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  1. #181
    While I think it would be cool to play a Venthyr, I'm pretty clueless on what blizz is planning. However, I think I know one way they could be made to fit the story.

    There are hints that the next big threat will be the void and/or the light, and the light has already begun encroaching on the Shadowlands. The Covenants joining us in the struggle against void & light seems plausible, tbh. But an allied race has to have a reason to come to Azeroth, I hear you cry! Not necessarily. It's unknown how the levelling system will work after SL, but one option is that we reset to 50 at every expac launch. Fresh characters now canonically go to Exile's Reach and then to Kul Tiras and Zandalar. Next expac would then either set the Shadowlands as the new default, or retain BfA zones while adding SL to chromie time.

    Enter covenant allied races: they start at level 10 like all other SL races, and default to SL content even if BfA remains the default. When they reach 50, they go to the new zones like everybody else, which is in the thick of the fight against the void (and light). Covenant races *can* enter Azeroth and even level there, but canonically they don't. If they come to Orgrimmar or Stormwind it's as just that, allied troops in our fight against the void (and light).

    And the expac after that they're legacy content and are mentioned about as often as the Vulpera or Draenei are.

    (Yes, joining covenants as that race will be silly. Yes, you can already see that by levelling a Kul Tiran in Kul Tiras, they still call you "mainlander" constantly.)

    edit: This can be "the thing" next prepatch. When we're all done with SL and are just waiting for the next one, they launch four new allied races and reset us to level 50, letting us again level new alts for the next expansion.
    Last edited by paxen; 2021-01-21 at 02:09 PM.

  2. #182
    I want the owls. Please.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    I want the owls. Please.
    Kyrian moonkin form

  4. #184
    I agree that the Shadowlands races have no motivation to join the Horde or Alliance.

    There could be Azerothian races that would want to join the factions now that they have access to the realm of Death. Any races that may have had necromancers or worshiped death gods. I'm thinking races like:

    - Vrykul
    - Ogres
    - Nerubians
    - Grimtotem
    - Blood Trolls
    - Quilboar

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by paxen View Post
    Kyrian moonkin form
    More like a racial trait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Futhark View Post
    I agree that the Shadowlands races have no motivation to join the Horde or Alliance.

    There could be Azerothian races that would want to join the factions now that they have access to the realm of Death. Any races that may have had necromancers or worshiped death gods. I'm thinking races like:

    - Vrykul
    - Ogres
    - Nerubians
    - Grimtotem
    - Blood Trolls
    - Quilboar
    Vrykul are a highly plausible possibility. There are males and females. Legion gave them updated textures and animations (males more than females). The Kyrian use the female Vrykul skeleton so, if they end up being playable, there's a high chance Vrykul do, as well.

    Ogres are, also, a highly plausible possibility. They have been part of the many variations of the Horde, since its inception.
    Mag'har Orcs bring with them, from alternate Draenor, the Stonemaul clan of Ogres.
    Rexxar uses the male Kul Tiran skeleton which, could be applied to playable Ogres.
    Maldraxxian Gladiators use a modified Ogre skeleton for males and female Kul Tiran skeleton for females. This could be another, potential, solution.

    Nerubians are, highly, unlikely as they walk on four legs.

    Grimtotems are, definitely, a possibility - either as customization or an allied race. Blizzard has, already, hinted at them with Torkhan:


    Blood Trolls would be an, extremely, cool option. and i mean, extremely. Blizzard have, outright, said they don't plan to add them as an allied race. And they didn't end up as a customization option in Shadowlands. But, they use the Troll skeleton so, that wouldn't be a problem.

    Quilboar, although they got updated textures and a female model in BfA, are unlikely as they are mortal enemies of the Tauren. The Alliance wouldn't want them as they are too brutish and primtive, like the Orcs. They are more of a gimmick mob, like Gnolls, Kobolds, Troggs and Centaur.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    They don't need to be resurrected. They can exist as undead in the mortal realm.



    Kul Tirans had something like 4 faces before they were added.

    Then, you forget the Tortollan and Ankoan of BfA, which had little to no facial animations, even though they are a recent addition.

    Like choom posted above, they were given multiple customization options like, hairstyles, hair colors, skin colors etc. There's absolutely no need for it, if they are, merely, NPCs.

    No. The reason they made some into Allied races and some into customization option lies in the differences between them. While Dark Iron Dwarves are different from the Bronzebeards, Wildhammer are not distinct enough.



    Not gonna happen. They are going Horde. They are way too similar to Orcs in culture.



