If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Ielenia]

The Tinker abilities from HotS are not engineering abilities because they don't exist in engineering.

I've already demonstrated that they're represented in the profession, though:
• "Engineering upgrade" is represented by the "tinkering" section of the profession.
• "Pocket Factory" is represented by goblin bomb dispenser.
• "Robo-goblin" is represented by reaves' piloting module.
• "Cluster Rockets" is represented by the many rockets the profession has.

Are you trying to say that engineering items are actually abilities via your personal lore (head canon)?

It's funny how you try to mock me by calling my arguments "head canon" yet you engage in headcanon over and over, and worse, state it as fact.

[Revamp Man]

Plate int-based melee dual-wielding wand specialist.

power rangers mystic force

[Teriz]

I've already demonstrated that they're represented in the profession, though:
• "Engineering upgrade" is represented by the "tinkering" section of the profession.
• "Pocket Factory" is represented by goblin bomb dispenser.
• "Robo-goblin" is represented by reaves' piloting module.
• "Cluster Rockets" is represented by the many rockets the profession has.

And this is entirely your opinion, not supported by any facts whatsoever.

I mean you'd have to be pretty silly to believe that this;

Creates a factory which automatically constructs Clockwerk Goblins. Clockwerk Goblins explode upon death, causing damage to nearby enemy units.

Is represented as this;

Use: Creates a mobile bomb that charges the nearest enemy and explodes for 315 to 385 fire damage. (30 Min Cooldown)

But hey, at this point it's about what I expect.

It's funny how you try to mock me by calling my arguments "head canon" yet you engage in headcanon over and over, and worse, state it as fact.

What you typed above is a prime example of what I'm talking about.

[Ielenia]

And this is entirely your opinion, not supported by any facts whatsoever.

Other than the fact that those features behave very much like the abilities from Warcraft 3.

I mean you'd have to be pretty silly to believe that this;

This is highly ironic coming from the guy who posited the idea that our player characters are somehow super-powered mutants that do not need to eat or drink or sleep at all.

Is represented as this;

But hey, at this point it's about what I expect.

First: notice how I never said "1:1". Second: the concepts are largely the same.

What you typed above is a prime example of what I'm talking about.

Doesn't change the fact that you mock other people's arguments by calling them "headcanon" while engaging in headcanon yourself and stating them as facts.

[threads]

monks based off panda lore -> unpopular
tinker based off gnomes -> also will be unpopular

[Teriz]

Other than the fact that those features behave very much like the abilities from Warcraft 3.

Creating a factory and creating a bomb are not similar in any fashion whatsoever.

First: notice how I never said "1:1". Second: the concepts are largely the same.

Of course its not 1:1, or even close to any level of similarity. If it were you would have to use actual facts to justify your argument instead of simply your opinion.

Doesn't change the fact that you mock other people's arguments by calling them "headcanon" while engaging in headcanon yourself and stating them as facts.

I'm using gameplay facts since the lore to support your "argument" doesn't exist. Nowhere in the lore (or by blizzard) does it state that the Tinker was placed into the engineering profession. Unlike how the Necromancer concept was placed within the Death Knight class (a fact you deny btw). Nope, all we have is your personal head canon based on nothing more than your personal beliefs and semantics.

You seriously wonder why I mock your arguments when you're pushing nonsense like that? Anyway, feel free to have the last word. I'm not going to "debate" with someone who doesn't know the difference between an item and an ability (or a factory and a bomb).

- - - Updated - - -

monks based off panda lore -> unpopular
tinker based off gnomes -> also will be unpopular

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-for-the-game
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...W-class-in-9-0

Yeah seriously.

[Ielenia]

Creating a factory and creating a bomb are not similar in any fashion whatsoever.

What does the factory itself create?

Of course its not 1:1

Then stop behaving like I did.

If it were you would have to use actual facts

I am. You just don't like those facts, and try to dismiss them as "headcanon".

I'm using gameplay facts since the lore to support your "argument" doesn't exist.

I didn't even mention lore, here.

