Will There Ever Be a MMORPG Without a Combat Focus?

[Emma Nielsen]

Without combat it would be hard to have anything PvP related, as in competition. which would basically kill majority of mmorpg's

[iosdeveloper]

WoW feels to me like that.
Combat is bland, not engaging, just something to do, while you are living your fantasy)

[Verdalas]

I'm reminded of Mabinogi, an old MMO where you could progress through crafting/jobs/playing music and even play and level your pets on the side if you got bored of levelling your actual character. There were dungeons with combat for progression but as I recall it was almost like a rock-papers-scissors system where you just needed to hit the right button to attack/defend.

[Stormwolf64]

Those exist(ed). It's just that noone wants to play them.

Well, first we need to get a modern one. The market changes all the time. And naturally they'd need to design a compelling alternative to combat. Combat is what we're used to in more or less everything we play

[minteK917]

ff14 is closets we get. Personally when i finish the main story quest, i dont fight. I just craft for people, work on my housing and RP. Crafters and gatherers have their own story right now for example, rebuilding the destroyed city district of one of the capital, people use it to level, craft to make it progress for cosmetic, housing items, titles and ranks etc. Progress as a crafter and gatheter.

[Qnubi]

ff14 is closets we get. Personally when i finish the main story quest, i dont fight. I just craft for people, work on my housing and RP. Crafters and gatherers have their own story right now for example, rebuilding the destroyed city district of one of the capital, people use it to level, craft to make it progress for cosmetic, housing items, titles and ranks etc. Progress as a crafter and gatheter.

That's actually a great concept. Areas specifically for crafters and gatherers to play in. You re-build the main hub and the combat players would gain access to more/better and new shops as the crafters improve the city. Guilds could hire crafters which improve the guild halls etc, gaining better buffs/perks for the guild as a whole. Lot's of potential.

And for raids, crafters could come along to build/operate strong war machines and stun bosses that way or improve the DPS with the war machines. Gatherers come along in the raid to gather fuel for the war machines.

[Cracked]

Well, first we need to get a modern one. The market changes all the time. And naturally they'd need to design a compelling alternative to combat. Combat is what we're used to in more or less everything we play

That's just the thing. It's not compelling to begin with. How exactly do you see it play out without combat or minimal combat? What's the goal? What's the power progression, outside of arbitrary skill point gating? If you are a merchant, what's your profit for? If you are a crafter, what's the items you make for? Minecraft I get, the goal is to build cool shit. Player building has proven to simply not work in a long term persistent mmo world, on top of being incredibly hard to make engaging while making sure it doesn't break the game mechanics completely.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to me like the genre you are asking for doesn't exist because it's impossible to design. Those things are simply at odds with one another.

[Frozenbeef]

First MMO i played was called istaria, used to love the fact that the best gear came from crafters, while doing combat/adventure was to get resources for the crafters in the guild.

Compare that to wow where crafting is pretty much useless and everything is shoe horned into "raid raid raid" mentality...it doesn't make a good rpg :/

[Dilbon]

Just check out the aforementioned Tale in the Desert.
https://www.desert-nomad.com/

[procne]

There is a bunch, but I think they tend to stay niche.

For example Haven & Hearth. While it's hardcore PvP crafting game, you can avoid the PvP altogether, and concentrate on the crafting part. There still is the hunting part, but at that point it's only one of many activities. Ultima and FF14 were mentioned as well, as crafting games, but IMO it's not the same. There crafting is still centered around combat - you craft stuff needed for combat, just for others and not for yourself. In H&H you just craft to improve your character and progress to further industries.

A tale in the desert is similar, although more... old school, grindy and limited
There's also Wurm, which is more of a grindy progress bar simulator with some nice views

[Stormwolf64]

That's just the thing. It's not compelling to begin with. How exactly do you see it play out without combat or minimal combat? What's the goal? What's the power progression, outside of arbitrary skill point gating? If you are a merchant, what's your profit for? If you are a crafter, what's the items you make for? Minecraft I get, the goal is to build cool shit. Player building has proven to simply not work in a long term persistent mmo world, on top of being incredibly hard to make engaging while making sure it doesn't break the game mechanics completely.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to me like the genre you are asking for doesn't exist because it's impossible to design. Those things are simply at odds with one another.

No idea why you have an attitude. I do agree with you if you just read what i wrote. I cant imagine anything that could replace combat as a main mechanic for a mmo

[Selastan]

No idea why you have an attitude. I do agree with you if you just read what i wrote. I cant imagine anything that could replace combat as a main mechanic for a mmo

Runescape did it. Auto-attacking and occasionally eating food was as hard as it got. There were dozens of non-combat related skills, each of which take weeks if not months to max, and that's IF you have the resources. The challenge was there for those who wanted it, there were bosses that required positioning and even tick-perfect reactions, but those bosses were rare and everything they dropped could be sold. Players dedicated to crafting could use the billions of gold their skills made to buy this rare boss loot, they never had to go into a dungeon. The trouble is the way the game expanded. Old School Runescape lets players vote in everything added to the game. The developers have released tons of potential new non-combat skills, but none ever got added. But all kinds of dungeons and bosses were added, and even new things related to skilling were intense, sometimes dangerous, or just gated behind hard quests. The focus shifted, and it's unlikely to ever change.

That's all a game needs to do, different options you can build your character around, with combat just being one small aspect of it. Runescape was one of the most popular MMOs of all time, and barely anyone was fighting level 800 bosses and mastering prayer-flicking. They were cutting trees, building houses, and fishing.

