SL after the honeymoon phase

[Puupi]

So what alternative do you envisage for alts? They hit max level and are granted a 200 ilvl set, full reps, weeklies & Torghast automatically complete without doing them, And all major story quests just auto complete? Genuine question, because those things just sound like "playing the game".

Weirdly enough, I had to do none of such things in BFA which wasn't alt friendly either.

The problem isn't story quests or gear; it's character power tied behind those quests/tasks, and most importantly, ONLY those quests/taskis.

I don't give a shit about gear. You can farm gear from whatever content you like, be it raids, m+, pvp, whatever.

But unlocking those soulbinds, renown, soul ash and stygia come from those chore tasks alone.

[arkanon]

Compare the difference between a venthyr hunter and a night fae one. Single target is almost 1000 dps different and aoe is almost 2000 dps different.

Source of simulations: https://www.wowhead.com/guides/marks...imulations-aoe

Thats not what i asked - I asked YOU what content YOU will not be able to run - if M+, what keys are you running that you fear being declined for this reason? If raiding, the race is long gone so its clearly not the pointy end of mythic raiding, do you fear rejection here?

Or pvp maybe? If so what rating?

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But unlocking those soulbinds, renown, soul ash and stygia come from those chore tasks alone.

If you are not interested in gear, why are you farming renown and soul ash etc? Is it a RP thing? If so, are you more interested in a point and click adventure? Im just not sure why playing the game is a negative, especially when you are not talking about gear at all.

Taking gear into account, your comment about BfA is very inaccurate - it ignores spamming islands for hours a day to catch up, ignores the farming for the neck, ignores the cloak.......You played BfA, right?

[RemasteredClassic]

I don't think this is something that should be addressed via a korrak's revenge or invasions or something short term and for SL only, but via a long term solution that never gets old and the only thing that comes to mind is turning old raids into dungeons for levels 50 to 59 after clearing all current content first on a single character.

At least I can keep busy with that and actually have fun while waiting for all the gating BS to get taken care of in future patches.

[Brocksley]

Thats not what i asked - I asked YOU what content YOU will not be able to run - if M+, what keys are you running that you fear being declined for this reason? If raiding, the race is long gone so its clearly not the pointy end of mythic raiding, do you fear rejection here?

Or pvp maybe? If so what rating?

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If you are not interested in gear, why are you farming renown and soul ash etc? Is it a RP thing? If so, are you more interested in a point and click adventure? Im just not sure why playing the game is a negative, especially when you are not talking about gear at all.

Taking gear into account, your comment about BfA is very inaccurate - it ignores spamming islands for hours a day to catch up, ignores the farming for the neck, ignores the cloak.......You played BfA, right?

Doesn’t matter the content. NO ONE likes to feel neutered, no matter what content they do.

[arkanon]

also, in regard to your question to brocksley, i have guildies who will kick people just so they can have the covenant bonus from a dungeon or a person who isn't in the optimal covenant. THAT is the issue with covenants.

No, that is an issue with players - That is not Blizzards fault. People want to be optimal and thats fine - if they want a specific covenant and they are forming the group, ASK for that in the ad.

I find it really amusing when ppl say they are not balanced, link single target in a vaccum difference of dps, then say "this is why i cant do M+" like ST dps is the top priority when forming a M+ group................

Im sure there are issues like you spoke of where players behave like assholes, but overall, i think a large portion of players are not getting invites for other reasons, and just looking for an excuse. As usual, form your own groups, play with friends, play with a dedicated group / guild group.

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Doesn’t matter the content. NO ONE likes to feel neutered, no matter what content they do.

Picking something you dont enjoy just to get slightly bigger numbers is Neutered, playing what you enjoy is freedom - like going commando. And im sorry, but you are wrong - i know plenty of people who play w/e the fuck they want and couldnt care less if some randoms expect them to play ABC, they enjoy ADF so they play ADF. If they get kicked they dont care, they are mature people who really dont care - they form their own group or say "Hey Ark, what you up to? wanna tank some M+?" and off we go.

And tbh the content DOES matter - if there is a cieling where suddenly finding a group becomes an issue, maybe there is something worth looking into. But anyone saying "i cannot get a grp because i chose X" - sorry, just flatout do not believe that.

[Brocksley]

No, that is an issue with players - That is not Blizzards fault. People want to be optimal and thats fine - if they want a specific covenant and they are forming the group, ASK for that in the ad.

I find it really amusing when ppl say they are not balanced, link single target in a vaccum difference of dps, then say "this is why i cant do M+" like ST dps is the top priority when forming a M+ group................

