Covenants arent that bad as you think

[Makabreska]

Saying "you don't have to min/max" is only true if you don't enjoy min/maxing. It's like saying "X isn't undertuned, just take off your trinkets and its fine". Technically you don't need to min/max to raid either, hey you can just cost your raid more pulls cause everyone enjoys that in raids. Personally i am weird and enjoy trying to maximize my prep and effort for raids.

My class (monk) has had a 10% variance in single target between the best and worst options (and the bad option falls even further in aoe), i don't know how that's somehow just "fine" to take. It doesn't shine in any situation. The gap is even larger in something like hunters.

I completely agree that in theory any covenant would be fine, as long as they did any balancing at all with them, but they simply have not. Their logic of "we don't want to touch them so that people don't feel like they made the wrong choice" doesn't make much sense to me. The only reason i wanted to swap was cause they did not balance them.

Well, let Blizz suddenly do Cov balancing and witness the outrage from the player base, feeling forced to quickly swap and grind Renown. Because of no balancing after launch, it was clear early on which Cov will perform best in any given situation, so a little research and you are good to go. And they said they will balance it when releasing content patches.

[Dristereau]

I don't really like the feature because it just feels bad sometimes if you don't have that ability or can't get the sets you would like to use.

I'm happy with my Death Knight. I was always going to be Necrolord, I liked the ability and it was an easy choice. The same for my Druid, Convoke is dumb and Ardenweald fits Druid. My Warlock however, has also gone Night Fae. Why? Because I honestly armoried every other Warlock I knew who PVP/PVE'd and every one I saw at that time was Night Fae. I prefered the Kyrian ability, and loved the idea of the Necrolord set. But if Night Fae is the way to go for PVE and PVP, I will take it.

For my Warrior, I went Kyrian for the Spear. I feel that if I wanted to Raid or do M+ on it I would be at a disadvantage for not having Condemn and sometimes in PVP I wonder should I have gone Venthyr. Also I'm yet to see a Necrolord Warrior.

I'll also end up being Night Fae on my Mage too likely and many others I've already mainly decided due to their Spec and majority. Besides my Death Knight, none of the other Classes will be Necrolord. I'm looking at two Venthyr (Priest/Shaman) and everything else is Kyrian/Night Fae. Some of my Alts of each Class will go to the Covenants I'm missing sets for and unlock them in the hopes I can use them in 10.0. I'd like to use the Necrolord Cloth/Mail and Venthyr Plate on some characters some day after Shadowlands.

[Makabreska]

Yes, and generally those players have hilariously stupid takes as part of their reasoning for why people should "stop overreacting". You know, like Max' constant idiocy about how if you're not competing for world first, you shouldn't worry about min/maxing your comp or your spec choice or whatever. That's just straight up wrong. Top guilds min/max in order to overcome lack of knowledge of the fights and (in the past) being undergeared, worse guilds min/max in order to compensate for worse play.

And please do remind me how long it took before they finally went back to how gear was before they started ruining it? Oh right, 4 years of titanforging and another 4 years of warforging before that. It took them almost a decade to finally figure out that RNG ilevels were a mistake.

I don't think top guilds are lacking fight knowledge from all the PTR testing they do. And yes, people fixate too much about min-maxing and too little about actually playing properly during encounters. So many times I saw mongs screaming at others for non-optimal build while said players were performing well. And I'm quite sure it was Corrupted experiment reception that made Blizz move away from gear system, since WF/TF was already nerfed substantially.

[saixilein]

So what you're saying is that starting today/tomorrow, people should start complaining that there's nothing to do because checks notes there's no more Covenant campaign quests? What kind of trash logic is that? The actual content people spend their time on would still be there even if covenants were fully cosmetic. You know, raids, dungeons, PvP, world quests, farming transmogs, pet battles etc. And if amount of available content was the goal, we'd be allowed to easily switch between covenants so we could do all the quests/minigames for each covenant.