Nowhere in the lore (or by blizzard) does it state that the Tinker was placed into the engineering profession.

One section of the engineering profession is called "tinkering". One reagent that the engineers use are "tinker's kit". Another enhancement they used to use was called "tinker's gear". And then we have Tinkerer Gizlock, a tinker who uses only engineering abilities. So I'd hardly say my claims have "no evidence".

You seriously wonder why I mock your arguments when you're pushing nonsense like that?

I'll repeat:

This is highly ironic coming from the guy who posited the idea that our player characters are somehow super-powered mutants that do not need to eat or drink or sleep at all.

Says the guy who proposed the idea that our player characters are somehow unique mutants that do not need food or water to survive and can be restored to full health by eating a single apple, unlike the overwhelming majority of characters in the lore. The irony and lack of self-awareness is palpable.

I'm not going to "debate" with someone who doesn't know the difference between an item and an ability (or a factory and a bomb).

"Item" and "ability" have no differences when they do the same action.

[Teriz]

"Item" and "ability" have no differences when they do the same action.

Creates a factory...

Creates a bomb...

Yeah, totally the same action....

[qwerty123456]

Right here;








Rock-It! Turret
25 yd range
Instant 10 sec recharge
2 Charges
Summons a Rock-It! Turret at your feet for 15 sec that shoots rockets at a nearby enemy within 25 yards every 2 sec, dealing 3 Fire damage.

Find an engineering item that does the exact same thing as that ability. Range, cooldown, charges, etc.

And yes I remember the Herbalism heal. What does that have to do with this conversation where you're trying to say that an item is the same as an ability?



And that changes the fact that items aren't the same as abilities how exactly?

- - - Updated - - -



The Tinker abilities from HotS are not engineering abilities because they don't exist in engineering. Are you trying to say that engineering items are actually abilities via your personal lore (head canon)?

"Under no circumstance does items serve the same overall function and purpose as class abilities." Nothing you say here says its supposed to be a replacement for an ability. You said the same overall function and purpose. The function and purpose of a stealth ability is to prevent you from being a seen. The function and purpose of a slow fall is to make you fall slow. The function and purpose of a damage skill is to do damage to something. How dense are you?

Is Rock-It! Turret a class ability? No it's not. Why are you trying to bring in an npc's ability? You do realize Npc abilities don't equal player abilities do you? And by bringing it up you are actually proving my point that Blizzard balances everything based on its usage case? Heck even the same npc can have thier abilities scaled depending on how many players are ment to fight it.

Where something comes from doesn't change its purpose. You were the one that insisted they have different purposes.

Qwerty was arguing that it was my head canon that an engineering item doesn't do the same thing as a comparable skill. So s/he can find the engineering item that does the same thing as Rock-it turret.

And if it doesn't have the same range, cooldown, charges, etc. it doesn't serve the same purpose, nor does it have the same concept.

Because it is your head cannon. The purpose of a holy paladin and a resto shaman is to heal and yet neither of them are identical. Doing damage to something is doing damage to something that is its function. It's insane that you seem to still play the game and yet can't comprehend this when every expansion and level skills change the damage/healing/what ever they do. Some even change drastically like demonology locks.

Your not asking for something to have the same function as something else you are asking for a 1 for 1 clone of something which isn't something Blizzard does.

[TheRevenantHero]

Oh dear lord no. I get what you're saying, but that's a recipe for disaster. The tricky part is finding Alliance races that make any degree of sense. Kul Tirans are probably the most likely I'd guess. Dark Irons maybe? Worgen?

Horde side, both types of Trolls is obvious. Orcs? Forsaken? Goblins?

Unfortunately, for a shadow hunter to be playable it would HAVE to be troll only because in lore trolls absolutely refuse to teach other races voodoo.

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Creating a factory and creating a bomb are not similar in any fashion whatsoever.



Of course its not 1:1, or even close to any level of similarity. If it were you would have to use actual facts to justify your argument instead of simply your opinion.



