Wyoming GOP chairman floats secession after Cheney votes to impeach Trump

[lagiacrux]

is there a legal way for a state to leave the union? afaik no ...

so everytime they talk about secession i just laugh because the only ways would be because the US allowed it (which i highly doubt) or armed rebellion (just, lol).

[Tazkar]

I-70 is not built to handle the traffic increase it would see, and it would be very very expensive (and perhaps environmentally prohibitive) to increase it. It cost the equivalent of $75 million per mile to build through Glenwood Canyon, and it wasn't completed until the early 90s.

While not currently built in a manner that allows super high speed, I-70 could definitely be expanded in ways for increased traffic. I've driven the route it takes through the rockies more than once and there is definitely room for them to expand it if necessary. Would have to cut new or expand the existing tunnels, which honestly that is not hard at all with the machinery we have now a days.

My basic point is, that while at current I-80 is a very convenient artery for traffic, if Wyoming did secede that alone isn't going to give them any leverage. As the U.S could just expand infrastructure elsewhere. And you do realize how many cities would jump on the funding of such projects if it meant an increase of traffic and goods in and out of their cities? Basically all of them.

[gondrin]

While not currently built in a manner that allows super high speed, I-70 could definitely be expanded in ways for increased traffic. I've driven the route it takes through the rockies more than once and there is definitely room for them to expand it if necessary. Would have to cut new or expand the existing tunnels, which honestly that is not hard at all with the machinery we have now a days.

My basic point is, that while at current I-80 is a very convenient artery for traffic, if Wyoming did secede that alone isn't going to give them any leverage. As the U.S could just expand infrastructure elsewhere. And you do realize how many cities would jump on the funding of such projects if it meant an increase of traffic and goods in and out of their cities? Basically all of them.

And then we would have Infrastructure Week, brought to you by Joe Biden.

[Kellhound]

I've already stated it would not be an overnight thing. Yeah, it would take time and money.

As for the $30 billion...that's really not a lot of money. Wyoming is already a "taker" state...so they just move the money around.

And yes, we're assuming no other state joins with Wyoming...because the whole idea is that Wyoming wouldn't be able to stand alone. If they need other states to go with them...than that just proves the case.



The US is yes.

But Wyoming would no longer be part of the US.

New Country, New Treaty.

10 years of constrained transportation would cause massive issues.

The treat is open for any country to join, no new treaty needed.

[Felya]

The treat is open for any country to join, no new treaty needed.

That’s like arguing that nothing changes due to Brexit... lol

[Kellhound]

That's nice.

Now do how much money it would take Wyoming to set itself up as an independent polity and whether or not its tax base of two white dudes and a sheep can afford it on top of the 1/50th of the federal debt they'd be taking with them since you guys are all about a flat percentage rather than means adjustment just like with taxes, right?

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Let's be real.

Any red state making a serious attempt to secede would play out exactly like Brexit in that the seceding state will probably be plagued by political incompetence and end up cutting a bad deal with the remaining US and desperately trying to spin it as a token win.

Wyoming has a pretty good GDP per capita actually.

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Noooo but you see Wyoming would cost at least thirty billion dollars to bypass so all Wyoming needs to do is make a nuisance of themselves to the point that amount is more cost effective than — wait... /s

That feel when “if you dare ask for higher wages you’ll be replaced by a robot that’s cheaper” ends up biting the Republicans in the ass, rofl.

It wouldn't. Even after it was bypassed, it would still cost more to use the new routes going forward.

[Elegiac]

It wouldn't. Even after it was bypassed, it would still cost more to use the new routes going forward.

Which is entirely besides the point since the actual point was about relative bargaining positions and that there is a fixed threshold of annoyance before alternatives become more cost effective.

You're literally throwing out the same arguments Brexiteers are using, hun. Look how that's turning out for them.

[Kellhound]

While not currently built in a manner that allows super high speed, I-70 could definitely be expanded in ways for increased traffic. I've driven the route it takes through the rockies more than once and there is definitely room for them to expand it if necessary. Would have to cut new or expand the existing tunnels, which honestly that is not hard at all with the machinery we have now a days.

My basic point is, that while at current I-80 is a very convenient artery for traffic, if Wyoming did secede that alone isn't going to give them any leverage. As the U.S could just expand infrastructure elsewhere. And you do realize how many cities would jump on the funding of such projects if it meant an increase of traffic and goods in and out of their cities? Basically all of them.

You would have to enlarge the largest Interstate tunnel, figure out how to add capacity to Glenwood Canyon that was environmentally acceptable and wouldn't cost over $100 million a mile and take over 10 years to complete.

There is not a great deal of options to add capacity through the Rockies, the good passes are already in use. You might be able to reopen the old Milwaukee Road Pacific Extension after kicking the new land owners off, and Tennessee Pass at least has most of its rails in place in Colorado, but that still wouldn't do it.

