I miss dkp.

[Stormwolf64]

Yeah this system was awesome. Joining a guild and with new content some players had 1032092389023920390329 DKP and you'd never get anything. Good fucking riddance indeed.

[SoloMmofriendly]

I'm not joking at all, I've seen this thing happen live, it was during TBC, server: stormscale guild: Core.



No, it wasnt 1-2 people hoarding for 1 item, it was gear getting disenchanted for 3 bosses in a row in a progression guild.



Thats a load of bullshit. Has more meaning my ass.

From your replies my friend, I understand that you never played with dkp in a progresion guild.

I'll give you another example, I was a survival support hunter during sunwell progression. I was force fed any agility gear that dropped because "it buffed the raid". I was in the several hundred negative dkp. I never had a shot at the legendary bow because there were 3 hunter above me who actually had dkp above 0.

Well you had a bad system i am sorry for that. but your comments do not apply to the system im talking about which was a different dkp system, one that was evenly balanced with no biased point scoring, competitive bidding or forcing people to take an item at a cost to dkp.

A system where 100% chance if you put in the time you would be bis geared, i was happy knowing this, even when someone was inevitably sometimes ahead of me i knew next time he was out of the picture. it wasnt a competition where people would try and hurt each other in ways, it was a collective push for everyone to get geared together evenly and you would get rewarded depending on the time you put in on an even platform, so you missed a raid? you cant then expect to get an item ahead of a guy that didnt miss a raid, thats entitled. the beauty is the guy that attended wins the next item then he goes below you! so your not that behind at all, you just gave up your turn by not attending.

So your new to a guild, you look around 4 people are ahead of you, your not collecting loot while as a trial anyway are you? so there is 2 weeks of those 4 players collecting gear, THEY ARE NO LONGER IN THE PICTURE FOR THE ITEMS THEY WIN all the while you are also accumilating dkp while the said 4 players are depleting theres.

It was all about the balance of the system whether it worked or not, if you got he balance right for award/cost it was a near flawless system for everyone to get bis quickly.

[TheRevenantHero]

Yeah this system was awesome. Joining a guild and with new content some players had 1032092389023920390329 DKP and you'd never get anything. Good fucking riddance indeed.

Exactly. I hated that shit. I always felt bad for new people entering the guild and not getting their BIS until months later. There was one person on my old raid team who didn't get their BIS for like three months because he had a full time job and the people who basically live on WoW just accumulated dkp by donating materials to the guild.

- - - Updated - - -

Well you had a bad system i am sorry for that. but your comments do not apply to the system im talking about which was a different dkp system, one that was evenly balanced with no biased point scoring, competitive bidding or forcing people to take an item at a cost to dkp.

Once again, your version of dkp has never existed and it's clear you've never actually done dkp. All your comments make it more likely that you heard people talk about dkp rather than actually participating in dkp.

[kranur]

Bid DKP is pretty bad and I can totally understand the frustration and unfairness. It basically forces you to think schemes to pay as little as possible.

Zero sum however ... never had any sort of loot drama with it during tbc and wotlk. Probably because the items had a fixed a price so it didn't matter if you were the only person wanting an item.

[SoloMmofriendly]

Yeah this system was awesome. Joining a guild and with new content some players had 1032092389023920390329 DKP and you'd never get anything. Good fucking riddance indeed.

Again someone that experienced a bad system, in the system that worked you had dkp squish each month, again balanced correctly meant new players wouldnt be too far behind at all. it was alla bout the balance in the settings whether it worked or not, maybe i was just lucky to find a guild that knew how to balance it fairly so everyone got rewarded for the time they put in.

- - - Updated - - -

Bid DKP is pretty bad and I can totally understand the frustration and unfairness. It basically forces you to think schemes to pay as little as possible.

Zero sum however ... never had any sort of loot drama with it during tbc and wotlk. Probably because the items had a fixed a price so it didn't matter if you were the only person wanting an item.

Yes, bid dkp bad bad bad. im not talking about bid dkp, im talking about accumilate system that was even for all, no biased awarding and no bidding, same item cost for all also dependant on slot. with a dkp squish (30%) once a month so new members werent miles behind.

If you were hoarding dkp you had it squished at the end of the month, the more you hoarded the more you lost when it was squished.