I'm using gameplay facts since the lore to support your "argument" doesn't exist. Nowhere in the lore (or by blizzard) does it state that the Tinker was placed into the engineering profession. Unlike how the Necromancer concept was placed within the Death Knight class (a fact you deny btw). Nope, all we have is your personal head canon based on nothing more than your personal beliefs and semantics.

You seriously wonder why I mock your arguments when you're pushing nonsense like that? Anyway, feel free to have the last word. I'm not going to "debate" with someone who doesn't know the difference between an item and an ability (or a factory and a bomb).

- - - Updated - - -



https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-for-the-game
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...W-class-in-9-0

Yeah seriously.

The necromancer was 100% NOT folded into necromancer from a lore standpoint. There's plenty of necromancers that aren't death knights.

- - - Updated - - -

Qwerty was arguing that it was my head canon that an engineering item doesn't do the same thing as a comparable skill. So s/he can find the engineering item that does the same thing as Rock-it turret.

And if it doesn't have the same range, cooldown, charges, etc. it doesn't serve the same purpose, nor does it have the same concept.

They have the exact same function and purpose. Shoot ranged attacks to deal damage to enemies. Saying that if they don't have the same cooldown or range that they don't serve the same function and purpose would just be you moving goalposts as usual instead of just admitting you're wrong.

[Unbelievable]

There's some major issues with the class fantasy that I don't like about it whereas I'd definitely play a Monk class if styled around the Diablo 3 Monk. Something was definitely lost in translation here, both in the gameplay and the overall aesthetic.

Maybe, because the Diablo III Monk is light-based, rather than chinese based. His accent sounds more like a Draenei, than an asian. But, i totally agree. Windwalker Monk gameplay should take inspiration from it. For example, in HotS we have Chen representing the Brewmaster, Lili somewhat representing the Mistweaver and Karazhim is the only one left to represent the Windwalker Monk.

So who exactly should we be polling then? Where should we be polling these people?



It's less of an echo chamber than the official forums, since anyone could walk in here and vote. Again, is there a better place we should go to poll people?

Frankly, it sounds like you're making a bunch of excuses here.

Official Forums.
Players' E-mail adrresses, like the Level Squish survey.

Yes that's so. Out of 20 abilities Death Knights got about 3-4 abilities from the Lich King over the course of several expansions. Death Knights got more abilities than that from WC3 in WotLK.

And Unholy Frenzy came from WC3.



I didn't say that.



Whoop dee doo. Like I said, they were our allies and they were present, but MoP was hardly centered on them.



It wouldn't operate like a siege vehicle, it would operate like a Druid form. In other words, you would hit summon mech and you would hop in the mech and your mech abilities would be available. However it wouldn't be like vehicle controls, it would just be typical class controls. The thing is that they could have various mechanics to make the form feel like a vehicle.



Metamorphosis was a selling point for a Demon Hunter whether it was permanent or not. The point is that in nearly all of its iterations Metamorphosis was a temporary state, so obviously the class ability would also be temporary. The Tinker's mech state in all of its iterations have been permanent.



Actually no, the constant mech is derived from Robo Goblin in WC3. Look it up.



And there's that denialism I was talking about.....

- - - Updated - - -



I'm simply responding to people who are quoting my posts. People are free to bring up other classes in this topic if they wish.

That wasn't my point. My point was to expose your bias towards Island Expedition AI over Mekkatorque which, has no justification whatsoever.

You can't center an entire expansion over a race of goodie-two-shoes, especially having that kind of reception from the playerbase. Even the Orcs aesthetic in WoD got tiresome after a while.

Do you realize that by making it a form, you invalidate the gameplay of a Tinker outside of the mech form? What's the point in that?

Well, not in HotS it isn't. Otherwise, it wouldn't have a cooldown, and its benefits wouldn't last X seconds.

Yes but, unlike the WC3 Robo-Goblin which, has a downside, your flawless, permanent, mech comes from your fantasy to play as Iron Man. Players want to play inside a mech, as well as outside of it.

Denialism or not - knowing you and how you operate - I'd put my money on you "rigging the elections".

