M+ and Raider.IO

[Tadkins]

I'm honestly not a fan of raiderio. It makes me feel like I'm not a person, but a number, and if you don't have the correct number you're worthless as a human player. For me at least, it's turned M+ from something that should be fun into a hyperstressful rat race.

I'm also too nervous to start my own keys and try to break in on that scene. I don't think there are any welcoming M+ communities for folks like me with anxiety, depression and confidence issues, so for the most part I plan to just stick with LFR and heroic dungeons when I come back to the game. Plus avoid PvP entirely because just doing those mentioned forms of content is only going to get me killed repeatedly there, with the bad gear to be received from them.

[Ilookfly]

this is kind of interesting as a statement, because it gets to a deeper side issue - that there are several aspects of wow that are shifting away from the fundamental core design that was part of how and why the game was built in the first place, from the ground up.

wow has always been the lincoln logs version of everquest - it's basically the same game in nearly every way, except that it's built specifically to be more casual friendly.
this was literally the stated design goal when wow was first announced, a huge part of its cultural presence at the time was the layman's version of a game that many people had an issue with for being too hard and requiring too much investment to be able to play.
huge aspects to wow's interactivity on a difficulty scale were directly influenced by the fact that the current everquest expansion at the time, gates of discord, was brutally and often soul-crushingly difficult, and so wow came along and said "hey... here's an MMO you can play that doesn't require dedicated grouping above level 10 and where higher end gameplay isn't absolutely dictated by a class based meta"

it's kind of fascinating to watch how that pretty much held true until a couple expansions ago, when that started to creep into wow in a pretty significant way.
i don't think it's completely unreasonable for people who have been playing a game predicated on a certain interaction model are having concerns about the changing dynamics of how being able to play said game works on a day to day basis.

- - - Updated - - -


ok... and?

If io was removed ppl would just check your armory and then decline you instead.

[Avrantia]

I'm honestly not a fan of raiderio. It makes me feel like I'm not a person, but a number, and if you don't have the correct number you're worthless as a human player. For me at least, it's turned M+ from something that should be fun into a hyperstressful rat race.

I'm also too nervous to start my own keys and try to break in on that scene. I don't think there are any welcoming M+ communities for folks like me with anxiety, depression and confidence issues, so for the most part I plan to just stick with LFR and heroic dungeons when I come back to the game. Plus avoid PvP entirely because just doing those mentioned forms of content is only going to get me killed repeatedly there.

There are actually. Both Zen Horde and Scared of Dungeons. Check them out!

[Tadkins]

There are actually. Both Zen Horde and Scared of Dungeons. Check them out!

Interesting. The names themselves sound hopeful. I'll look into it more, thank you.

[Malkiah]

If io was removed ppl would just check your armory and then decline you instead.

and that would also be stupid.

the existence of something else equally stupid doesn't make the first thing not stupid.

[evertonbelmontt]

Find a guild where you belong and this whole thing won't matter.

If you for whatever reason insists on pugs, then you have to abide by their rules or make your own group.

R.I.O. is fine, its fun and informative. If you don't get many invites, again, consider finding a great guild for yourself.

[ellieg]

Find a guild where you belong and this whole thing won't matter.

If you for whatever reason insists on pugs, then you have to abide by their rules or make your own group.

R.I.O. is fine, its fun and informative. If you don't get many invites, again, consider finding a great guild for yourself.

Really wish I could find a guild. I'm on a low pop server and joined the only 10/10 heroic guild. I can't make their raid schedule and they are cliquish. They are doing 15s and im doing 12s as a frost dk and they don't want me because of that lol. I need to find an actual community that would help

[Magneto]

if m+ wouldnt have a time penalty , now thats when things would change, but then again it is the only option that makes m+ what it is.

[Exquis]

To me it's a double edged sword. Rio score and other similar things can help good players find similar people to push higher keys without premades, but it also creates a space in which people place absurd demands on the score of others to be invited into groups - usually way above their own. The leaderboards etc also help create an overexaggerated meta, where people look at leaderboards and only accept classes that are deemed to be meta. Finding pugs as any dps other than boomie/fire/hunter is multiple times harder, regardless of your score - simply because they are way overrepresented.

