I miss dkp.

[SoloMmofriendly]

But who gets it first? How is that decided?

I dont know i guess a roll would be fairest if everything else is even.

[Azerox]

Don't miss it.
People gear up so fast now with M+ that alot of gear can be traded.
You can even reroll an stock up pretty fast with current system (if your raid allows it).

Back in the day it was indeed beter because i was online 24/7
If you always attend and never miss a raid that is a good thing.

[Stickiler]

I dont know i guess a roll would be fairest if everything else is even.

It alllll comes back to RNG in the end



Also, another question, what happens if an item drops that only a single person can use? Does it just get disenchanted if they don't want to spend their points on it? How is that helping the raid?

[Wysmark]

Ofc DKP was trash

I was in guild with several systems and they were all inherently flawed.

I remember one in particular where okay, first we had to gear the tanks. Fair enough. Then in name of progression we geared best DPS and healers first. Ehm okay. Sadly once we progressed to new tier the “worst” raiders were an entire tier behind, but because the “elite” now wanted the new items.... Lots of drama because it left half the team undergeared

Or how about items getting disenchanted despite being useful, because people were savning dkp for an item that then didnt drop?

Or did everyone enjoy sitting around 10-15 minutes after each boss doing loot?

[Azerate]

I've been in 2 guilds with EPGP in wrath/cata. It wasn't bad, but what we have now is just much simpler and I kind of prefer that. You either get loot or you don't, and when someone else gets it, they either want to trade it to you or not. I don't know, I just don't feel like I can be bothered anymore to deal with loot wars and the surrounding drama.

[luedieniel]

Its just logic buddy and quite the opposite, i wasnt hurt with dkp, the "dkp" system i used was in a nutshell flawless and all of these loopholes etc people are mentioning simply didnt exist in epgp. the biggest issue with epgp was people not attending as soon as they got there bis gearset, i remember the feeling of there is no point to go now, while i didnt act on it and i still attended out of loyalty to those that assisted me in getting absolute bis i still got the feeling that caused the majority of others to "take a break" coincidentially as soon as there was nothing left in there gear to upgrade....every time. maybe epgp was too good thats why a lot of guilds didnt adopt it.

I was just touching on how the people that did get hurt were so immidiate in there reaction to shut down epgp. epgp dkp 2 completely different things, same kinda concept but with 1 thing in mind, fairness for all with no manipulation loopholes.

I suppose the core issue here is that you're talking about people only attending for gearing purposes. Thats purely an issue with mindset.
As for no point in participating due to gear: We let our DKP carry over to the next tier, so people still had an incentive to attend.

If you don't mind me asking, what is it you think makes EPGP so different from DKP systems?
As far as I recall, they both function on points. Just awarding them for different things. DKP for whatever the guild so choose and EPGP for the actual loot dropped and received. Both EPGP and DKP had potential to decay or not, and the "priority rating" in EPGP functions exactly the same as having spent the points in DKP. Plus, you talk about the issues with two people having the same DKP being an issue, but you could end up with the same PR in EPGP as well, resulting in a roll. So what is so different?

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Ofc DKP was trash

I was in guild with several systems and they were all inherently flawed.

I remember one in particular where okay, first we had to gear the tanks. Fair enough. Then in name of progression we geared best DPS and healers first. Ehm okay. Sadly once we progressed to new tier the “worst” raiders were an entire tier behind, but because the “elite” now wanted the new items.... Lots of drama because it left half the team undergeared

Or how about items getting disenchanted despite being useful, because people were savning dkp for an item that then didnt drop?

Or did everyone enjoy sitting around 10-15 minutes after each boss doing loot?

I know many guilds went with "First the officers, then the raiders, then the trials". That was quite an horrendous approach, but it made the officers seem like they were better I suppose.

[Wedny22]

Everyone keep dating DKP screwee Them and blablabla...for me, best loot system ever. We had a Guy that die the DKP charts, hè is a Mathmatician, and had lots of excell knowledgde, zo just made a spreadsheet after Each raid, all was fine, noone screwed eachother, it was beautifull. It was in a 10 man, all of good Friends and we all wanted to progress so, that has prolly some to do with it.
Damn, while i writer this, its prolly better they removed it..lots of stuff needed to make this work

Yeah, remove it.