Well, no they're not. It's quickly being drowned by your constant ramble about Tinkers and you dismissing their ideas. So, this thread appears to be "democratic" but, it's actually governed by you. You just took control of someone else's thread

Sylvanas is the only character in WoW with her abilities because she is a banshee inhabiting her old body.

Which, was the case for every class before entering the game.

Guys, drop the Tinker talk please. Teriz is incapable of listening to anyone's point unless it supports his narrative. Just ignore him and lets talk about something else.

Well, you do the same thing (see above). What's the point?

How is a Tinker concept that follows the WC3 and HotS Tinker just like the previous three expansion classes have followed their WC3/HotS concepts incredibly restrictive and stupid? I’m just following the precedent set by Blizzard.

Blizzard's concept does not include the Vulpera.
Blizzard's concept does not invalidate the claw pack with a constant mech.
Blizzard's concept does not invalidate Gnomish Engineering.

Just like the Brewmaster vendors had none of the abilities that Brewmasters had in WC3. Just because they share the name doesn't mean they're the same thing.

Anyways, go ahead and have your conversations about other classes. Don't let me hold you back.

To anyone else in the thread, I won't respond to any more posts. I want you guys to have a fruitful class discussion.

Brewmaster vendors weren't Pandaren.

How about we talk about a Witch Doctor/Shadow Hunter class?

Yes!
How did you like my class concept in page 108?

I would fucking kill for a Shadow Hunter class.

- - - Updated - - -



Shadow Hunters are more like shamans, actually but have vastly different capabilities in a lot of ways. A class that finally utilizes voodoo as a power source would be fantastic.

Now, that's the spirit!
How'd you like my class concept in page 108?

I think the biggest issue is making something distinct enough so that it isn't just a variety of Shaman.

I love the idea. The Witch Doctor in D3 was frickin' awesome, and I'd love to see something stylistically like that in WoW. But that would step on the Shaman's toes quite a bit.

Alternately I'd love to see something based off of Bwonsamdi. I've never been a fan of Necromancers, but the sheer style and fun he brings could make for an amazing spin on a Necromancer/Witch Doctor type of class.

Look at my Shadow Hunter concept in page 108 and how i resolved the "stepping on the toes" in page 111.

Rock-It! Turret
25 yd range
Instant 10 sec recharge
2 Charges
Summons a Rock-It! Turret at your feet for 15 sec that shoots rockets at a nearby enemy within 25 yards every 2 sec, dealing 3 Fire damage.

Find an engineering item that does the exact same thing as that ability. Range, cooldown, charges, etc.

Gnomish Flame Turret
Item Level 27
Use: Quickly constructs a gnomish flame turret at your feet that will nearly always attack nearby enemies. The turret falls apart after 45 sec. (1 Min Cooldown)
Requires Level 24
Requires Outland Engineering (25)
Max Stack: 10

[Revamp Man]

Maybe, because the Diablo III Monk is light-based, rather than chinese based. His accent sounds more like a Draenei, than an asian. But, i totally agree. Windwalker Monk gameplay should take inspiration from it. For example, in HotS we have Chen representing the Brewmaster, Lili somewhat representing the Mistweaver and Karazhim is the only one left to represent the Windwalker Monk.



Official Forums.
Players' E-mail adrresses, like the Level Squish survey.



That wasn't my point. My point was to expose your bias towards Island Expedition AI over Mekkatorque which, has no justification whatsoever.

You can't center an entire expansion over a race of goodie-two-shoes, especially having that kind of reception from the playerbase. Even the Orcs aesthetic in WoD got tiresome after a while.

Do you realize that by making it a form, you invalidate the gameplay of a Tinker outside of the mech form? What's the point in that?

Well, not in HotS it isn't. Otherwise, it wouldn't have a cooldown, and its benefits wouldn't last X seconds.

Yes but, unlike the WC3 Robo-Goblin which, has a downside, your flawless, permanent, mech comes from your fantasy to play as Iron Man. Players want to play inside a mech, as well as outside of it.