[Edge-]

There are a bunch!

Ever Jane just closed (or announced it was closing) recently, it was a Jane Austin-themed MMO where you just like...socialized and shit.

Occupy White Walls is an art-based MMO.

I think Town of Salem, a crafting MMO, is still around.

You can always play Star Stable and ride horses, too!

And there are some golf/fishing other sports-related MMO's that I can't think of the names off the top of my head.

Shit, I used to know a ton more, but there are a fair number of small MMO's that are either not combat focused or have no real combat at all. They're smaller affairs with small budgets, there's sadly not a lot of money in a non-combat based game, but they're out there.

Though even with most of the combat-focused MMO's, there are still plenty of non-combat gameplay opportunities. Even if you're not specifically into RPing or anything.

[gondrin]

Honestly, Minecraft with official Mojang moderated servers would be perfect.

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Kind of. I get that fantasy blacksmiths would probably have to go fight whatever is guarding the really rare treasure. It's just that going to the ultimate dungeons to fight literal gods in order to unlock the best gear to craft like WoW does...not so much. Stardew Valley wasn't bad, honestly. That but open world and more things to do other than farming.

Well, there is A Tale in the Desert. It is a social MMO that has no combat whatsoever. Everything is player made and it plays like an MMO, just without the power creep.

[Ryytikki]

Play ultima online. Full crafter character. You make stuff people who combat or furniture for houses etc. So many possibilities.
There is still one big community, free server.

this is funny to me because theres a whole video on how players destroyed one of the game's features by being too murderous

A great watch

[PACOX]

I'm not too familiar with survival/open world/sandbox games but don't some of them fill the niche you are looking for?

I played Dark Ages as a kid (not DAoC). A 2D game that had a had a lot of RP, with community ran religions and governments. There was like 3 or so nations with their own laws and governments. You could become a part of the executive or legislative branch. There was a lot of RP involved to become part of the government (anyone could do it though). Break a law and you were barred from the region, sometimes locked out of essential features (why the system was taken somewhat seriously) You needed a 'mentor' just to pick a class and some classes required a player-teacher to learn skills. I remember joining a religion/temple involved being vetted by a player (which usually involved some some of RP test). It was a neat game. Even the chat system autocorrects some phrases you type to be 'in character'. It's technically still around but not worth playing.

[Astator]

Yep. A Tale in the Desert is a decent MMO with zero combat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Tale_in_the_Desert

[jackofwind]

Honestly, Minecraft with official Mojang moderated servers would be perfect.

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Kind of. I get that fantasy blacksmiths would probably have to go fight whatever is guarding the really rare treasure. It's just that going to the ultimate dungeons to fight literal gods in order to unlock the best gear to craft like WoW does...not so much. Stardew Valley wasn't bad, honestly. That but open world and more things to do other than farming.

Crowfall has classes entirely devoted to supplying their faction of the MMO war effort with better and better crafted gear, fortifications, siege weapons, etc. The game definitely is combat oriented as it's large scale faction vs faction, but there are purely support roles you can play (they can fight if need be, but their progression is about crafting).

[Cracked]

Runescape did it. Auto-attacking and occasionally eating food was as hard as it got. There were dozens of non-combat related skills, each of which take weeks if not months to max, and that's IF you have the resources. The challenge was there for those who wanted it, there were bosses that required positioning and even tick-perfect reactions, but those bosses were rare and everything they dropped could be sold. Players dedicated to crafting could use the billions of gold their skills made to buy this rare boss loot, they never had to go into a dungeon. The trouble is the way the game expanded. Old School Runescape lets players vote in everything added to the game. The developers have released tons of potential new non-combat skills, but none ever got added. But all kinds of dungeons and bosses were added, and even new things related to skilling were intense, sometimes dangerous, or just gated behind hard quests. The focus shifted, and it's unlikely to ever change.

That's all a game needs to do, different options you can build your character around, with combat just being one small aspect of it. Runescape was one of the most popular MMOs of all time, and barely anyone was fighting level 800 bosses and mastering prayer-flicking. They were cutting trees, building houses, and fishing.

It was also a different time. But I still ask, what's the goal for someone "with billions of gold", even if they can buy the best gear? What's the gear for, if not for slaying bigger dragons? Same problem that even some combat based MMOs have, like Black Desert, where there is no real group focused content. Like, yeah, you can farm for softcap max level and highest level gear, but what's it for? There is nothing waiting at the end except more of the same with no alterations.

[PACOX]

That's just the thing. It's not compelling to begin with. How exactly do you see it play out without combat or minimal combat? What's the goal? What's the power progression, outside of arbitrary skill point gating? If you are a merchant, what's your profit for? If you are a crafter, what's the items you make for? Minecraft I get, the goal is to build cool shit. Player building has proven to simply not work in a long term persistent mmo world, on top of being incredibly hard to make engaging while making sure it doesn't break the game mechanics completely.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to me like the genre you are asking for doesn't exist because it's impossible to design. Those things are simply at odds with one another.

I've been watching streamers play a game called Eco. The basic premise is that the world exists on persistent server. Everything in the world is connected to the system, so most actions have some kind of impact. The world is a sandbox where players mold a working society. The motivators are not messing up the ecosystem, soft capping the game and an impending meteor heading towards the planet, the hard cap. You want to build a society capable of destroying the meteor since if the hits your world is screwed.