There are MANY people out there who dont do 24/7 progress. They logging in for Raid and logging out. The other days they do some daylies, some grindstuff maybe a dungeon and then waiting for the next raid.

Covenants give you stuff to do, ofc you can rush it and finish the weeklystuff in about 1h, but most people dont do that. Guys like u think that 90% of the Community are progress oriented Wannabes, but the truth is: The most arent. They playing for fun, wanna do stuff and get rewards thats not spaming m+ on hardcore for hours.

[Tradu]

I don't think top guilds are lacking fight knowledge from all the PTR testing they do. And yes, people fixate too much about min-maxing and too little about actually playing properly during encounters. So many times I saw mongs screaming at others for non-optimal build while said players were performing well. And I'm quite sure it was Corrupted experiment reception that made Blizz move away from gear system, since WF/TF was already nerfed substantially.

Nobody outside of Blizzard had seen mythic Denathrius before Limit and Echo got there, so they definitely lacked fight knowledge. And even if they did know the mechanics of the fight, that's still 2 guilds' worth of knowledge. Compare that to now, where you have over 50 guilds that killed the boss and another 20 or so working on it. That's a lot more people trying things, adapting strategies etc that the world first guilds simply didn't have access to.

- - - Updated - - -

There are MANY people out there who dont do 24/7 progress. They logging in for Raid and logging out. The other days they do some daylies, some grindstuff maybe a dungeon and then waiting for the next raid.

Covenants give you stuff to do, ofc you can rush it and finish the weeklystuff in about 1h, but most people dont do that. Guys like u think that 90% of the Community are progress oriented Wannabes, but the truth is: The most arent. They playing for fun, wanna do stuff and get rewards thats not spaming m+ on hardcore for hours.

I know that most people don't play the same way I do or have the same goals. I'm just saying that your argument of "if covenants were only cosmetics people would be crying there's no content" is silly, because the non-cosmetic part of covenants doesn't take up a lot of time. 30 minutes of campaign each week until now, the rest is all cosmetic or passive progression you get from doing other content. Covenants aren't what provide you with content, 95%+ of it would be there even if covenants were removed.

[Makabreska]

Nobody outside of Blizzard had seen mythic Denathrius before Limit and Echo got there, so they definitely lacked fight knowledge. And even if they did know the mechanics of the fight, that's still 2 guilds' worth of knowledge. Compare that to now, where you have over 50 guilds that killed the boss and another 20 or so working on it. That's a lot more people trying things, adapting strategies etc that the world first guilds simply didn't have access to.

Ok, so that's one fight in 10 man raid. And they are by no means going in blind. HC mode and data-mining exist.

[Tradu]

Ok, so that's one fight in 10 man raid. And they are by no means going in blind. HC mode and data-mining exist.

Even on other bosses, they have less time and data to develop their strategies than later guilds do. It's very common that better strategies get figured out much later, because there's simply been more people trying random shit.

[Accendor]

Lol. Conv are great imo. No need to switch between tbh. If u wanna do world race first or other competition maybe u should but its pretty not that bid deal. Just pick that u like ><

Its really not pick what you like. Not at all. Pick the best is more fitting.

[Zyky]

People cried before launch and still cry you have to swap covenants every time you did different content (m+, raiding, PvP) but this isn't the case for most people and everyone should just pick one and not swapping it every week.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...ious_covenant/

Here is long QQ post in reddit during beta that you have to swap every other night if you wanted to to different content but I can tell you: just pick one and stay on it it doesn't matter if it's not the best for PvP or M+ you'll just fine.

For many specs there is a best one for M+ that doesn't line up for raids or PvP. You are forced into a shitty position if you like playing multiple forms of content. A fantastic example I can give you is Marksman Hunter; the raid and M+ covenant is Night Fae, but if you're not Kyrian for PvP you're going to struggle to get high rating and if you're Kyrian in M+ or raids you're gimping yourself about 6% in raids and worse in M+.