Denialism or not - knowing you and how you operate - I'd put my money on you "rigging the elections".

Well, no they're not. It's quickly being drowned by your constant ramble about Tinkers and you dismissing their ideas. So, this thread appears to be "democratic" but, it's actually governed by you. You just took control of someone else's thread



Which, was the case for every class before entering the game.



Well, you do the same thing (see above). What's the point?



Blizzard's concept does not include the Vulpera.
Blizzard's concept does not invalidate the claw pack with a constant mech.
Blizzard's concept does not invalidate Gnomish Engineering.



Brewmaster vendors weren't Pandaren.



Yes!
How did you like my class concept in page 108?



Now, that's the spirit!
How'd you like my class concept in page 108?



Look at my Shadow Hunter concept in page 108 and how i resolved the "stepping on the toes" in page 111.



Gnomish Flame Turret
Item Level 27
Use: Quickly constructs a gnomish flame turret at your feet that will nearly always attack nearby enemies. The turret falls apart after 45 sec. (1 Min Cooldown)
Requires Level 24
Requires Outland Engineering (25)
Max Stack: 10

we wouldnt have to look so far back if we didnt have to deal with pointless arguments with a screeching tinker

[Teriz]

"Under no circumstance does items serve the same overall function and purpose as class abilities." Nothing you say here says its supposed to be a replacement for an ability. You said the same overall function and purpose. The function and purpose of a stealth ability is to prevent you from being a seen. The function and purpose of a slow fall is to make you fall slow. The function and purpose of a damage skill is to do damage to something. How dense are you?

If they serve the same overall function and purpose as a class ability you should have no problem swapping out your abilities with items, correct?

Is Rock-It! Turret a class ability? No it's not. Why are you trying to bring in an npc's ability? You do realize Npc abilities don't equal player abilities do you? And by bringing it up you are actually proving my point that Blizzard balances everything based on its usage case? Heck even the same npc can have thier abilities scaled depending on how many players are ment to fight it.

What makes Rock-it! Turret any different than a class ability? In BFA it even had a level requirement.

Where something comes from doesn't change its purpose. You were the one that insisted they have different purposes.

The function and purpose of class abilities is to perform class roles (DPS/Healing/Tanking), items cannot serve that function or purpose. That's the point.

Also you mentioned Lifeblood, the healing ability from MoP. That ability had a 3 minute cooldown and was generally a weak heal. So even the profession's abilities are jokes compared to class abilities.

Because it is your head cannon. The purpose of a holy paladin and a resto shaman is to heal and yet neither of them are identical. Doing damage to something is doing damage to something that is its function. It's insane that you seem to still play the game and yet can't comprehend this when every expansion and level skills change the damage/healing/what ever they do. Some even change drastically like demonology locks.

Healing Surge
24% of base mana 40 yd range
1.5 sec cast
Requires Shaman
Requires level 4
A quick surge of healing energy that restores (248% of Spell power) of a friendly target's health.

Healing Wave
15% of base mana 40 yd range
2.5 sec cast
Requires Shaman (Restoration)
Requires level 27
An efficient wave of healing energy that restores (300% of Spell power) of a friendly target’s health.


Flash of Light
22% of base mana 40 yd range
1.5 sec cast
Requires Paladin
Requires level 4
Expends a large amount of mana to quickly heal a friendly target for (168% of Spell power).

Holy Light
15% of base mana 40 yd range
2.5 sec cast
Requires Paladin (Holy)
Requires level 11
An efficient spell, healing a friendly target for (260% of Spell power).

Those look rather similar to me.

Your not asking for something to have the same function as something else you are asking for a 1 for 1 clone of something which isn't something Blizzard does.

I'm asking you to prove that abilities and items being different is my "head canon" instead of a fact.

- - - Updated - - -

The necromancer was 100% NOT folded into necromancer from a lore standpoint. There's plenty of necromancers that aren't death knights.

But it was folded into the Death Knight from a gameplay standpoint. Which simply shows you that gameplay trumps lore. Warlocks also have metamorphosis in lore, and there's Blood Elf and Human monks running around who don't practice Pandaren martial arts. Does it matter in terms of the class lineup?