[MrKnubbles]

I bet Player A still has better gear which invalidates this argument. It's not the size of the upgrade that matters. In the end, the person who puts in the most effort will have the better gear.

[Zephire]

player a is a warrior with 100 dkp
player b is a hunter with 95 dkp

You kill archimonde, he drops his bow. Player a spends all his dkp and gets the bow cause its a nice stat boost. Hunter runts on teamspeak for 1 hour. The guild has drama for the next 3 weeks.

"Hey guys, new expansion, starting dkp again, this time it will be fine because warriors can't use bows, dont worrry"

Plate boots drop, everybody passes on them cause they're saving dkp for a tier token. Boots get disenchanted. Cloth belt drops, everybody passes on that, they're saving their dkp for a trinket. Belt gets disec Mail gloves drop, guess what, everybody passes on them cause they're saving dkp for a weapon. Gloves get disenchanted. Officers rant on ventrilo for 2 hours, guild has drama.

New trial joins the guild, he's handed every piece of gear the rest of the team doesnt want. He cant say no cause his previous gear sucked, and he pays dkp for that. Now he's promoted to a member and he's -200 dkp. He knows he wont get a weapon for the next 6 weeks.

Question is, have YOU played with dkp OP?

I get your point but that might also be because of how loot worked back in the day. Today we only share, some trinkets, necks, rings, cloak and weapons. Might work better today.

I'm not a fan of DKP, used it some in vanilla but we soon went with roll or more of a loot council system. Been in guilds with loot council for a long time and I must say, if the officers are just then it works great, which they were. Everyone helped as well with passing loot if it was a larger upgrade for a newer member since it would up the group more than them taking it. Don't think we ever had loot drama. I can see this having some backsides as well, like with PL and RNG vs participation rate or anything, really.

[erifwodahs]

Oh i agree there is no question at all, lc was the best system undoubtidly for raid progression as long as the decision made were for exactly what they were intended, the good of the raid as a collective unit, as i said the problem was you had world rank 5000 gms distributing loot to there friends absolutely oblivious to where the gear itself would be best for the raid.

I never forget the guild i joined (not expecting anything) where the gm decided to attend a farm raid on his alt and took 7 items over even his raiders.

That is the major flaw of LC. Very easy to misuse it. Never had this problem as most of the guilds I was in were very progress oriented, but as soon it would be apparent I would drop the guild and take as many people as I can.

[KainneAbsolute]

It sucked. All ended in negotiation or discussion.

[callipygoustp]

Master loot was easily the best system without question in terms of a raid progressing as long as it wasnt being abused whether knowingly or unknowingly.

When you think about world rank 5000 guilds and "councils" distributing loot its pretty easy to realise that majority of councils didnt know there arse from there elbows and would often vote depending on relationship / bias.

Whoops, I meant to say personal loot, not master loot. Updated my post.

[SoloMmofriendly]

It sucked. All ended in negotiation or discussion.

No negotiation in a flat accumilation system, if you was top it was your right to choose whether to bid the static cost or not.

[TickTickTick]

Each system had its flaws, let's not kid ourselves.

That being said, with how little loot drops right now, personal loot became a bad system too.

[Kumorii]

You cant use it because as soon as a highest ilvl item drops it becomes soulbound which just hammers home another point.

Player a) has a 210 ring bis stats and wins a 213 ring with worst possible stats
player b) has a 197 ring with worst stats, the ring player a won was bis stats.

Everything about gearing is on an rng system now, as opposed to knowing that if you attended you would 100% chance recieve a full bis item set. no question about it, 100% chance.

It's almost as if I said "On tradeable loot" for a reason.

[Asrialol]

Expected thread to be bad. Turns out the OP is hilarious. Bookmarked his post history.

[Marack]

OP... Sounds more like talking EPGP and not true DKP. DKP sucks major donky dick, for many of the reasons people have posted on here. There have been some version that sucks a little less, but I'll take praying to RNGsus over relying on someone to properly manage some points system that can and often will be abused.

[alt-ithist]

You cant use it because as soon as a highest ilvl item drops it becomes soulbound which just hammers home another point.

Player a) has a 210 ring bis stats and wins a 213 ring with worst possible stats
player b) has a 197 ring with worst stats, the ring player a won was bis stats.

