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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Didn't say "over", I said "fuck them both for being clowns, I will get my information elsewhere".
    "both being clowns"? Really....


    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    For the last time Cubby, no one gives a fuck about the engineering challenges or the hurdles overcome in the Fruitloop design procees besides people that are avid fans of that sort of thing.
    Actually, those are exactly the issues people have been citing declaring the project "not feasible". I'm sorry you're not up to speed with this conversation, but maybe that is an indicator of your above statement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    And that's entirely the point. It's novel, it's glamorous, pay no attention to the fact that it is and continues to be a program geared and marketed primarily towards upper middle class white people in tech hubs as a way to enjoy the benefits of public transport without having to sit next to the poors, and that the money wasted on Fruitloop could be spent on other methods of transportation that the poorest citizens will be able to use as the default, not just people who are insufficiently senior at their startups to telecommute.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Americans will literally waste billions of dollars trying to prove that hating poor people and having functional public transportation aren't mutually exclusive than go to therapy. /s
    That is an entirely different conversation on this subject.

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    "both being clowns"? Really....
    I'm not saying that naming your kid Phenomenology or w/e and then getting into racially charged Twitter spats while your wife is convalescing from labor is clown-like, but...



    Actually, those are exactly the issues people have been citing declaring the project "not feasible". I'm sorry you're not up to speed with this conversation, but maybe that is an indicator of your above statement.
    My mistake then.

    The only people that give a fuck about the engineering challenges are the tech bros and the people that deign to get dragged down into technical details rather than fundamental questions, like...

    That is an entirely different conversation on this subject.
    It really isn't. When you're getting into discussions of public transportation, things like that should be the first consideration; the fact that Musk has successfully convinced so many people to sidestep the ethical and social questions and immediately hyperfixate on the technical challenges to the point there are tax breaks being given for an unproven system while existing public transportation languishes for lack of funding is telling.

    It's not about accessibility or public benefit, regardless of what the PR says. It's about aggrandizing Musk's brands and making as tidy a sum as possible in the process regardless of whether or not Fruitloop ever actually sees the light of day. Which is excused because Americans largely persist in the delusion that this massive waste of money and time somehow trickles down to everyone else.

    SpaceX having a valid case for its existence is not a transitive property to Musk's other subsidiaries, dude.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2021-01-19 at 02:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    My mistake then.

    The only people that give a fuck about the engineering challenges are the tech bros and the people that deign to get dragged down into technical details rather than fundamental questions, like...
    And I would respectfully disagree.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    It really isn't. When you're getting into discussions of public transportation, things like that should be the first consideration; the fact that Musk has successfully convinced so many people to sidestep the ethical and social questions and immediately hyperfixate on the technical challenges to the point there are tax breaks being given for an unproven system while existing public transportation languishes for lack of funding is telling.

    It's not about accessibility or public benefit, regardless of what the PR says. It's about aggrandizing Musk's brands and making as tidy a sum as possible in the process regardless of whether or not Fruitloop ever actually sees the light of day. Which is excused because Americans largely persist in the delusion that this massive waste of money and time somehow trickles down to everyone else.
    Indeed it is telling. But as I said before, that is a separate discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    SpaceX having a valid case for its existence is not a transitive property to Musk's other subsidiaries, dude.
    And in no way shape or form have I ever said that. Dude.

  4. #284
    You guys need a room...on Mars.

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    You guys need a room...on Mars.
    Hopefully an under-oxygenated one. With loans.

    I appreciate legitimate conversations about Musk's serious social issues. And I know that @Elegiac has issues with anyone who is a billionaire, and THAT opens up several streams of separate converations.

    But the people who post "he's an idiot" or "[it's not feasible]" just get laughed out of the conversation. Musk is a lot of things, but idiot is NOT one of them. I'm on record several times (even in this very thread) agreeing with some of the issues with Hyperloop, and agreeing that Musk has multiple personal issues. But none of that has any impact on the legitimacy of the Hyperloop nor the genius and unbridled success of Musk. Those are both objective evaluations.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just as an example of the irrationality of the Elon Musk Haters Gonna Hate Club, whom we see in this thread many times, the original topic was about SpaceX and whether it and the many other private companies are on the cusp of a new space age.