Im sure there are issues like you spoke of where players behave like assholes, but overall, i think a large portion of players are not getting invites for other reasons, and just looking for an excuse. As usual, form your own groups, play with friends, play with a dedicated group / guild group.

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Picking something you dont enjoy just to get slightly bigger numbers is Neutered, playing what you enjoy is freedom - like going commando. And im sorry, but you are wrong - i know plenty of people who play w/e the fuck they want and couldnt care less if some randoms expect them to play ABC, they enjoy ADF so they play ADF. If they get kicked they dont care, they are mature people who really dont care - they form their own group or say "Hey Ark, what you up to? wanna tank some M+?" and off we go.

Did you miss the part where it’s a 2000 dps difference and not “slightly” better?

[Puupi]

If you are not interested in gear, why are you farming renown and soul ash etc? Is it a RP thing? If so, are you more interested in a point and click adventure? Im just not sure why playing the game is a negative, especially when you are not talking about gear at all.

By "not interested in gear", I meant I'm not interested in the "free" gear you are getting from getting renown, campaign quests etc. It's irrelevant.

Taking gear into account, your comment about BfA is very inaccurate - it ignores spamming islands for hours a day to catch up, ignores the farming for the neck, ignores the cloak.......You played BfA, right?

BFA wasn't alt friendly because it was GRINDY. You needed to grind stuff like AP, corruption, essences etc. It was bad design, too.

Shadowlands is bad in another way - mandatory things tied to weekly/daily/once in a lifetime chores.

[RemasteredClassic]

Old world raids split into 5 man dungeons = a real adventure that is fun, challenging and rewarding AND lets you explore major stories from WoW ALL AT ONCE! Let us have this feature for level 50 to 59 please after clearing SL once? We can check out your other SL stuff at 60, but I am not interested in SL until the story develops further and gating relaxed/progresses further, flying unlocked...etc otherwise, I have no reason to stay subbed.

[arkanon]

Did you miss the part where it’s a 2000 dps difference and not “slightly” better?

And what percentage of your personal dps is that? Not just a number off a site, what difference do YOU see? FYI its 1600 not 2000, and only the worst case scenario. But ill ask you again, what experience do you PERSONALLY have with this? Did you choose one of the "lesser" covenants and fail to get into groups, forcing you to swap? You know you can swap aye?

Amusingly the sim you linked even cautions that patchwork aoe is SOMEWHAT accurate, but not really accurate in a real world dungeon environment.

If you personally are motivated to focus PURELY on output, then there are some sacrifices that you will have to make to achieve this, and thats entirely on you.

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Shadowlands is bad in another way - mandatory things tied to weekly/daily/once in a lifetime chores.

Mandatory in what way? What you call a chore, others call content.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

It feels like a great expansion that's trapped in a good expansion. There have been many additions and changes that I like, but there are many small things they could do that would really help the game.

WQs:
Pros: Seems like there are more gimmicky WQs, which is good. I like those.
Cons: They've introduced longer WQs that aren't fun and it seems there isn't enough variety of WQs either. It feels like we get the same ones all of the time. Rewards of all types outside of the 1500+ gold from callings aren't good enough. Makes me feel "why bother?".

Torghast:
Pro: Really cool new game type. It can really allow us to just go nuts with broken powers and have fun.
Cons: Not enough variety of powers. Even classes that have good powers usually end up doing the same builds every run. There's a lack of variety in enemies and the environment. Floors are too big and take too long. Slowly running through them is boring.

Raids and Dungeons:
Pro: Really like the environments and mechanics
Con: Gear rewards are too little.

PVP:
Pro: return of gear vendors and upgrading them is great.
Con: Balance (what else is new) and the lack of tuning patches.

Covenants:
Pro: I love the sanctum upgrades, cosmetics, and optional covenant games such as the abomination factory.
Cons: A lot of time-gating for pretty much everything. Covenant powers are not balanced, with some classes being just straight up awful (RIP Necrolord DHs)

[Puupi]

Mandatory in what way? What you call a chore, others call content.

It is mandatory, unique character power is tied to those REPEATABLE daily/weekly chores.

Except for covenant campaigns - which are a chore too when you are doing them on your eg. 4th venthyr like me.

Character power should be acquired from gear only, just like it was in WoW from vanilla until legion, when AP grind was introduced. BFA went full retard with the azerite, essence and corruption systems and shadowlands continues this trend.

[Argorwal]

It is mandatory, unique character power is tied to those REPEATABLE daily/weekly chores.

Except for covenant campaigns - which are a chore too when you are doing them on your eg. 4th venthyr like me.

Character power should be acquired from gear only, just like it was in WoW from vanilla until legion, when AP grind was introduced. BFA went full retard with the azerite, essence and corruption systems and shadowlands continues this trend.

