Tanking doesn't feel fun anymore

[tomten]

I do not talk about high end content. It's a mathematical fact that WoG is the better decision if you take than "so much" damage while the shield is up.
I do not know the exact numbers these days, but it was something like 25k-ish with M0 gear.

Ofc you NEED the shield uptime if you do higher content, no one said anything different, as I already said in the post you quoted.

No, its not a fact... Again, its quite literally the opposite, its a mathematical fact that using WoG is the wrong decision, with 2 exceptions...You will die in the next global or you have so much gear and haste that you can sustain 100% uptime on sotr and use the the extra HP on WoG.... This is not up for debate bro.

IV is referring to raiding on their tank ranking list. It talks about M+, Torghast, and other aspects of the game when you go into the class/spec page for each of the specs. The ranking page is strictly for raiding. Straight from IV's tank ranking page:

Doesn't matter they're still wrong. And from what you quoted... No, you can absolutely not play any tank at the moment for mythic raiding.
Play paladin or monk and you are hindering the raid, which not many will do at that level.

Paladin is middle of the pack, not bad, not op and it have its moment.
On top of that, protadin is by far, BY FAR the most fun tank to play atm. There is even rumors sotr is bugged and does not apply the armor reduction as it should.

[Devilyaki]

After a week thinking about kyrian opness or venthyr I just decided that my prot paladin will be venthyr too Kyrian ability is so powerful,but I just cant stomach that covenant at all,the visuals,the characters etc are so bland. Its a shame,since DT is op,but venthyr is so fitting for a blood knight (plus I will retri in arena and venthyr is good for that aswell)

What I ended up doing too, the blood move is still fun and the teleport too

[Bloodyleech]

except it does an assload of damage as well as opposed to just overhealing / causing the healer to overheal you for no reason. but yep you got it all figured out.

I know it.
I looked at the defensive side of both abilities, not the offensive. If you just look at those 2, it's obvious that WoG is stronger -as long- as you do not take incredible dmg in a short time - namely: lower content or solo'ing content (dungeons/raids). See below.

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No, its not a fact... Again, its quite literally the opposite, its a mathematical fact that using WoG is the wrong decision, with 2 exceptions...You will die in the next global or you have so much gear and haste that you can sustain 100% uptime on sotr and use the the extra HP on WoG.... This is not up for debate bro.

Then we simply have to disagree here, buddy. You look at content where it is obviously (I even agreed you on that part) important to have a high SoTR uptime, I look at situations where you do not take as much dmg - lower content, or solo'ing content (dungeons/raids).

When solo'ing dungeons or raidbosses, you do not have someone in your back that heals you - you have to either reduce your taken dmg or heal yourself, which is exactly the situation where you have to see how much dmg sotr negates.

[Samuraijake]

woops thought this was a tanking in general thread.. not pally tanking thread .

[tomten]

Then we simply have to disagree here, buddy. You look at content where it is obviously (I even agreed you on that part) important to have a high SoTR uptime, I look at situations where you do not take as much dmg - lower content, or solo'ing content (dungeons/raids).

When solo'ing dungeons or raidbosses, you do not have someone in your back that heals you - you have to either reduce your taken dmg or heal yourself, which is exactly the situation where you have to see how much dmg sotr negates.

Who the fk cares about you solo'ing some old raids? Like seriously? You dont even need gear for that, at all, or even abilities. So whats the point?
For anyone actually playing current content, regardless if its lfr or mythic, will do it wrong if they press wog, like i've explained.

[Bloodyleech]

Who the fk cares about you solo'ing some old raids? Like seriously? You dont even need gear for that, at all, or even abilities. So whats the point?
For anyone actually playing current content, regardless if its lfr or mythic, will do it wrong if they press wog, like i've explained.

Who said old raids? C'mon mate, you do not even try, do you?
If soloing myths, no, you can not ignore using WoG. Looks like your brain is lagging quite hard, if you are still arguing it like this. Once again - I agree with harder content, but not on easier.