    I do understand.
    You have Forsaken undead and undead Death Knights in the world of the living.
    You have elementals from the elemental planes in the world of the living.
    You have Demons from the twisting nether in the world of the living.
    You have aberrations from outside of reality in the world of the living.

    These races can venture outside of the Shadowlands. The Kyrians, already, ferry souls from the world of the living into the world of the dead. Draka and her mentor ventured into a demonic world to gather intel and steal some things.



    The forsaken use their own decomposed body.

    Elementals don't have souls as far as we know, neither do demons or void aberrations.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Beings from another plane of existence should not join the mortal factions. It's as if angels were real in our world and they would suddenly join the American army to participate in some petty squabble with another country. Why?
    I agree that no shadowlands races should be playable, but your argument is overly simplistic. It's a game where demons are from space, and gods and demigods that are a mixture of the divine (Elune) and titanic (literally, titans) regularly take sides. If you think it's crazy that an 'angel' would take a side in mortal affairs, surely you would think a literal demigod like Cenarius doing the same thing would be ludicrous (keep in mind that while his character model is half night elf, that he is in fact not a night elf).

    I don't think Shadowlands races being playable is a good idea, and I hope it won't happen... but the reasons you give are at odds with what Blizzard has already proven they are ok with doing.
    I think I've had enough of removing avatars today that feature girls covered in semen. Closing.
    -Darsithis

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    The forsaken use their own decomposed body.

    Elementals don't have souls as far as we know, neither do demons or void aberrations.
    So? Kyrian, Sylvar, Venthyr and Necrolords have physical bodies, as well.

    Demon souls are bound to the Twisting Nether. As such, when demons are slain in the physical world, their soul returns to the Nether where they recuperate and reform a new body.

    What do souls have to do with anything?

  9. #189
    Honestly, I agree, they aren't that good looking. The venthyr have the opposite issue to the blood elves. People always accusing the Belfs of not having males in the race ... well the venthyr have no females. >_>;

    Honestly, I'd rather play the stoneborn and be a gargoyle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Have you seen my posts over the past few days? You should be asking yourself why I'm alive, not why I don't have friends.
    Change is inevitable, Growth is optional.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    Honestly, I agree, they aren't that good looking. The venthyr have the opposite issue to the blood elves. People always accusing the Belfs of not having males in the race ... well the venthyr have no females. >_>;

    Honestly, I'd rather play the stoneborn and be a gargoyle.
    Tauren would like a word with you regarding gender representation lol.
    I think I've had enough of removing avatars today that feature girls covered in semen. Closing.
    -Darsithis

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    The forsaken use their own decomposed body.

    Elementals don't have souls as far as we know, neither do demons or void aberrations.
    Shadowlands creates a body for them...the anima seeds are at least 1 example of this and I'm sure something within Maldraxus also does.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    Honestly, I agree, they aren't that good looking. The venthyr have the opposite issue to the blood elves. People always accusing the Belfs of not having males in the race ... well the venthyr have no females. >_>;

    Honestly, I'd rather play the stoneborn and be a gargoyle.
    Considering they don't reproduce why does it really matter? Also I honestly recall seeing plenty of females so not quite sure where you're getting that. They tend to actually be more in the upper class though. I mean hell the majority of the most powerful venthyr are female.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    So? Kyrian, Sylvar, Venthyr and Necrolords have physical bodies, as well.

    Demon souls are bound to the Twisting Nether. As such, when demons are slain in the physical world, their soul returns to the Nether where they recuperate and reform a new body.

    What do souls have to do with anything?
    They have physical bodies in the shadowlands, not in Azeroth.

    Demons and the Nether has nothing to do with the souls in the shadowlands. Demons work differently. Looking at them, their bodies disappear when killed. This says that they are in a shallow form when outside the nether.

    Dude, whatever. I tried to tell you. You don't want to listen, so be it. I am not gonna have a back and forth when this is so obvious.

    If people can just die, go to the shadowlands, get a new body and take a portal back to azeroth, the whole lore gets broken and there is no point to any of the events outside the shadowlands. It would literally break WoW. I don't see it happening.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Shadowlands creates a body for them...the anima seeds are at least 1 example of this and I'm sure something within Maldraxus also does.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Considering they don't reproduce why does it really matter? Also I honestly recall seeing plenty of females so not quite sure where you're getting that. They tend to actually be more in the upper class though. I mean hell the majority of the most powerful venthyr are female.
    I think that ardenweald stuff only applies to wild god lifeforms. You don't see druids coming back to life that way. Only wild gods.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    They have physical bodies in the shadowlands, not in Azeroth.