[Dystemper]

The entire expansion is garbage

[Doffen]

Absolutely love it

[confety]

Since vanilla some classes have been better than others, the problem is that now i can be a 90% log destrolock doing a bit less dps than a ww or a affl at 50% just because i picked the covenant i liked the most and now i cant even respec to aff without changing covenant and losing buildings, mission table follower levels, and all the renown. Even if i just change spec it would be useless without the covenant.

So this is more of a "you can choose between being a competent dps or taking the one you like and handicapping yourself on purpose".

This is going way further than just choosing a class and a spec.

OFC if you dont play mythic you wouldnt care too much, but you still know you could do better and you dont, its the same for me if i go to raid without consumables, i COULD do better without doing anything extra, but i dont want to do that because of reasons.

class specific covenant abilities should have been able to be chosen regardless of covenant, just change the damn colour, every kyrian spell is blue, every necrolord is green.

covenants is for me a massive failure

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The only real hole I see in them is the 5 man stuff for M+. You can be good enough. You can be geared enough. You can be experienced enough. Proven in every way. But.. sorry our group needs cov X Y or Z. Because their certainly is a meta to these things (and I know its not required, but when you are talking 15 keys + it matters) so certain classes are siloed into covs. Not to mention certain classes get siloed in as the classes required. Gets kind of messy up there.

But that is a pretty small problem. Aside from that its just the flavor of the expansion borrowed power.. but.. whatever. Really no major problems.

[crusadernero]

Well it all depends. If you dont give a shit about how your character performes, it really dont matter. Just pick what you want.

BUT - at any level of play in wow, your choices do matter. If you do low end dungeons, raids, pvp - You still get effected by this choice. If you picked wrong, your class/Spec are worse off.

lets say you only do random bgs. Why wouldnt you pick the covenant that makes the experience more fun and better for you? Why would you handicap your character by picking something that is bad?

If you decide midway in SL that you want to push into more difficult content, you gotta change and farm covenant stuff again. If you dont, people wont take you.

[Violent]

People cried before launch and still cry you have to swap covenants every time you did different content (m+, raiding, PvP) but this isn't the case for most people and everyone should just pick one and not swapping it every week.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...ious_covenant/

Here is long QQ post in reddit during beta that you have to swap every other night if you wanted to to different content but I can tell you: just pick one and stay on it it doesn't matter if it's not the best for PvP or M+ you'll just fine.

Well of course..
Because unless you're a random casual, there's a very clear Cove. to have and the rest, to not.
It's not that we didn't have "faith" in said system..
It's that it fuckin SUCKS.

[Valette]

Covenants are far worse than you think. Here's why - start playing Necrolord Demon Hunter, Necrolord Holy/Prot Paladin, Night Fae Shadow Priest. Then try actually good covenants with those specs, and tell me again how covenants are not failure.

All covenants are very close together for spriest, and by most accounts nightfae is considered to be slightly ahead the other three, not sure what you're on about

Edit: For pve. Venthyr is by far the best pvp one, thats true.

[Icelin]

Wow someone did a great job with this ensemble. The shield complements the whole set perfectly. It's close to flawless. I really enjoyed the plate and mail armor. I can post a screenshot here, so I figured I would. I'm naturally more drawn to other covenants and my other girls do enjoy them. (Also some of the armors.) Still someone did a great job with the mounts and sets from Maldraxxus that I got pulled to try it on another character. I like to call her my necromonger. So that is good work.

[kiramon]

Well, that is what they did at first. Now, they do not even bother. Most boomkin are NF, most fire mages are NF, and so on. Imagine the rage if they nerfed the NF covenants now. You have such a dps output difference between covenants it would be a total shitstorm.

Night fae in general has the best for most classes- and randomly the only early 2x potency lol

[Santas]

Yeah, I mean, sure? However, one can not deny the fact that covenants are extremely imbalanced right now, not even close to anything they promised us.

[Makabreska]

Yeah, I mean, sure? However, one can not deny the fact that covenants are extremely imbalanced right now, not even close to anything they promised us.

Did they actually ever promised it will be balanced for all content?