Nope.

They have the exact same function and purpose. Shoot ranged attacks to deal damage to enemies. Saying that if they don't have the same cooldown or range that they don't serve the same function and purpose would just be you moving goalposts as usual instead of just admitting you're wrong.

Again, the function and purpose of class abilities is to perform class roles. Items cannot accomplish that function or purpose. If you still believe otherwise, then take the same challenge I offered Qwerty and try to complete some quests at your character's level with nothing but engineering items. You should be able to purchase some from the auction house. Like Qwerty I look forward to seeing how much progress you don't make.

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That wasn't my point. My point was to expose your bias towards Island Expedition AI over Mekkatorque which, has no justification whatsoever.

The Island Expedition holds the HotS Tinker abilities. Mekkatorque does not.

You can't center an entire expansion over a race of goodie-two-shoes, especially having that kind of reception from the playerbase. Even the Orcs aesthetic in WoD got tiresome after a while.

They designed MoP way before they announced it to the public. Further, we encountered evil Pandaren in MoP. There's no reason there couldn't be a faction of villainous Pandaren that we would have had to deal with.

Do you realize that by making it a form, you invalidate the gameplay of a Tinker outside of the mech form? What's the point in that?

Druids have no issue with their caster form serving no real purpose outside of restoration.

Well, not in HotS it isn't. Otherwise, it wouldn't have a cooldown, and its benefits wouldn't last X seconds.

What are you talking about?

Yes but, unlike the WC3 Robo-Goblin which, has a downside, your flawless, permanent, mech comes from your fantasy to play as Iron Man. Players want to play inside a mech, as well as outside of it.

Again, Druid players have no issue performing class roles in Bear, Cat, and Moonkin form. In fact Druids are the most popular class in the game.

That said, a mech-based Tinker should have mechanics that take advantage of it being a pilot inside a vehicle. For example a Self Destruct ability would force the Tinker to fight outside their mech for a set amount of time. Additionally when a Tinker's mech is destroyed they may have to fight outside their mech until they're able to resummon it. We see this mechanic with Gazlowe in Island Expeditions, Orelis in the Mag'har scenario, and the Mech Jockeys in MotherLODE.

Brewmaster vendors weren't Pandaren.

But they were trained by Chen Stormstout.

Denialism or not - knowing you and how you operate - I'd put my money on you "rigging the elections".

Or the majority of people here on MMOC simply prefer the Tinker more because it isn't a rehash of existing class concepts.

Well, no they're not. It's quickly being drowned by your constant ramble about Tinkers and you dismissing their ideas. So, this thread appears to be "democratic" but, it's actually governed by you. You just took control of someone else's thread

Again, nothing stops you guys from leaving the Tinker alone and talking about other classes. You're choosing to bring up the Tinker concept when addressing me, so I will continue to respond in kind.

[Unbelievable]

The Island Expedition holds the HotS Tinker abilities. Mekkatorque does not.



They designed MoP way before they announced it to the public. Further, we encountered evil Pandaren in MoP. There's no reason there couldn't be a faction of villainous Pandaren that we would have had to deal with.



Druids have no issue with their caster form serving no real purpose outside of restoration.



What are you talking about?



Again, Druid players have no issue performing class roles in Bear, Cat, and Moonkin form. In fact Druids are the most popular class in the game.

That said, a mech-based Tinker should have mechanics that take advantage of it being a pilot inside a vehicle. For example a Self Destruct ability would force the Tinker to fight outside their mech for a set amount of time. Additionally when a Tinker's mech is destroyed they may have to fight outside their mech until they're able to resummon it. We see this mechanic with Gazlowe in Island Expeditions, Orelis in the Mag'har scenario, and the Mech Jockeys in MotherLODE.



But they were trained by Chen Stormstout.



Or the majority of people here on MMOC simply prefer the Tinker more because it isn't a rehash of existing class concepts.