[ZazuuPriest]

I know it.
I looked at the defensive side of both abilities, not the offensive. If you just look at those 2, it's obvious that WoG is stronger -as long- as you do not take incredible dmg in a short time - namely: lower content or solo'ing content (dungeons/raids). See below.

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Then we simply have to disagree here, buddy. You look at content where it is obviously (I even agreed you on that part) important to have a high SoTR uptime, I look at situations where you do not take as much dmg - lower content, or solo'ing content (dungeons/raids).

When solo'ing dungeons or raidbosses, you do not have someone in your back that heals you - you have to either reduce your taken dmg or heal yourself, which is exactly the situation where you have to see how much dmg sotr negates.

even in situations where you dont take much damage what is the value of healing yourself (when youre not taking dmg as you said) as opposed to using on of your best dmg abilities?

At this point you must just be trolling.

[baskev]

Hey guys, long time no see.

I've been pally tanking since WOTLK. I loved it, felt like I always had something to do, damage was decent and plenty of defensive buttons.

Now I haven't played in a very long time, I think maybe MoP, and I now lots has changed.

I hit 60 playing ret and got a few pieces and tried to tank a normal. I've gotta say, it felt like... off. Maybe I'm not doing things right, but I really wanted to get other peoples opinions. Especially if you played during WOTLK and through to shadowlands experiencing all the changes.

If you have any tips or maybe good guides (I don't even know who has good guides anymore).

Thanks,
Nybras - Paladin on Shadow Council

Sorry had to laugh a lot first. have played paly since Wotlk. and maybe stopped in MoP....thats 3 expansions. Since then there has been WoD,Legion,BFA. so that is a very long time not to have played a paladin tank :S. Funny choice of words there.

But yeah, we have had a lot removed in years. Shadowlands did bring some stuff back though. Believe it has been worse.

How does it feel off to you? check icy veins and wowhead guides for best tips, rotations etc. But again what feels off dps?

I think you should realize that it is no more pull whole horde's ( no pun intented) of enemy's and survive stuff. Gear factors in a lot. But this expansion also has mob's with ability's you should counter or interupt etc. Or you get hit very hard.

Paladins ( my main alt is a prot paladin since.....launch :S). have in my eyes not be nerfed but corrected over the expansions. We have always been very strong in self heals and a lot of shielding, extra utility spells. But it was also the most easy to handle tanks. Believe me i tanked paladin and gaurdian and blood in raids. ( pala, druid on mythic).
While we as paladins are still strong. They did balanced our self heal. ( was way to OP in BFA).

Only thing i feel is off is the same thing my balance druid has. They both have extra powers ( holy power, and eclipses). And for some reason....they feel not in the right place. There is no ...flow you can find in gaining it and using it.

[Bloodyleech]

even in situations where you dont take much damage what is the value of healing yourself (when youre not taking dmg as you said) as opposed to using on of your best dmg abilities?

At this point you must just be trolling.

This has nothing to do with trolling, at all.
If going solo, you obviously have to heal yourself sometimes, no? You can't tell me you solo mythics without using WoG, at all. I'd even say that you do not even try to solo anything.

[prwraith]

I literally came on the forums to post how freaking OP paladin tanking is.

Prot Paladins do a lot of damage.

They are not the best tank.

[ZazuuPriest]

This has nothing to do with trolling, at all.
If going solo, you obviously have to heal yourself sometimes, no? You can't tell me you solo mythics without using WoG, at all. I'd even say that you do not even try to solo anything.

soloing mythics was never part of your original argument. but super nice try. You stated it as "most times better" to use WoG over SoTR unless youre taking "burst damage". That makes no sense anyway because you should always be using SoTR for the damage and DR benefit and only use WoG when you take burst damage as it heals more the more health youre missing. So using WoG more often is pointless unless you're constantly low, even then you should have almost perfect uptime on SoTR. You dont understand the class at a fundamental level but want to solo a mythic dungeon, have fun with that.

[Thundering]

Paladins haven't been fun in generally since wotlk it was the best class design time.