Wont you get caught up in renown just doing dungeons/raids and PvP?

Alternate power gains used to be asked for years, guess players “thought they did...”

[aceperson]

No, that is an issue with players - That is not Blizzards fault.

but it is though. this is what the community for wow has become. blizzard didn't try to fight it when this mentality was forming in wrath and thus it has become the standard. blizz have to design their game around this now and failing to do so only angers the player base. those who feel they have to deal with people who can't be bothered to learn the game as well as those who feel they are punished for trying to have fun. this IS blizzards fault. blizz made this system knowing full well what would happen and decided to leave it as is anyways.

you want a link to dps differentials? https://bloodmallet.com/chart/hunter...stingpatchwerk this is one for hunters. you can go back to the home page and see one for every class. notice how there is a 392 dps difference between the best soulbind for night fae and revendreth? a couple hundred dps is a massive difference in this day and age with the newly squished numbers.

https://bloodmallet.com/chart/hunter...ecticaddcleave here is the difference when you go by aoe standards. the is more than twice as big, nearing a 1k dps difference. and even if you compare night fae to kyrian, only one kyrian soulbind even breaks into the top 3 for single target and doesn't for aoe with night fae holding all 3 top spots. that is imbalanced and helps force this mentality of kicking the people who aren't in their optimal covenant.

(quote) Im sure there are issues like you spoke of where players behave like assholes, but overall, i think a large portion of players are not getting invites for other reasons, and just looking for an excuse. (quote)

that sounds like an excuse on your part to just wave away the points i bring up with valid data to back it up. everything has a purpose and needs to be thought out. you are honestly no better than the console/pc master race idiots. console serves a different audience than pc but choosing a console or pc over the other isn't "freedom". it's a choice that comes with consequences such as not being able to play many console exclusives. you can choose to 'not believe' people are getting declined and kicked for the covenant choices all you want but that doesn't make it reality. if what a persons feels was relevant, then trump pretending covid didn't exist for the first 3 months wouldn't have led to 200k+ dead. the fact of the matter is there are people who do it in my current guild and my former guild master even swapped covenants because she couldn't find a group in higher rated pvp willing to take her because she wasn't a night fae druid. that is a FACT and no matter how much you choose to ignore it being real, doesn't make it stop being real.

i also want to point out you didn't even bother on touching ANY of the points i brought to the question you asked in regards to me. is it because you think it wasn't worth answering? or is it the more likely case that i was being truthful in what i said and you couldn't easily sweep my points under the rug as just some idiot so you decided to ignore them? you need to pull your head out of your butt and learn that choices come with consequences so a choice in an mmo shouldn't include massive differences in power.

[Archmage Alodi]

It's still a good experience overall, specially now that I can easily play alts. There are a few problems such as m+ being unrewarding and Anima scarcity, callings are worthless as well.

[Puupi]

Wont you get caught up in renown just doing dungeons/raids and PvP?

No, you don't catch up the campaign quest line (which rewards 9 renown total).

[Argorwal]

No, you don't catch up the campaign quest line (which rewards 9 renown total).

I thought that was only when you were caught up to within 3 of the latest renown?

[Puupi]

I thought that was only when you were caught up to within 3 of the latest renown?

Currently you can't catch up covenant campaign quest line renown and those two weekly renown quests (souls, anima).

So if you haven't done any of those, your renown cap is 15 - the missing 11 points come from those weekly quests and covenant campaign.

Here, a wowhead link if you don't believe my word:

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/how-t...in-shadowlands

Catch-up Renown only replaces those points you would have normally earned doing the two weekly quests, but didn't because you didn't play the character that week(s), your character was too low, or you lost them due to switching Covenants.

Catch-up Renown can't be used to replace:

• The 2 points from the two current weekly quests ((Quest #61324) and Return Lost Souls)
• The 9 total points you will earn from doing your 9-chapter Covenant Campaign

[vipers]

I hate maw and WQ to get 35 anima and only reason to login is to do daily quest and that's it

[gutnbrg]

ive played since mid TBC, was super hardcore during wotlk, im pretty casual now and i have no idea whats going on in SL...its kind of annoying bc i still pay attention but i literally have 0 idea what im doing when it comes to quest or why im doing it...and im not complaining, im juts adding to the convo

[arkanon]

i also want to point out you didn't even bother on touching ANY of the points i brought to the question you asked in regards to me.

you mean this?

I just don't like wow pvp.

for m+, the loot drops are so scare and varied.

lastly, i don't do mythic raiding.

How did you want me to reply to "i dont do those things"?