Again, nothing stops you guys from leaving the Tinker alone and talking about other classes. You're choosing to bring up the Tinker concept when addressing me, so I will continue to respond in kind.

Lady Sena doesn't. Only Gazlowe and Skaggit. Yet, you still consider her Arachnobomb 2.0, Cascading Lightning Pulse, Cutting Beam and Shock Baton as official Tinker abilities.

Come on...villainous Pandaren? how serious can you take that? It's like putting Gnomes and Vulpera as the big baddy of an expansion

The difference between a Tinker and a Druid is that the Tinker does not require you to be in mech form to perform its abilities.

This is what i'm talking about:
Robo-Goblin
Cooldown: 40 seconds
Activate to become Unstoppable for 1.5 seconds.
Passive: Basic Attacks deal 90 bonus damage over 5 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.

And, if you insist on sticking to the Warcraft 3 version you, also, have to accept that:
The Robo-Goblin's weakness is that he cannot be healed by friendly spells. If you focus your attacks on him, you might be able to kill him before he reverts into his organic form so he can be healed.

You can't have just the upsides you like about it but, not the downsides of it.

Cat and Bear make sense, because you can't do those things as a caster. Moonkin form, however, is completely redundant, as it serves as nothing more than a damage boost (and a counter-polymorph). It should be a temporary, non-mandatory skill.

When the Tinker's mech is destroyed? Are you suggesting the Tinker class have 2 health bars?

The people here might prefer the Tinker concept. It's you i don't trust when it comes to polls.

I did leave the Tinker alone and posted 3 long, detailed and visualized posts about class concepts. It got drowned by you and your Tinker comments.

[Teriz]

Lady Sena doesn't. Only Gazlowe and Skaggit. Yet, you still consider her Arachnobomb 2.0, Cascading Lightning Pulse, Cutting Beam and Shock Baton as official Tinker abilities.

It's a possibility, since those abilities don't exist in the present class line up. I could imagine some of those abilities like Cutting Beam and Stun baton being a Tinker's abilities out of their mech (pilot abilities).

Come on...villainous Pandaren? how serious can you take that? It's like putting Gnomes and Vulpera as the big baddy of an expansion

Looks good to me.

The difference between a Tinker and a Druid is that the Tinker does not require you to be in mech form to perform its abilities.

You would need to be in a mech in order to utilize heavy weaponry. It would be rather hard carrying around an arsenal of missiles and bombs in your knapsack.

This is what i'm talking about:
Robo-Goblin
Cooldown: 40 seconds
Activate to become Unstoppable for 1.5 seconds.
Passive: Basic Attacks deal 90 bonus damage over 5 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.

Yeah, that's a cooldown to boost the already existing mech form. The actual mech form (which just consists of the clawback getting more armor and buzz saws for arms) is permanent.

And, if you insist on sticking to the Warcraft 3 version you, also, have to accept that:
The Robo-Goblin's weakness is that he cannot be healed by friendly spells. If you focus your attacks on him, you might be able to kill him before he reverts into his organic form so he can be healed.

Nah, that aspect would be altered to make it more balanced for WoW's class structure. They'd probably just make up some BS passive like "Mana Drive" that converts healing spells into energy that repairs the mech or some such silliness.

You can't have just the upsides you like about it but, not the downsides of it.

I have no idea why you think a Tinker inside a mech would be some invincible creature. You can still be defeated while piloting the mech. Look at Mekkatorque, Blackfuse and Thermaplugg.

Cat and Bear make sense, because you can't do those things as a caster. Moonkin form, however, is completely redundant, as it serves as nothing more than a damage boost (and a counter-polymorph). It should be a temporary, non-mandatory skill.

Moonkin also gets a damage reduction buff. However that said, yeah it's a permanent form, and they even get Incarnation on top of it.

When the Tinker's mech is destroyed? Are you suggesting the Tinker class have 2 health bars?

When its health reaches zero. And no, not 2 health bars. You can make it like Shaman Reincarnation ability, where they die and they can instantly rez themselves at 20% health. Do the same thing for the Tinker. Give the Tinker the option to eject from their mech before it explodes, and if they take it, they're at reduced health and can't eject again for 30 minutes.