[Bloodyleech]

soloing mythics was never part of your original argument. but super nice try. You stated it as "most times better" to use WoG over SoTR unless youre taking "burst damage". That makes no sense anyway because you should always be using SoTR for the damage and DR benefit and only use WoG when you take burst damage as it heals more the more health youre missing. So using WoG more often is pointless unless you're constantly low, even then you should have almost perfect uptime on SoTR. You dont understand the class at a fundamental level but want to solo a mythic dungeon, have fun with that.

A statement made can be used for multiple situations. As some of you did not want to accept that "this may be used like this" I said where it IS used, but still it's said "no, not used, u bad" which is objectively wrong.
You obviously did not read all of my answers, otherwise you'd exactly know that I know how to play it. Maybe open your mind and try to read? Would help you in the future.

[tomten]

Who said old raids? C'mon mate, you do not even try, do you?
If soloing myths, no, you can not ignore using WoG. Looks like your brain is lagging quite hard, if you are still arguing it like this. Once again - I agree with harder content, but not on easier.

Its literally in my quote..... This is you.... "I look at situations where you do not take as much dmg - lower content, or solo'ing content (dungeons/raids)"
You sure as hell aint solo'ing current raids so............ ???????

[Bloodyleech]

Its literally in my quote..... This is you.... "I look at situations where you do not take as much dmg - lower content, or solo'ing content (dungeons/raids)"
You sure as hell aint solo'ing current raids so............ ???????

And why do you ignore dungeons? There WILL be a time when people will try to solo certain raid bosses, this was always the case - and when this is actually happening, it will be needed to use WoG, which is kinda obvious, huh? Same as Mythic dungeons right now.

[tomten]

And why do you ignore dungeons? There WILL be a time when people will try to solo certain raid bosses, this was always the case - and when this is actually happening, it will be needed to use WoG, which is kinda obvious, huh? Same as Mythic dungeons right now.

Nobody cares about solo content but keep moving the goalpost there buddy.

[Evereghalo]

Yes. But why would you? And you would be partially crippled imo.

[yuze]

When I played in TBC Tanking was so much fun, my favorite role. I resubbed hoping to tank again and, wow, it's not the same as it used to be, I mean what is this kiting nonsense, hardly feels like an RPG when you keep running away. I'd be more than happy with dodge mechanics but yeah, instead you get kiting on top of that with m+ you hve to intimately know the routes and get stressed. Not fun.

[Phala]

hardly feels like an RPG when you keep running away.

well thats the point: WoW is not an RPG anymore but an Action Adventure. Back when it was an RPG it was about your character (getting hitcapped, crit imune, crush resistant) and now its all about you (dodge the fire, be at point X in time). Bosses had mostly gear treshholds (your character), now its more about skill (you).
Name 1 item you have equipped without looking. No not "i have that haste proc trinket", but the actual name. Cant? - well you certainly could back in classic / tbc. Equipment (RPG element) is mostly a nuisance at this point - looting doesnt feel as rewarding as back then because it simply is not a core element of an Action Adventure but just a barrier.

It is certainly not the same kind of game anymore (which isnt per se a bad thing). If it isnt fun for you anymore - which i can relate to - it is because you like RPGs and WoW has slowly stopped beeing one.

[schwank05]

It feels bad in general, Heals feel like shit like they don't even heal I remember distinctively having 3 healers in our 10 mans and 5 in our 25 man raids back in TBC and WOLTK the Pally healer in our group would easily solo heal the tanks with no help ever from myself a Druid healer or our Holy Priest I could easily solo keep 10+ people in the raid fully healed with Rejuv spam. Now Rejuv feels like it does not even heal and HOL and FOL don't do shit for heals in general. Brewmaster tanks used to be able to solo most current content and could top DPS meters and kept themselves and half the raid healed with the bouncing green thing. The level squish is great the covenant system is fun, I love how fast you level now. But most classes feel bad in general. I miss Hit/ Exp. Cap, I miss Reforging.