    And all they do is answer with:
    (1) Musk didn't do any of the engineering (which he actually did), so he doesn't deserve any of the credit, or:
    (2) Hyperloop is stupid and won't work.

    And you wonder why I laugh at them so merrily.

  6. #286
    Well, I made my comments...and since I've nothing else to offer other than snark...

    ...and the door hits me on the ass as I walk out.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    It's beyond adorable who you're citing (do you even know?).... I mean, the Hater's Gotta Hate club just gets more and more hysterical (both uses of the word). Holy fuck does your club SUCK at this kind of thing.

    Who is she?
    What are her credentials?
    Is LOOTING WALMART her only goal?
    You don't need to be a scientist to say that Florida is a poor place to construct a series of underground tunnels.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    You don't need to be a scientist to say that Florida is a poor place to construct a series of underground tunnels.
    The problem with following people who are completely unvetted and ignoring those people with science backgrounds is that you end up saying idiotic things like the above.

    By listening to scientists and experts in the field, like Elon Musk, you would know that Florida already has completed tunnel projects in the past 10 years.

    Which is why I don't listen to either tweet-idiots or the people who post them, and rather focus on science (see also facts/reality) and do my own research. But please, go on about all the fucking things you are so ignorant about you post without even bothering a simple google search.

    Holy fuck do you Haters-Gonna-Hate Fan Boi's SUCK at this.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The problem with following people who are completely unvetted and ignoring those people with science backgrounds is that you end up saying idiotic things like the above.

    By listening to scientists and experts in the field, like Elon Musk, you would know that Florida already has completed tunnel projects in the past 10 years.

    Which is why I don't listen to either tweet-idiots or the people who post them, and rather focus on science (see also facts/reality) and do my own research. But please, go on about all the fucking things you are so ignorant about you post without even bothering a simple google search.

    Holy fuck do you Haters-Gonna-Hate Fan Boi's SUCK at this.
    Elon Musk is not an engineering expert.

    That tunnel cost $3 billion to complete at a length of 1.3kms. It's not "haters gonna hate", it's the fact that his idea his cost-prohibitive and Florida's geography complicates things.

    Don't go off on a childish tirade and start insulting and swearing at me just because I made a point of that.

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Elon Musk is not an engineering expert.

    That tunnel cost $3 billion to complete at a length of 1.3kms. It's not "haters gonna hate", it's the fact that his idea his cost-prohibitive and Florida's geography complicates things.

    Don't go off on a childish tirade and start insulting and swearing at me just because I made a point of that.
    He has been told this many, many times, nothing will make Musk fans understand that all he does is hire the poeple that do that all the work.

  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Elon Musk is not an engineering expert.
    Elon Musk is an engineering expert, and Stanford's energy physics/materials science department agrees with me. You don't want him to be, because your *feels* continually outpace your rational judgment. Musk helped design the Falcon 9 rocket - and I mean literally, not organizationally (SpaceX was out of money for hiring more engineers, so he rolled up his sleeves and dug in).


    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    That tunnel cost $3 billion to complete at a length of 1.3kms. It's not "haters gonna hate", it's the fact that his idea his cost-prohibitive and Florida's geography complicates things.
    Says the expert at goalpost moving. The tunnel was not only built in Florida, but it was built right at the waters edge. So all the issues you people have with Musk's statement about Hyperloops in Florida die a ridiculous death on the Hater's Hill.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Don't go off on a childish tirade and start insulting and swearing at me just because I made a point of that.
    Don't need to, just enjoy pointing out all the lack-of-logics you people embrace in your tyrannical and irrational hatred for someone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    He has been told this many, many times, nothing will make Musk fans understand that all he does is hire the poeple that do that all the work.
    Musk personally helped design the Falcon 9 rocket. Oh, and Stanford's energy physics/materials science department called - you're 100% wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    He has been told this many, many times, nothing will make Musk fans understand that all he does is hire the poeple that do that all the work.
    You know what's really interesting? You're essentially lying here, because in fact you do not know this to be true whatsoever. That's interesting...you're not only intellectually dishonest, but you're a liar. And all because you can't assign success to objective accomplishments - even if the person in question has other less redeeming qualities.