[vian]

That system sucked big time. People who did not have any competition in their class could get everything for next to nothing and then outbid everyone on important stuff like tier tokens. No, thanks, good riddance.

As someone who's played warlock since vanilla, in guilds where they always were on high demand, it was great :>

[SoloMmofriendly]

Everyone keep dating DKP screwee Them and blablabla...for me, best loot system ever. We had a Guy that die the DKP charts, hè is a Mathmatician, and had lots of excell knowledgde, zo just made a spreadsheet after Each raid, all was fine, noone screwed eachother, it was beautifull. It was in a 10 man, all of good Friends and we all wanted to progress so, that has prolly some to do with it.
Damn, while i writer this, its prolly better they removed it..lots of stuff needed to make this work

Yeah, remove it.

So your acknowledging when balanced it worked great, thanks!

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As someone who's played warlock since vanilla, in guilds where they always were on high demand, it was great :>

Agree! was absolutely nothing wrong with the epgp reward system, the only people that took exception to it were the people that wanted both the small upgrades AND the best in slot trinket.

[Cifer]

I'm just gonna pop in here and teach OP a new word:
Their

Edit: Oh yeah and DKP sucks, a system that pretty much guarantees guild drama is inherently bad imo.

[D3athsting]

Hunter outbids warrior on Ashkandi after nefarian's kill->drama->warrior quits, hunter quits

Dkp in a nutshell

Yes this happened in vanilla (the real, not classic)

[SoloMmofriendly]

Hunter outbids warrior on Ashkandi after nefarian's kill->drama->warrior quits, hunter quits

Dkp in a nutshell

Yes this happened in vanilla (the real, not classic)

Yep, bad system, what about epgp? you know, the system i wrote about?

[Wildpantz]

Like a month activision investor call said highest subcriber count in a decade meaning wrath meaning above 12 mil subs

[LanToaster]

Exactly mate, people hated the idea that you had to earn your points to spend them, they absolutely HATED it, they just wanted handouts, the people that were happy to earn the points just by attending (being a good raider) would do well, its the people that scarcely attended that of course would have exception to it because they wanted what the people that earnt it were getting without actually earning it.

Do you actually imply that (all) people who dont like/need/want DKP are people who just want "Free Handouts" and are unreliable? Because my raid has a near 100% attendance.

Let me be clear about the system im talking about:

You would be rewarded earn points depending on

- being on time (50dkp) same for all
- killing a boss (50dkp) same for all
- a progress kill (100dkp) same for all
- a static amount for all every hour (20dkp) same for all
- staying till the end (50dkp) same for all
Players that were benched and available for raid would accumilate the exact same that those that were in play were recieving.

every item slot would have its static cost pre set so no class/spec gets an advantage.

weapons 1300dkp
tier 950dkp
armor 675dkp

when you bid you would bid either

need (100% cost)
minor upgrade/alt (75% cost)
pass

Every 2nd week you would lower everyones dkp by 30% to deter from people hoarding, the more you hoarded the more you lost.

WoW, you want to punish people where the Item they need doesnt drop? Furthermore, if you cannot "Hoard" or safe your DKP for Items you actually want. You need to spend your DKP for almost every minor upgrade that drops.

FAR quicker at getting an entire guild a bis gearset than now - give people a dice to roll.

You guys that attend every raid in 2 months time will still be chasing a couple of items where with epgp you would be full bis due to being able to target your rewards instead of them being rng/worthless most of the time.

Your DKP system doesnt change what drops. So, if you have a raid with people who are reliable, your Raid is not faster equipped either way. DKP doesnt change the Items that drop, nor how many.

The arguements i seen against this system are so obvious the player commenting is a player b,

There is a single clothie winning all the cloth. so? what does that have to do with you?
"but then hes winning my trinket too!" no? you couldnt win loads of items and then win a trinket too against a guy that hadnt spent anything, you would have spent all your points.

To me, it sure as hell sounds like you are Player B

Because you QQ around because someone who might perform way better than you, and is a way bigger asset to the raid, but due to Work/Family needs to sit out the occasional Raid, doesnt deserve your loot, because you waste the Air in every single Raid there is. But probably dont make any kind of valuable contribution to the Raid. In most cases the Raid would be better off without you in that case.