It also creates a setting that makes it very hard for returning players to catch up (Through pugs). Because you're usually expected to have a much higher score than the content requires (or would reward on completion).

- - - Updated - - -

It’s not like this. Apart from ppl that play 25 hours on 24, no one is mad enough to build his rio doing every dungeon, then every dungeon +1 until they have made let’s say 8 dungeons at level 9.

People go by brackets. They do 2-3 in the beginning, when they are geared enough they move to the 4-6 bracket and do some, until they are geared enough to move in 7-9 bracket and so on.

But it’s not that “you have to do every dungeon +3 in time in order to be accepted for the 4-6 bracket”. Below level 10, that is the first real barrier, routes and mechanics are the same, the only variable are affixes, but once you know what they do and try 2/3 dungeons , you’re all set.

If I am geared enough there’s no reason I can’t be invited in a 9 if I have that dungeon at 7 max, it’s the same dungeon with mobs that hit harder.

It is like that though. Having done a 10 doesnt get you invited to 15's, even if a 10 teaches you all the affixes, routes and mechanics you might need for a 15.

[Greengrim]

Raider IO helps just as much as it doesn't help honestly.

I like the fact that I can see who's coming in when I'm making the groups. But I hate it when I can't get into +14/15 groups with over 1000 rio. Especially when I know for sure that I can WRECK or at the very least stay on parr with ppl who push +17 and above.

[Baapp]

Raider IO helps just as much as it doesn't help honestly.

I like the fact that I can see who's coming in when I'm making the groups. But I hate it when I can't get into +14/15 groups with over 1000 rio. Especially when I know for sure that I can WRECK or at the very least stay on parr with ppl who push +17 and above.

Agree with you 100%. Getting declined cuz ur low rio, despite knowing ur fairly decent sucks. Then again, i would never invite someone without the appropiate rio too any of my 17 keys. As a tank i only started too kite around key lvl 14, i only started too kick the right spells around key lvl 15/16, and only now in 17s do i save and use my CDs for specific packs/spells/bosses.

As you climb the ladder, you learn new things that werent even present in the "lower" keys. It takes failure too learn, so why would i want too take someone who hasent gone thro the grinder yet into a "high key"?

A prime exampel as too why i dont take low score people. I got a 1k rio druid into my SD 16 key the other night, and we struggled with the timer because our dps was on the low side, and we dident have any gr8 ways too deal with spiteful, so i went for a dubble pack with 3 ghouls and a gargylo. And the druid dident even use Vortex on the ghouls, so after i ran out of rolls and cds i got clappet hard. Had he failed there once or twice before, the vortex would have come out a lot earlier. The same druid also never used any sort of root/mass root on the spiteful too save time, probably becouse it had never been a problem in his earlier grps.

[Greengrim]

...so why would i want too take someone who hasent gone thro the grinder yet...

Take me on one of your keys and I will show you EXACTLY why.

I haven't even timed a single +15 yet. I main DK.

[Baapp]

The things is i used too think exactly like that while i was doings 14s. The difficulty ramps up quite a lot after that.

Obviously there are people who are just a lot better then their rio score would indicate, if ur not putting in the hours u wont get the score u deserve. Gridning the rio is just as much about the time u spend, as the skill u have. Pushing every key takes forever.

But why even take the risk of someone who has low score when i can get another 20 dps sign up in a matter of minutes who have the rio and better/the same gear?

[chiddie]

To me it's a double edged sword. Rio score and other similar things can help good players find similar people to push higher keys without premades, but it also creates a space in which people place absurd demands on the score of others to be invited into groups - usually way above their own. The leaderboards etc also help create an overexaggerated meta, where people look at leaderboards and only accept classes that are deemed to be meta. Finding pugs as any dps other than boomie/fire/hunter is multiple times harder, regardless of your score - simply because they are way overrepresented.

It also creates a setting that makes it very hard for returning players to catch up (Through pugs). Because you're usually expected to have a much higher score than the content requires (or would reward on completion).

- - - Updated - - -




It is like that though. Having done a 10 doesnt get you invited to 15's, even if a 10 teaches you all the affixes, routes and mechanics you might need for a 15.

10-15 probably not, but 10-12 or 10-13, probably yes.