    That's disappointing.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Musk personally helped design the Falcon 9 rocket. Oh, and Stanford's energy physics/materials science department called - you're 100% wrong.
    I know this might come as a shock to you, but being accepted into a Ph.D. program isn't that hard, especially in the US with their rather wild admission criteria and the current open spots in a program. He had a somewhat relating bachelor of Arts in physics besides his first degree, a bachelor of science in economy. I'm not sure how indepth the US BA goes here, especially since the curriculum of today will hardly represent the one in the late 90. While he might have, at one point in time, met the basic criteria to pass some physics tests and graduate with a bachelor, quitting after 2 days does not make him an engineering expert. A degree in physics in general does not make you an expert in any field undless you have some actual work in that field to show for it. He made his money with paypal, not with designing tunnels, rockets or cars.
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2021-01-20 at 12:52 AM.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    I know this might come as a shock to you, but being accepted into a Ph.D. program isn't that hard, especially in the US with their rather wild admission criteria and the current open spots in a program. He had a somewhat relating bachelor of Arts in physics besides his first degree, a bachelor of science in economy. I'm not sure how indepth the US BA goes here, especially since the curriculum of today will hardly represent the one in the late 90. While he might have, at one point in time, met the basic criteria to pass some physics tests and graduate with a bachelor, quitting after 2 days does not make him an engineering expert. A degree in physics in general does not make you an expert in any field undless you have some actual work in that field to show for it. He made his money with paypal, not with designing tunnels, rockets or cars.
    This is exactly the kind of intellectual dishonesty that signifies the Haters crowd. It's amazing to me the leaps and bounds you people will travel to deny objective facts. You people don't even offer any evidence - just bullshit conjecture and bullshit conjecture. It is truly a wonder to see what you people will do to deny reality. You post something right now proving the thesis that Musk isn't a good engineer or just admit you and your cohorts are wrong.

    BTW, the acceptance rate for Stanford's Physics PhD program is 8.5%. Musk also worked directly with other engineers in building the Falcon 9 Rocket. By any objective standard Musk is an excellent engineer. You let me know if you come by any evidence to the contrary.

    I will make a side note here that you may have just been offering the flip side of the coin I was presenting, in which please accept a more toned down version of the above. If you are just offering a flip side, why are you taking the intellectually dishonest one? Why not take the side that has objective facts backing it up at every corner?

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    This is exactly the kind of intellectual dishonesty that signifies the Haters crowd. It's amazing to me the leaps and bounds you people will travel to deny objective facts. You people don't even offer any evidence - just bullshit conjecture and bullshit conjecture. It is truly a wonder to see what you people will do to deny reality. You post something right now proving the thesis that Musk isn't a good engineer or just admit you and your cohorts are wrong.
    Or what, you gonna cry? What argument do you have other than "whaa whaa you don't worship my messias!". Do you honestly want to me dig up some dudes piddly BA thesis from 26 years ago? You realize that bachelor thesis in general have barely any relevance to begin with? Well, you probably don't. Has it even been digitized? I can tell you for a fact that as an engineer you usually go at least for a bachelor of science in the field you want to be recognized in - which he did with his PhD program, that he left after 2 days. Also as I said, the current admission rate of a phd program has no relevance to the one it did 26 years ago.

    As for proof, you can take a look at all the mistakes musk wrote into his hyperloop white paper to see that he has no fucking clue about engineering. This starts with his nonsensical air pressure leviation which even if it worked from a thermodynical PoV is still leaps and bounds besides actual technical reality and his utter disregard for economic viablility in general, which frankly puts his economy thesis into question as well. Well at least if you actually care to make a viable product instead of playing the stock and research grants market.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Or what, you gonna cry? What argument do you have other than "whaa whaa you don't worship my messias!". Do you honestly want to me dig up some dudes piddly BA thesis from 26 years ago? You realize that bachelor thesis in general have barely any relevance to begin with? Well, you probably don't. Has it even been digitized? I can tell you for a fact that as an engineer you usually go at least for a bachelor of science in the field you want to be recognized in - which he did with his PhD program, that he left after 2 days. Also as I said, the current admission rate of a phd program has no relevance to the one it did 26 years ago.
    What? Holy fuck do you Haters need some reality checks. Please point to any objective evidence that supports Elon Musk not being a good engineer. We'll wait.


