SL after the honeymoon phase

[Lolites]

I thought loot was already non-exsistant (Spelling?) in raids currently as well?

but you shouldnt expect there any as there are other reason to raid... right?
gear from raid is less scarce, and at least difficulty level appropriate, M+ (except weekly chest that is SHARED with raid and pvp) not so much...
so runing M+ for less AND worse loot than raid should be fine as there are are other reasons to run it, not just "loot pinata", but from raid you should get all that AND good gear AND option in vault?
seems a bit... unequal

and sure, you can run m+ more, but if your goal is loot there is no point you can do thousand m+15 and the little gear you actualy get will still be worse than hc raid...

[Lei]

People need to stop treating M+ as a loot pinata.

M+ is fun because of pushing higher keys, faster times and increasing raider.io score.

Or for adding slots to the vault.

Going into M+ and expecting loot is dumb af.

You are right, in a way. When the devs put a new system in, they tend to oversell it so people get addicted to it, and they build it in to their everyday wow gaming lifestyle. Think mission table gold fuckup in WoD and to a lesser extent in Legion, and M+-es in Legion. I guess it's hard to adapt for some people as the rules change in a whim. I don't even blame them for it.

[RemasteredClassic]

I’m quite used to the whole ”Do daily stuff and then log off” mentality after playing classic WoW and also KR games like BnS & BDO.

Personally don’t really know why people don’t like it when blizz limits you, Keeps 24/7 people from getting too far a head and just relieves (Again.., spelling?) some of the stress with ”Keeping up”.

You're comparing a paid+sub game to b2p games...

[Nalam the Venom]

but you shouldnt expect there any as there are other reason to raid... right?
gear from raid is less scarce, and at least difficulty level appropriate, M+ (except weekly chest that is SHARED with raid and pvp) not so much...
so runing M+ for less AND worse loot than raid should be fine as there are are other reasons to run it, not just "loot pinata", but from raid you should get all that AND good gear AND option in vault?
seems a bit... unequal

and sure, you can run m+ more, but if your goal is loot there is no point you can do thousand m+15 and the little gear you actualy get will still be worse than hc raid...

As isaid before, The sctual loot from M+ is next to useless, So i only see it as a way to get weekly 220+ from vault and to increase .io score.

- - - Updated - - -

You're comparing a paid+sub game to b2p games...

I’ve always had WoW sub since 2006, The cost is not something i ever take into considerstion, As WoW has EXTREMLY low content for money if you expect Single player game level of content from your expansion purchase.

Also expansion adds a lot of content during gear long times, But if you expect ”content” in itself to last more than a few hrs, WoW is tge wrong game for that, WoW is mostly for repetative stuff to do daily/weekly.

[Lolites]

As isaid before, The sctual loot from M+ is next to useless, So i only see it as a way to get weekly 220+ from vault and to increase .io score.

then why not do the same with raid? you said people shouldnt expect gear from m+ bcs there are other reason to run it, and you get weekly reward from chest, HOW is raid different?

either all engdame content should give gear or none, maybe putting some "weekly cap" on gear drops from M+ would be better idea

[Nalam the Venom]

then why not do the same with raid? you said people shouldnt expect gear from m+ bcs there are other reason to run it, and you get weekly reward from chest, HOW is raid different?

either all engdame content should give gear or none, maybe putting some "weekly cap" on gear drops from M+ would be better idea

I think they see raids as more ”Exclusive” with it having mechs to learn, making them overall harder and M+ being easy AF, and also raids having weekly lockout.

[RemasteredClassic]

As isaid before, The sctual loot from M+ is next to useless, So i only see it as a way to get weekly 220+ from vault and to increase .io score.

- - - Updated - - -



I’ve always had WoW sub since 2006, The cost is not something i ever take into considerstion, As WoW has EXTREMLY low content for money if you expect Single player game level of content from your expansion purchase.

Also expansion adds a lot of content during gear long times, But if you expect ”content” in itself to last more than a few hrs, WoW is tge wrong game for that, WoW is mostly for repetative stuff to do daily/weekly.

You just convinced at least half the world's population why they should avoid WoW....