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That’s like arguing that nothing changes due to Brexit... lol

UK's overflight rights didn't change from Brexit.

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Which is entirely besides the point since the actual point was about relative bargaining positions and that there is a fixed threshold of annoyance before alternatives become more cost effective.

You're literally throwing out the same arguments Brexiteers are using, hun. Look how that's turning out for them.

It would take a great deal of annoyance.

[Elegiac]

It would take a great deal of annoyance.

Yeah, and I'm saying Wyoming doesn't have the capacity to deliver an annoyance that the US can't withstand in the same way the UK's bargaining position relative to the EU is laughable.

That's also assuming the first thing that doesn't happen is Wyoming electing a conservative government that sells off all its public assets to corporations headquartered in New York or San Francisco anyway.

[Tazkar]

You would have to enlarge the largest Interstate tunnel, figure out how to add capacity to Glenwood Canyon that was environmentally acceptable and wouldn't cost over $100 million a mile and take over 10 years to complete.

There is not a great deal of options to add capacity through the Rockies, the good passes are already in use. You might be able to reopen the old Milwaukee Road Pacific Extension after kicking the new land owners off, and Tennessee Pass at least has most of its rails in place in Colorado, but that still wouldn't do it.

Basic point remains, it could be done. You keep bringing up different issues as if they nullify the capability of doing it, when it really doesn't. There are options to circumventing I-80 if needed, and they can be done.

[Felya]

UK's overflight rights didn't change from Brexit.

Let’s hope Wyoming gets the same deal with US, as it Britain did with EU, upon its exit... I somehow doubt US would be forgiving and kind to a treasonable, landlocked country, within its borders...

[Elegiac]

Let’s hope Wyoming gets the same deal with US, as it Britain did with EU, upon its exit... I somehow doubt US would be forgiving and kind to a treasonable, landlocked country, within its borders...

Also, there was literally a month long period in the news revolving around a potential crisis with airline access post-Brexit before that got resolved like... Y'all. The clownery is real.

[Kellhound]

Basic point remains, it could be done. You keep bringing up different issues as if they nullify the capability of doing it, when it really doesn't. There are options to circumventing I-80 if needed, and they can be done.

It could be done, but not as easily as you seem to think.

[Felya]

Also, there was literally a month long period in the news revolving around a potential crisis with airline access post-Brexit before that got resolved like... Y'all. The clownery is real.

It’s top products are coal, natural gas and crude... after mining, its second biggest economy is tourism... I will repeat... it’s second largest economic engine is tourism to Wyoming... is there any wonder they had the 50th largest state economy in 2016.

Just two questions based on the above... Who is going to go out of the country, to visit Wyoming? How will Wyoming deal with America going energy independent, when it’s their biggest industry and they have no way to economically deliver their energy anywhere else?

What will they have, as an independent country?

[Elegiac]

It’s top products are coal, natural gas and crude... after mining, its second biggest economy is tourism... I will repeat... it’s second largest economic engine is tourism to Wyoming... is there any wonder they had the 50th largest state economy in 2016.

Just two questions based on the above... Who is going to go out of the country, to visit Wyoming? How will Wyoming deal with America going energy independent, when it’s their biggest industry and they have no way to economically deliver their energy anywhere else... What will they have, as an independent country?

But no see here's why a state of less than half a million people that's primarily dependent on a dying energy market and tourism will totally be able to pressure the rest of the US for a deal in its favor. /s

More of the same "hurr hurr ignorant city dwellers can't grow a stalk of corn" nonsense that shows a superficial understanding of society and government. Rural conservatives go to civics class challenge.

[Egomaniac]

UK's overflight rights didn't change from Brexit.

The UK's sovereignty didn't change.

Wyoming and the US would have to establish an air transport agreement.

[Felya]

But no see here's why a state of less than half a million people that's primarily dependent on a dying energy market and tourism will totally be able to pressure the rest of the US for a deal in its favor. /s

I might be over doing it... but... tourism to Wyoming... getting a passport... to go to Wyoming... lol

Edit: They would be the Evil Luxembourg... the map would have a goat t over the state...

[Kellhound]

The UK's sovereignty didn't change.

Wyoming and the US would have to establish an air transport agreement.

All Wyoming has to do is sign the international treat that the US also signed and the US cannot prevent civilian overflight of US territory.

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I might be over doing it... but... tourism to Wyoming... getting a passport... to go to Wyoming... lol

Hell of a lot nicer place to visit than most of the rest of the country.

[Egomaniac]

It could be done, but not as easily as you seem to think.

I don't believe anyone has said it would be done easily.

But it does remind me of this:

[Elegiac]

All Wyoming has to do is sign the international treat that the US also signed and the US cannot prevent civilian overflight of US territory.

Aren't you the same folks claiming that international treaties ultimately don't matter because the US can do what it wants by virtue of being the strongest whenever we point out the invasion of Iraq was and remains illegal? *whistles innocently*