Everything about gearing is on an rng system now, as opposed to knowing that if you attended you would 100% chance recieve a full bis item set. no question about it, 100% chance.

- - - Updated - - -



Exaclty, people are commenting about different systems which i didnt agree with, the system that worked was the one with set costs and award points for all, no biased awarding/bidding etc, just simply one rule for all, attend > earn > spend.

The system i am talking about if you attended then you would 100%, legit 100% chance be bis in a couple of months. and so would everyone else.

The issue in these times wasnt the gearing and how it was distributed, it was keeping people interested once they reached there full bis item set which kind of in itself explains why blizzard are all for rng, keep the content dragging along without actually adding any new content. you arent given the opportunity to earn bis gear anymore, your given the opportunty for a roll of the dice.

The set cost and no bid had rng. Since people who wanted the item had to do /roll 1-100 to get it. Bidding method removed rng as the highest bid wins.

[VinceVega]

Empowering your toon to the max level goes a little something like this

Do weeklies
Do enough of the content you want to give enough options that you are satisfied with in your vault to which even if you obtain the 9 full options you could still get shafted.
Pray to rng.

Remember the dkp system? this was an amazing system that rewarded players based on there effort allowing players to spend the points they EARNT on what they chose when they chose. having there dkp (earn points) reduced every time they won an item.
Player a) puts in 16 hours - is rewarded with an item from his bis list because....he has more earn points
Player b) puts in 2 hours - realises that he has to wait untill next week because he didnt earn enough, but at least now player a) has the item and is no longer against him for it.

Cue backlash and instant angry responses from player bs.

"bUT i dESERVE tHE vERY bEST gEAR bEFORE tHE pLAYER tHAT aTTENDED 4/4 rAIDS jUST bECAUSE i oNLY aTTEND 1/4 dUE tO jOB, bABY, mY fAVOURITE tEAM pLAYING, iLLNESS, hAD a pOWERCUT, i fELL aSLEEP, hAD vISITORS, sHOULDNT mEAN tHE gUY tHAT cLEARED hIS sCHEDULE aND mADE sURE hE aTTENDED sHOULD gET gEAR bEFORE mE iT sHOULD bE fAIR"

Player bs you have destroyed the game and made items meaningless thanks to blizzard accommadating your entitled attitudes over the years.

What can and does happen in current gearing system
Player a) puts in 16 hours - recieves a tiny upgrade in weekly vault
Player b) puts in 2 hours - receives best in slot weapon to proceed to go into content and press his/her 3 buttons in the wrong order.

OF COURSE player b is going to be happy with the current gearing system, the game has accommadated the people that dont put the effort in so much so that wow is losing 140k subs a year as more and more and more people realise this game is actually very unrewarding for you unless you are lucky.

Why do you think wow is losing 140k subs a year? 140k players a year getting fed up of being unrewarded for the effort they put in.

Good job player bs, good job.

DKP was horrible horrible horrible. I always hated it.

Loot council was the best imho. But that only works if you have a good group of leaders and people not being bitchy if they don't get an upgrade if it is BIS for another class/spec.

I got used to personal loot and actually like it now. We can trade more than enough in our raids. It is not that often, that someone gets loot he just can't use because iLvl is most of the time more important that secondary stats.
The only part where it becomes difficult is Trinkets.... because sometimes you are eligable for trinkets you would NEVER use.
Like the healer trinket from hungering destroyer. Amazing for disc priests. Useless for resto druids. I got it on our forst kill but did not have another trinket that high so i could not trade it to our disc. I got it again on the second kill and could give it to him. But still... one disentchanted trinket.

[czarek]

You miss dkp? Go play classic :P But imo dkp sucks. EPGP is much much better.

[SoloMmofriendly]

OP... Sounds more like talking EPGP and not true DKP. DKP sucks major donky dick, for many of the reasons people have posted on here. There have been some version that sucks a little less, but I'll take praying to RNGsus over relying on someone to properly manage some points system that can and often will be abused.

yes that was it, it was an epgp system, so fair and rewarding.

- - - Updated - - -

You miss dkp? Go play classic :P But imo dkp sucks. EPGP is much much better.

i was refering to epgp

[iosdeveloper]

i kinda miss that oomph from getting 10dkp for being on time for the raid)
i ran from the university to my dorm for mere 10dkp, what fun