Simple.

I did leave the Tinker alone and posted 3 long, detailed and visualized posts about class concepts. It got drowned by you and your Tinker comments.

Maybe people didn't like your class concepts?

[Ielenia]

Yeah, totally the same action....

Do try to be honest sometime, and read the question I wrote in the very first line of that post. Both perform the same action: the action of producing a walking bomb that zeroes in on a target to fight and explode.

Also, repeating because you ignored it (likely because it debunks your arguments):

Nowhere in the lore (or by blizzard) does it state that the Tinker was placed into the engineering profession.

One section of the engineering profession is called "tinkering". One reagent that the engineers use are "tinker's kit". Another enhancement they used to use was called "tinker's gear". And then we have Tinkerer Gizlock, a tinker who uses only engineering abilities. So I'd hardly say my claims have "no evidence".

[Teriz]

Do try to be honest sometime, and read the question I wrote in the very first line of that post. Both perform the same action: the action of producing a walking bomb that zeroes in on a target to fight and explode.

Except the Factory doesn't produce walking bombs, it produces Clockwork Goblins;



vs.



Big difference.

Also, repeating because you ignored it (likely because it debunks your arguments):

I'm ignoring silly semantic arguments.

[Ielenia]

Except the Factory doesn't produce walking bombs, it produces Clockwork Goblins;

Big difference.

Which are walking bombs.

I'm ignoring silly semantic arguments.

Says the guy literally arguing semantics by trying to argue a difference that has not been shown to exist between terms (engineer/tinker), and trying to re-define words and terms to fit their narrative (build).

Not to mention what I re-linked has zero semantics. You accused me of having no evidence to my claims, and I demonstrated that there is evidence of my claims. And now, you're trying to dismiss the fact your argument got debunked by wrongly calling it "semantics".

Are you trying to redefine "semantics" as "debunking an argument", now?

[Teriz]

Which are walking bombs.

No, they're robotic soldiers who explode when they expire. The Clockwork Goblins attack first with weapons, and then explode. The gameplay implications of that is you could actually alter what types of robots the factory produces depending on spec or talent. You could have Clockwork Goblins that attack with swords and explode, or you could have ranged Clockwork Goblins that hurl bombs at targets and then explode.

In addition we should remember once again that you're producing a factory that produces an army of robots, not pooping out a single bomb every 30 minutes.

Says the guy literally arguing semantics by trying to argue a difference that has not been shown to exist between terms (engineer/tinker), and trying to re-define words and terms to fit their narrative (build).

I've shown it multiple times, you simply don't want to accept it. The above being yet another example. You refusing to accept reality is not my problem.

[Ielenia]

The gameplay implications of that is you could actually alter what types of robots the factory produces depending on spec or talent.

That's not something you could do back in WC3, and there is not a single evidence that's something we'd be able to do if it was a playable class. You're literally making up stuff.

In addition we should remember once again that you're producing a factory that produces an army of robots, not pooping out a single bomb every 30 minutes.

And I can argue that this is just game balance, and not an indication that engineering is somehow "inferior" to tinkering in any way, shape or form.

I've shown it multiple times, you simply don't want to accept it.

I and others have debunked your assertions, and showed that there is no evident difference between "tinker" and "engineer". Your claim about "one invents, other sells" has been debunked by an official statement (the old engineering profession webpage) and examples from the game (tinker vendors and engineer adventurers)

You refusing to accept reality is not my problem.

You? Accusing me of "refusing to accept reality"? That's cute. And not to mention an incredibly dishonest projection, evidenced as follows:

What if an Azerothian doesn't require food for months or years?

I wouldn't be surprised if they [player characters] are unique mutants who do not need food or water to survive.

You know that's entirely head canon right? Our characters might not need to eat or drink to survive. Food might not be a necessity. Maybe our characters could be healed back to full health by eating an apple or a walnut. Maybe they can actually run for miles and miles and never stop to rest ever.