[tikcol]

It's fun, you farm ilevel and score. Even if you don't get gear you hopefully get score which helps you find better groups which makes getting gear easier.

What a wonderful effort reward system i love it

[Aphrel]

I feel like the problem is ignorance. The ppl that complain about the .io score simply doesnt understand what it is.

What its not: An indication of skill, gear, dps/hps.

What it is: A receit of your past experiences, thats it. Its the equivalent to ahead of the curve in raids, nothing more, nothing less.

So if your hating o the .io addon. Im sure you hate the raid achievements aswell... Except oddly enough, i don't see many threads hating on the raid achievments. I wonder why... could it be because OP might be onto something and these ppl are just butthurt over being rejected?

The real culprit when it comes to pugging m+ is the players perspective of the meta. Its the fact that the majority of groups out there is gonna pick a mage or hunter over a lock. A monk over a rogue. Or a dk over a warr. Even if the non meta player is higher in score and in ilvl, ppl will still often pick the meta classes even thou neither lock, rouge or warrs are bad in m+, they're actually great.

The second culprit is blizzard, who in their outstanding ignorance of the game keeps putting up barriers every expansion so that players who have tank/healing specs are being hindered to tank/heal efficiently. Combined with the fact that raids requires a large amount of dps but few tanks this leads to the current situation of there always being a lack of heal/tanks and an excess of dps.
Which becomes a miserable experience for any dpsers who tries to pug m+, because regardless of what the requirements are, if you are a dps you are gonna be competing against so many other dps for that spot... leading to alot of ppl being rejected even if they woudlve been good enough for the content.

Tl;dr Some players have a warped view on how powerful some classes are, some players are ignorant of what the io score is, and blizzard is to blame for the lack of tanks and healers. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

[Greengrim]

...But why even..

Like I said, throw me into a +17 and I will demonstrate "why".

The fact that I have too many responsibilities to take care of while away from my PC, and much more fun things to do when I'm on it, than grind retarded rio points, doesn't mean I can't execute mechanics flawlessly and end decent (+14) runs with 6-7k overall dps without multipullis, and with less than 80k avoidable damage taken.

[Baapp]

Well then you should find some other people who are in a simular situation as yourself, and get some higher keys done.

There are a lot of shit players, who say they are good. Its not worth taking a risk when there are so many too choose from. Obviously there are also a lot of high rio people who are shit, but you run into them a lot less frequently (atleast from my experience this expansion).

Then again, if you have a lot of other things too do, and that you get enjoyment out of, why even care about getting into 14s? Even with your limited aviable play time you will soon be at the rio where getting into them wont be that hard.

[chiddie]

Well then you should find some other people who are in a simular situation as yourself, and get some higher keys done.

There are a lot of shit players, who say they are good. Its not worth taking a risk when there are so many too choose from. Obviously there are also a lot of high rio people who are shit, but you run into them a lot less frequently (atleast from my experience this expansion).

Then again, if you have a lot of other things too do, and that you get enjoyment out of, why even care about getting into 14s? Even with your limited aviable play time you will soon be at the rio where getting into them wont be that hard.

r.io starts to be somehow useful in the 10+ bracket, people with a r.io between 20 and 900 have probably earned it without a boost because there’s no point in paying a boost in the 2-9 bracket.

But ppl with low spare time who like to dps have a really hard game if they wanna pug M+, I switched to tanking and then healing because I could not afford to waste 1 hour per session to form a group for my key or to be invited in someone else’s key.

[Greengrim]

Well then you should find some other people who are in a simular situation as yourself, and get some higher keys done.

There are a lot of shit players, who say they are good. Its not worth taking a risk when there are so many too choose from. Obviously there are also a lot of high rio people who are shit, but you run into them a lot less frequently (atleast from my experience this expansion).

Then again, if you have a lot of other things too do, and that you get enjoyment out of, why even care about getting into 14s? Even with your limited aviable play time you will soon be at the rio where getting into them wont be that hard.

I couldn't care less if I was doing +2s, +14s or +19s to be frank. I only play WoW for my friends and no other reason.

I said what I said because scrubs who farm +17 and have adopted an elitist mentality due to their 'exceptiona rio score', often get pummeled by my DK, and that buggs me a little.