    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    As for proof, you can take a look at all the mistakes musk wrote into his hyperloop white paper to see that he has no fucking clue about engineering. This starts with his nonsensical air pressure leviation which even if it worked from a thermodynical PoV is still leaps and bounds besides actual technical reality and his utter disregard for economic viablility in general, which frankly puts his economy thesis into question as well. Well at least if you actually care to make a viable product instead of playing the stock and research grants market.
    Wow...you people just need a new hobby or something. Musk writes a White Paper on the Hyperloop project, and YOU have one issue with it that might not be right, and THAT'S your evidence for him being a bad engineer. Do you even fucking hear how utterly ridiculous you sound? The Hater's Gonna Hate Club gets a new Vice President! Congrats!

    Remember, in case you want to crash back down to reality and face facts. Stanford Phd Physics Program. Designed rockets that now land on their own - he literally worked on the design, not just hiring people.

    Come on back when you're ready to have a rational conversation. We'll be here.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Elon Musk is an engineering expert, and Stanford's energy physics/materials science department agrees with me. You don't want him to be, because your *feels* continually outpace your rational judgment. Musk helped design the Falcon 9 rocket - and I mean literally, not organizationally (SpaceX was out of money for hiring more engineers, so he rolled up his sleeves and dug in).
    Do you even know what degrees your idol actually obtained? Hint: they're not engineering degrees. Stanford never gave him an engineering degree.

    You cannot be an engineering expert if you're not qualified for the title. Save that credit for the team of engineers who actually do all the work.

    Says the expert at goalpost moving. The tunnel was not only built in Florida, but it was built right at the waters edge. So all the issues you people have with Musk's statement about Hyperloops in Florida die a ridiculous death on the Hater's Hill.
    Please do a cost-benefit analysis and get back to us, because you clearly have no idea how much his vision would actually cost to build and maintain. You have already been linked about the glaring tech and economical problems from various experts.

    Don't need to, just enjoy pointing out all the lack-of-logics you people embrace in your tyrannical and irrational hatred for someone.
    Coming from someone with little understanding of science and technology, these are empty words. Additionally, swearing and yelling at people, as well as arguing against qualified engineers is just making you look like a petulant child. Grow up.
    Last edited by Fargus; 2021-01-20 at 05:54 AM.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Wow...you people just need a new hobby or something. Musk writes a White Paper on the Hyperloop project, and YOU have one issue with it that might not be right, and THAT'S your evidence for him being a bad engineer. Do you even fucking hear how utterly ridiculous you sound? The Hater's Gonna Hate Club gets a new Vice President! Congrats!
    Ummm..........

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Do you even know what degrees your idol actually obtained? Hint: they're not engineering degrees. Stanford never gave him an engineering degree.
    Do you not even read the things you quote? Hint: I never said he got a degree from Stanford.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    You cannot be an engineering expert if you're not qualified for the title. Save that credit for the team of engineers who actually do all the work.
    This doesn't even make sense. How do you get "qualified for the title"? Do you even read what you type any more - what a bunch of fucking drivel. Musk is an engineer, he literally helped design and build a rocket - let us know when you come across something that contradicts that (hint: evidence, not your fucking Hater opinion).

    Holy fuck do you SUCK at this. Looks like the Haters Club just got it's Secretary. Congrats!


    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Please do a cost-benefit analysis and get back to us, because you clearly have no idea how much his vision would actually cost to build and maintain. You have already been linked about the glaring tech and economical problems from various experts.
    And you've already been explained, over and over and over and over again, that a couple dozen cities and countries are working on these projects. So far all you Haters have is one article (that just points to tech issues, not impossibilities - oh, and it's from 2017) and a guy who can't cite anything. Come back with real evidence or better yet stay down. It's truly sad how you Hater's Club Members can't face facts and reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Coming from someone with little understanding of science and technology, these are empty words. Additionally, swearing and yelling at people, as well as arguing against qualified engineers is just making you look like a petulant child. Grow up.
    Awwww, look at you - denying reality and facts. Remember, I'm not relying on my knowledge of science and technology, I'm relying on the experts I've cited and quoted in this thread and others. What you're doing is pretending your opinion is the same as fact. You sound as bad as those fucking Trumpkins. Pathetic. Let me know when you have cites/facts/evidence (links to experts, not your asinine worthless opinion) to contradict the dozens of experts that are currently working on Hyperloop projects. Hint: more than one article.