[Lolites]

I think they see raids as more ”Exclusive” with it having mechs to learn, making them overall harder and M+ being easy AF, and also raids having weekly lockout.

yeah the horrible mechanics of hc raid are more difficult than timing M+15... sure
weekly lockout shouldnt be problem in "new" system, only gear from weekly chest, you can raid to your heart desire without any loot and then get single piece, same as M+, that would be better right, you would still get gear and you could run raid multiple times a week for those other reasons

[Nalam the Venom]

You just convinced at least half the world's population why they should avoid WoW....

I never considered Raids, Dungeons, Story etc as the reason to buy or play an expansion.. seems pretty silly imo

- - - Updated - - -

yeah the horrible mechanics of hc raid are more difficult than timing M+15... sure
weekly lockout shouldnt be problem in "new" system, only gear from weekly chest, you can raid to your heart desire without any loot and then get single piece, same as M+, that would be better right, you would still get gear and you could run raid multiple times a week for those other reasons

M+ is just same thing but it hurts more.

So i’m far more confidant doing a M+ than heroic raids.

You also only raid for loot, While plenty of other reasons to do M+

[Lolites]

You also only raid for loot, While plenty of other reasons to do M+

no, you dont only raid for loot (well maybe YOU do), there are plenty other reason and i already mentioned some... so why those "other" reasons are good enough rewards for M+ but not for raid?
and some people only want to run M+ for loot, should they get more loot than people who run it for other reasons?

seems like you didnt think the whole "people shouldnt expect loot from M+" through...

[Nalam the Venom]

no, you dont only raid for loot (well maybe YOU do), there are plenty other reason and i already mentioned some... so why those "other" reasons are good enough rewards for M+ but not for raid?
and some people only want to run M+ for loot, should they get more loot than people who run it for other reasons?

seems like you didnt think the whole "people shouldnt expect loot from M+" through...

You really need to ask these things directly to blizzard.. i’ve already given you my reasonings.

[Osmeric]

If you're having a problem with repetitive content in an MMO, you shouldn't be playing MMO's.

And now I'm not.

This still feels to me like an expansion WoW will not recover from.

[Santas]

There's never any honeymoon phase for me at least, I always have my feet on the ground, guess I'm boring like that. Also, super busy in life, I am in no position to burn through the content -- so I'm still having a blast.

[Alvito]

The Maw and everything in it is a glorious waste of time. Pvp is a mess right now. Of course once they announce Brian Holinka was coming back everybody should have realized they were going to pump out some trash content. Not only due to Holinka, but if they think he is the answer to fix things it shows how lost they truly are right now.

[mojusk]

im ok with loot being more scarce now that titanforging is gone, but m+ needs more loot.
before and during the titanforging era, dungeons were a source of pre-raid bis, filling the last slots with decent gear.
but atm with only 1-2 piece of loot per dung, m+ is a complete waste of time, if your goal is to get loot from the end chest.
m+ should either drop more loot or reward a currency like valor points, to buy 210 gear from a vendor.

raid loot drop rate is fine imo, the scarcity felt bad in the beginning, but now that my guildies and i are getting close to having full 226 gear. we can start trading gear to fill out the last slots and even aim for bis stats. it wont be long before theres barely any upgrades left to get, except for the last 2 bosses. this is my pov as a semi-hardcore raider, i know itll be different for players who havnt progressed as far as i.
would be nice if raids also dropped valor, to make the beginning of a raid tier feel less bad.

i dont do much pvp, but afaik its gearing system is good, but it also needs some way to fill the slots with decent gear. its weird that rank 1 pvpers still have 184s equipped.
id also like if unranked pvp gear could be upgraded up to 210.

i get the argument that the optimal way of getting gear is to do everything, but it would still be nice if it was a little less suboptimal to only play 1-2 aspects of the game.

torghast was fun, but now that ive cleared twisiting corridors itll become choreghast pretty soon. i would like if it dropped loot aswell though, maybe up to 210 for a weekly layer 8 normal torghast and weekly layer 8 TC. and valor rewards aswell.

[Puupi]

"gear only" he says, completely disregarding that in classic most character power came from world buffs and consumables, especially at the beginning. Also the renowned system is not tied to daily/weekly chores. You get renown from raids, dungeons, world bosses... You just have to be a week behind, which is not a big deal at all, since the week by week upgrades are incredibly minor if at all existant. Add ontop of that, that the difference between not having any renown and full renown is very, very minor.