    Demons and the Nether has nothing to do with the souls in the shadowlands. Demons work differently. Looking at them, their bodies disappear when killed. This says that they are in a shallow form when outside the nether.

    Dude, whatever. I tried to tell you. You don't want to listen, so be it. I am not gonna have a back and forth when this is so obvious.

    If people can just die, go to the shadowlands, get a new body and take a portal back to azeroth, the whole lore gets broken and there is no point to any of the events outside the shadowlands. It would literally break WoW. I don't see it happening.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think that ardenweald stuff only applies to wild god lifeforms. You don't see druids coming back to life that way. Only wild gods.
    .....Ysera isn't a wild god and much less really isn't even a dragon aspect as she once was. You also don't need to be a druid fyi as I'm pretty sure Thiernax doesn't sound like he was a druid in his past. It really doesn't matter as it is evidence of them creating form for a spirit though.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    They have physical bodies in the shadowlands, not in Azeroth.

    Demons and the Nether has nothing to do with the souls in the shadowlands. Demons work differently. Looking at them, their bodies disappear when killed. This says that they are in a shallow form when outside the nether.

    Dude, whatever. I tried to tell you. You don't want to listen, so be it. I am not gonna have a back and forth when this is so obvious.

    If people can just die, go to the shadowlands, get a new body and take a portal back to azeroth, the whole lore gets broken and there is no point to any of the events outside the shadowlands. It would literally break WoW. I don't see it happening.

    They still possess a physical body outside of the Shadowlands. The Kyrians don't turn into little souls when coming to Azeroth to collect a soul. Draka and her mentor did not lose their physical bodies when venturing to Nathreza.

    It's not like that. The veil has, already, been broken. Some of them will come with us back to Azeroth before the veil closes, much like alternate Draenor's portal. It doesn't mean there will be an infinite access between the two worlds in lore. Just gameplay (like having portals in Oribos).

  15. #195
    Lots of people say that they wouldn't like the SL races to appear on Azeroth. While I agree to an extent, I don't think that has much impact at all on if blizz will make them playable or not - adding cool stuff trumps consistency, or so blizzard has often appeared to think.

    If all four becomes playable in a later patch, with some fig leaf that they "canonically" do not enter azeroth (as all current content is in Shadowlands), how would you feel about that?

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Kyrian and Night Fae NPCs already make several references to 'wanting to visit our world some day', it will happen.

    The Maldraxxus people look much more interesting than they do in-game, I think they have decent potential. Under the hood, the Gladiators have skeletal features too, just with non-skeletal bodies. Compared to Kyrians, Venthyr and Sylvar the Gladiators are the least developed but the art for Margrave Krexus is really cool.

    To be 100% honest I'm not entirely sure if by the end of this expansion our characters are going to be able to visit the shadowlands in universe or even if they will remember it. I imagine that from a story standpoint the veil will be re-sealed at which point only the "natives" of the shadowlands and necromancers will be able to travel back and forth between it at which point it will be kind of like WoD draenor where we can technically go there in game, but in universe it's basically falling apart and next to impossible to get back to.

    The alternative is it creates some weird in universe plot holes where heroes just casually throw themselves into danger because they can just die and come back later as a (potentially) more powerful outsider, or the mortal races judging someone guilty of X, then creating excursions back into the shadowlands to find where that soul was judged so the can just perma-kill it, completely bypassing it's cosmic judgement.

    In a lot of ways shadowlands afterlives mirror the afterlives in the forgotten realms, where you're sent to the grey city to be judged by kelemvor and then sent to an afterlife based on your alignment where you spend some time as a petitioner before eventually becoming one of the outsiders native to that plane that can come and go based on need. Technically these planes are all accessible to mortals powerful enough to teleport there at any time, but the main difference between the shadowlands and the afterlives of the forgotten realms is that in the FR, when you *leave* one of the realms where judged souls go, the deity presiding over that realm also typically takes most of your memories of your visit away. I would imagine that by the end of shadowlands a system similar to this will end up in place.

  17. #197
    The Unstoppable Force DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    How are the Venthyr any more out of place than any other whimsical race on this crazy mf planet.

    We have Minotaurs, Zombies, Elves, Trolls, Dwarves, Garden Gnomes, Space Goats, Werewolves, and somehow stereotypical Vampires 'make no sense?'