    The facts are that despite some seriously fucked up personal issues, Elon Musk is both a business and engineering genius. But you Hater's Gonna Hate Founding Members are just beyond pathetic in denying objective facts because you're too intellectually dishonest to admit and that just because you don't like him, doesn't mean he isn't those things.

    Grow up (am I doing that right? ).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Heidelstein View Post
    Ummm..........
    Hmmmmm..............

    I guess you were confused. I was pointing out how YOU thought one part of Musk's White Paper was wrong. That doesn't mean anything - you need to cite something that agrees with you.

    Shout if you have questions about how evidence works. We're here all week.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Do you not even read the things you quote? Hint: I never said he got a degree from Stanford.
    Then don't refer to Stanford by telling someone "oh Stanford will say you're wrong". His time there doesn't make him an expert.

    This doesn't even make sense. How do you get "qualified for the title"? Do you even read what you type any more - what a bunch of fucking drivel. Musk is an engineer, he literally helped design and build a rocket - let us know when you come across something that contradicts that (hint: evidence, not your fucking Hater opinion).
    By actually having industry-recognised qualifications, for starters. My mate works as a head chef at a restaurant, that doesn't suddenly make him a health and safety consultant for the Department of Health... to use an example. By "helped", you mean finance the right people for the job and to enable his company to do that, sure. He's a businessman, not a rocket scientist/engineer. And if he's the latter, then he'd be a particularly bad one (his white paper on the Hyperloop and that little submarine idea for the Thai kids trapped in the cave being clear examples).

    And you've already been explained, over and over and over and over again, that a couple dozen cities and countries are working on these projects. So far all you Haters have is one article (that just points to tech issues, not impossibilities - oh, and it's from 2017) and a guy who can't cite anything. Come back with real evidence or better yet stay down. It's truly sad how you Hater's Club Members can't face facts and reality.
    They aren't though. There's been zero construction on a mass-transit Hyperloop system anywhere in the world, apart from a few "test runs"... all this has been going on for the best part of a decade. What are you referring to from 2017? You do realise it's only a few years, right? Not like we've suddenly have had this massive breakthrough where it actually makes it practical to build vacuum chambers hundreds of miles long.

    Awwww, look at you - denying reality and facts. Remember, I'm not relying on my knowledge of science and technology, I'm relying on the experts I've cited and quoted in this thread and others.
    What experts have you cited who have said Hyperloop systems like this are commercially viable?

    But so you should - so you can actually understand the technical challenges here instead of making yourself look childish and condescending. Pretending this is some kind of "contest" just devalues anything you've said.

    What you're doing is pretending your opinion is the same as fact. You sound as bad as those fucking Trumpkins. Pathetic. Let me know when you have cites/facts/evidence (links to experts, not your asinine worthless opinion) to contradict the dozens of experts that are currently working on Hyperloop projects. Hint: more than one article.
    Not worthless at all. This article pretty much mirrors what I've been saying. Additionally, this comparative analysis paper concludes:
    "the cost of the overall system was roughly 10 times larger than Musk’s initial prediction … which relied on undeveloped or immature technology"
    "The findings, based on design feasibility and financial metrics, suggest that High Speed Rail is the better design option."
    Are the people I have linked to show you why it's not feasible denying reality too?

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Hmmmmm..............

    I guess you were confused. I was pointing out how YOU thought one part of Musk's White Paper was wrong. That doesn't mean anything - you need to cite something that agrees with you.

    Shout if you have questions about how evidence works. We're here all week.
    Nah, just pointing out that competent engineers don't make basic mistakes/assumptions like that and publish it. Someone already pointed out the air pressure levitation thing. I'm sure Haidaes can elaborate further than you, someone with an actual engineering background. Don't lecture to people how evidence works when you ignore really fundamental things that make stuff like Elon's "white paper" a barely passable undergrad paper. You can't just shrug away basic errors or oversights like that, engineering papers aren't supposed to be Bibles. Go trash it out with Haidaes if you're so offended by it.

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