seen as they don't seem to want to fix it i created a marksman hunter... it's the easiest thing ever, things just die with your super high range aimed shot/ sniper shot, none interruptible abilities and dozens of snares, slows and escape abilities. Repeatedly getting the most kills/ least deaths in pvp and barely lifting a finger :s

Think a couple of other easy specs (or at least vastly OP for the amount of effort) are Shadow Priest boomkin and firemage.

maybe u just havent found every spell in ur locks spellbook?
mm hunter has no stuns so u cant blindly just push 20k chaos bolts on deathcoil/shadowfury/fearspam/infernal stun
try casting aimed shot vs a decent player when u cant stun him and he is for example stormbolting, disarming, fearing u on cd and when u eventually do its 5k crit while he just white hit u for 3k
atm mm hunter (most op spec in the game i u read forums) has the lowest % representation as caster/ranged in 2s 3s and rbg, its only good if u attack afk players in random battlegrounds majority of the times overgeared because u aint invited into rated games