    They'll make Azeroth their problem because she is the secret special secret of the First Ones.
    Because, again, the Venthyr are not born of the mortal plane of existence. They're literally from a different damned dimension, outside of time and space.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
    Your job is to rehabilitate inmates. Do you stop someone on the street and tell them their behavior is unacceptable?
    A job someone chooses to pursue in real life is a little different from a supposed afterlife granted to someone after they have spent millennia atoning for their sins.

    This isn't the Venthyr's job, it's their very being. Their nature.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    why would they fucking care? lmao, is not his business, is the arbiter stuff

    besides, the player just care jack hit about other players and npcs, they are not bound to a specific duty cause we saw tons of then just saying fuck this duty and siding with the Janitor, they can do what they want
    Not exactly, but I digress.

    They are following Denathrius, a damned First One.
    Or is it Eternal One?

    This one that one...
    "A flower.
    Yes. Upon your return, I will gift you a beautiful flower."

    "Remember. Remember... that we once lived..."

    Quote Originally Posted by mmocd061d7bab8 View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  18. #198
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    I don't think any SL race should become an AR for lore reasons. I can't see many Venthyr wanting to expand on their sinstone or Sylvar leave their forest duties for meaningless battle. That's also ignoring that the denizens already consist of a mix of both factions' races + other words.
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  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post

    They still possess a physical body outside of the Shadowlands. The Kyrians don't turn into little souls when coming to Azeroth to collect a soul. Draka and her mentor did not lose their physical bodies when venturing to Nathreza.

    It's not like that. The veil has, already, been broken. Some of them will come with us back to Azeroth before the veil closes, much like alternate Draenor's portal. It doesn't mean there will be an infinite access between the two worlds in lore. Just gameplay (like having portals in Oribos).
    How do you know the bodies work outside the shadowlands? They did lose their original bodies and they are souls. They got judged by the arbiter and get given a corpse of their choice. This corpse is a shadowlands corpse. We don't know if it works the same outside.
    The only example we have are wild gods and they seem to be the exception, not the rule.

    When we went with the kyrian to Azeroth, she was not in the physical realm, she was still in the plane of the dead. The one we go to when we die and are ghosts. She did not manifest on the physical world. Only our character did. That is a requirement for an allied race. They must exist in the physical world of azeroth. I don't think the shadowlands body does that. At least, it hasn't been shown to yet.

    Nathreza we hear is in the Nether.

    There might be a way around it, and it's possible a character or another can come back for some reason. But, a whole covenant race? I don't see it.

    Theres a lot of loops to overcome for what you want. Even if the rift is closed, a whole race is not gonna come through. The covenants have a role in the shadowlands. They don't care about Azeroth wars.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-01-22 at 06:30 PM.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    Because, again, the Venthyr are not born of the mortal plane of existence. They're literally from a different damned dimension, outside of time and space.

    - - - Updated - - -


    A job someone chooses to pursue in real life is a little different from a supposed afterlife granted to someone after they have spent millennia atoning for their sins.

    This isn't the Venthyr's job, it's their very being. Their nature.
    Well, so are demons. Do they have no place in the mortal realm?

    If you're being raised to be a catholic priest your whole life, to preach the essence of your belief, can you not break away from it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I don't think any SL race should become an AR for lore reasons. I can't see many Venthyr wanting to expand on their sinstone or Sylvar leave their forest duties for meaningless battle. That's also ignoring that the denizens already consist of a mix of both factions' races + other words.
    It's not all battles. They want to visit Azeroth. Much like how the Pandaren wanted to explore outside their island boundaries. They joined the factions, after remaining neutral for most of the time.

    They are a race of their own now. Not a mix of races.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    How do you know the bodies work outside the shadowlands? They did lose their original bodies and they are souls. They got judged by the arbiter and get given a corpse of their choice. This corpse is a shadowlands corpse. We don't know if it works the same outside.
    The only example we have are wild gods and they seem to be the exception, not the rule.

    When we went with the kyrian to Azeroth, she was not in the physical realm, she was still in the plane of the dead. The one we go to when we die and are ghosts. She did not manifest on the physical world. Only our character did. That is a requirement for an allied race. They must exist in the physical world of azeroth. I don't think the shadowlands body does that. At least, it hasn't been shown to yet.

    Nathreza we hear is in the Nether.

    There might be a way around it, and it's possible a character or another can come back for some reason. But, a whole covenant race? I don't see it.

    Theres a lot of loops to overcome for what you want. Even if the rift is closed, a whole race is not gonna come through. The covenants have a role in the shadowlands. They don't care about Azeroth wars.
    When Devos comes to pick up Arthas, does she look like a soul or an angel?

    When Draka goes to a demon world, does she look like a soul or like herself?

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