The reason took out ML i fully agree with, the abuse of loot council or friend council as i began to call it was so obvious and crappy that it needed taking away, best way to gear a guild when used rightwithout question, easiest way for a crappy gm and his army of crappy officers to gear themselves, masking it with "its for the good of the guild" "your loot horny" as the officer recieves his 7th item this week on his alt.[/QUOTE]

Firstly it wouldnt matter because with a solid consistent guild if 2 warriors need a sword the one that didnt win it 100% chance wins it next time. thats the entire point.

So what? If you dont run with your DKP, the Sword Drops, one Warrior gets it first, the next time it drops the other Warrior gets it. Oo
Where is the Difference?

Its just logic buddy and quite the opposite, i wasnt hurt with dkp, the "dkp" system i used was in a nutshell flawless and all of these loopholes etc people are mentioning simply didnt exist in epgp. the biggest issue with epgp was people not attending as soon as they got there bis gearset, i remember the feeling of there is no point to go now, while i didnt act on it and i still attended out of loyalty to those that assisted me in getting absolute bis i still got the feeling that caused the majority of others to "take a break" coincidentially as soon as there was nothing left in there gear to upgrade....every time. maybe epgp was too good thats why a lot of guilds didnt adopt it.

I was just touching on how the people that did get hurt were so immidiate in there reaction to shut down epgp. epgp dkp 2 completely different things, same kinda concept but with 1 thing in mind, fairness for all with no manipulation loopholes.

And here you summed up why YOU need a DKP system, and decent players dont.

First of: Your version of DKP, (And you can cry so much that its different, its not, its a Point based system to distribute Loot, the actual Rules are/were always up to the individual) might be relativly Fair and you would have no problems with it. But other people can easily find fault with it.
E.g. again what is with the person with a Job/Family that doesnt allow him to attend every single raid. With your system he doesnt deserve Shit, and doesnt get stuff until he is dead last.

Now you say he´s a player B who just wants handouts. But the point of your system and why you need it is exactly because of that same reason. You create a Loot System with arbitrary rules, to make sure certain people get Items first.
There is no fairness if someone who sits in the Raid, is as valuable to the raid as a Vegetable, because he´s either Dead in every Fight or pulls like 1% performance, gets loot over someone who might need to sit out once every two weeks, but usually tops the Charts, and pushes the extra DMG when there is only 1% missing.

In the end, honestly, your system is still up to RNG. Because whatever Item a player needs, first need to Drop, and someone who passes week(s) on potential Upgrades because of a slightly better Upgrade is a Shitty player. So, you still just got a fancy round robin system for your Loot. In no way or form better than rolling on items.

Obviously, now coming to your first point, (which is why loot whores like you need a DKP system) if you have loot whores like you in your Raid who dont attend raids because they have their Items from the raid, and leave the rest of the group hanging, its obvious that the natural system of "Eventually everyone gets all the Items" doesnt work, because you introduce new players to your group every second week.

In my Raid, you would probably get the boot for mentioning "I dont come tonight because theres nothing to Drop for me".

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Also, another question, what happens if an item drops that only a single person can use? Does it just get disenchanted if they don't want to spend their points on it? How is that helping the raid?

Thats because such a system only works when the Raid works together, and people are not egoistic. And if you have decent group who works properly together, in return you dont need a DKP system.

[arkanon]

I dont know i guess a roll would be fairest if everything else is even.

Hahahahaha, and there it is. After 7 pages we realize what OP wants is ..........group loot.

[prwraith]

Thanks, and it was actually called epgp not dkp, dkp recieves a lot of backlash and some of the stories ive read that people experienced no wonder so many people are so quick to instantly dismiss the post.

Nah I meant DKP, epgp was a disaster

[Lavey]

I'll be honest I was more of GDKP type guy. I really miss that format.

[Kyanion]

Hahahahaha, and there it is. After 7 pages we realize what OP wants is ..........group loot.

Ah yes the great equalizer, a dice roll determines where the item goes. Glad we need dkp/epgp whatever else to figure that one out.

[SoloMmofriendly]

Hahahahaha, and there it is. After 7 pages we realize what OP wants is ..........group loot.

really? are you that dumb mate? jesus how did you even manage to log in.

[arkanon]

Ah yes the great equalizer, a dice roll determines where the item goes. Glad we need dkp/epgp whatever else to figure that one out.

To be fair we are having this discussion with a person who genuinely believes his guild group will get bis FASTER by running dkp. Cos we all know dkp makes more loot drop, and his items too!