Yet another one who doesn't know how renown catch up works even when I posted a direct link and a quote from wowhead's guide explaining it.

I'll repeat: no, you can't catch up campaign quest and current weekly quest renown. If you don't do those things, you are 11 renown behind.

[LordVargK]

Yet another one who doesn't know how renown catch up works even when I posted a direct link and a quote from wowhead's guide explaining it.

I'll repeat: no, you can't catch up campaign quest and current weekly quest renown. If you don't do those things, you are 11 renown behind.

Well, the campaign is not tied to daily/weekly tasks now, is it? Yes, you will always be 2 renown behind, I already said that. But the statement that renown is tied to daily/weekly tasks is completely false.
And sure, you have to so some quests. Like any expansion before and any expansion there will ever be. Or you just live with the fact that you're 11 renown behind, because, again: the power you get from renown is minimal.

Think of any of the legendaries before Legion. Yes, even the vanilla ones. They provided much more benefit and required much more work than renown does. We essentially have the easiest system to get any character to (comparatively) max power we ever had. And still people are whining.

[TheFirstOnes]

I personally like it more Legion and BFA combined. I'd say it's on the level of Cata atm. Ok story, with good raids, fun dungeons, and great PVP. There are SOME things hindering it from being MoP/Wrath levels tho, imo. For example: The Maw is absolute hell to go through (Guess that makes sense lore-wise tbh lmao, but from a GAMEPLAY perspective, it's bad), and there's nothing from the Maw that's worthwhile. Torghast gets repetitive and it's also incredibly long and half of the time absolutely not worth it (Especially when you get to the bosses). Outside of those two, class balance could be better. Seriously, sometimes in PVP, Hunters and Shamans are absolute beasts when battling opponents, especially in arena. My last big concern is that PVE gear drops are absolute ass. Please either up the rates slightly, or give us badges or Valor points (I'd prefer BOTH, but whatever).

Outside of those 4 issues, I'm having a blast with the expansion. Renown is even easy to do, and I was mostly scared for that shit ever since hearing its announcement. Thank god we have no AP grinds, scaling, etc. That shit was ass in Legion, and it was even worse in BFA. Oh, and regarding BFA, for the love of fuck nerf those raids. Seriously, how the fuck is mythic Eternal Palace as hard as Nathria? That's not supposed to be the case.

- - - Updated - - -

The Maw and everything in it is a glorious waste of time. Pvp is a mess right now. Of course once they announce Brian Holinka was coming back everybody should have realized they were going to pump out some trash content. Not only due to Holinka, but if they think he is the answer to fix things it shows how lost they truly are right now.

Really? Outside of weird class balance and...WINTERGRASP...

I am having a massive blast with Shadowlands PVP. I'll take all this overpowering and PVP gear being worth it over PVP scaling and HoA shit.

[keelr]

The Maw and everything in it is a glorious waste of time. Pvp is a mess right now. Of course once they announce Brian Holinka was coming back everybody should have realized they were going to pump out some trash content. Not only due to Holinka, but if they think he is the answer to fix things it shows how lost they truly are right now.

i super hardly disagree with you about pvp, but not suprised that some people have this opinion who mostly got into pvp in the previous expansions. The pvp design went away from the low damage output that the previous expansions had (which caused the games to go super demp since healers could top someone after eating 14sec of CC). The only big problem rn with pvp is Holy paladin, and that causes some games to go dampening.

[OrcsRLame]

The think I hate more than ever (and I thought it couldn't get w0rse than some Legion zones or Naz) is the sheer maze-like structure to navigate places, with Revendreth bing just a shitshow. It might look beautiful in the blood and gothic ruins way...but all the times I am at a quest or NPC marker and find out I have to navigate in a huge detour to also get up like three levels? And ofc through zones with a big mob density?

Yeah...maybe there are people who find this immersive and love the danger? It is just the worst ever.

My dps alts have a saddle blanket, my alts with a tank specc switch to that....so at least the daze and dismount can be neutralized. Which made me scream in frustration befor I get it. In those zones a dismount usually also mean a corpserun.

Pro tip for Revendreth. There's these little red castles all over the map. Those castles mark the elevators. Also, staying high up and using the bridges is almost always faster and easier than coming at an area from the ground level.