28 bosses down and got 2 items which are useless...

[chiddie]

Try timing the keys and you'll have more loot chances.

They have been all timed but one.

But apart from gear, it’s the “nothing” reward that is disappointing.

Give me 500 gold. Or 500 Stygia. Or 500 ash. But I “need” something apart from 35 anima.

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BfAs chances for maxed Titanforge was around 400-500 dungeon runs per item in my own experience. If he keeps doing M+ timed or not for a few months, he will be fine even with bad luck. The sheer amount of loot will over time level out the bad luck streak.

Gearprogression is endless, it will get resets over time and in the end it is of course meaningless. Dont play gaming modes you dont enjoy.

There is no happy ending for people who dont like the grind in MMO's. You either get bad luck with drops and you quit because of the grind or you get lucky with drops and you quit because you dont even know what to do with the powerlevels at that point. Its sad and funny at the same time and its a never ending 16 year old ongoing thing - people choose a MMO genre and dont know that is just endless grind.

What you don’t understand is that we “simpleton” players don’t care about minmaxing or bis. In lower bracket EVERY drop that has an ilvl >5 of a piece you have actually equipped is an upgrade regardless secondary stats.

When I ran M+ in BfA, up to a certain point (+12/13) every 2/3 dungeons I got an upgrade. It was not a bis, it had often at least one wrong secondary stat, but overall it was an upgrade. Now I get nothing apart from the vault (hoping that the choice will be an upgrade too).

For the average joes (90% of player base) its a huge step behind.

[Ange]

Now I get nothing apart from the vault (hoping that the choice will be an upgrade too).

As I said, you did need around 500+ runs (the same instance at max ilvl - 15) just to get 1 maxed-tf upgrade. Thats all the dungeons you need to get propper r.io rating to be able to do every 15-key-of-your-farming-dungeon + another 500+ runs each season just to get 1 piece of gear.

=> In reality mosts people did not farm 500+ runs for each upgrade and got what ever the weekly chest gave them.

This is comming from someone who actually did 6000+ keys in BfA and even more in LEGION just for gear farming. Check my linked profile if you really wana see some horror numbers for amount of dungeons done in m+. Did I get the TF loot I was farming for 500+ runs each season? Nope, it was not even a happy end for some of the gear pieces I wanted. Thats the lottery.

The average min-max casual, who will do 1-2 weekly maxed keys, will just gear the same way as it was in BfA - with the weekly cache and over time, where it doesnt matter if you get 5x cloak back2back. I don't see how you can even consider SL's system bad. You have more choices that you can grind every week or you just do 1 thing and use the BfA system.

[TheRevenantHero]

Personally I'm all for less drops in raids. I can't think of a single thing that would turn more people off of raiding than never getting a drop.

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I disagree, this will drive away players in droves.

How will changing loot systems to be less focused on pvp drive people away in droves? The fact that pve players are being forced to do pvp for gear is absolute dogshit.

[chiddie]

As I said, you did need around 500+ runs (the same instance at max ilvl - 15) just to get 1 maxed-tf upgrade. Thats all the dungeons you need to get propper r.io rating to be able to do every 15-key-of-your-farming-dungeon + another 500+ runs each season just to get 1 piece of gear.

=> In reality mosts people did not farm 500+ runs for each upgrade and got what ever the weekly chest gave them.

This is comming from someone who actually did 6000+ keys in BfA and even more in LEGION just for gear farming. Check my linked profile if you really wana see some horror numbers for amount of dungeons done in m+. Did I get the TF loot I was farming for 500+ runs each season? Nope, it was not even a happy end for some of the gear pieces I wanted. Thats the lottery.

The average min-max casual, who will do 1-2 weekly maxed keys, will just gear the same way as it was in BfA - with the weekly cache and over time, where it doesnt matter if you get 5x cloak back2back. I don't see how you can even consider SL's system bad. You have more choices that you can grind every week or you just do 1 thing and use the BfA system.

As I said before, I’m a simple person. All that I see is that in BfA I did HALF the M+ per week I do now and I changed 2-3 pieces per week minimum until I reached level 12-13. Now I’m changing 1-2 pieces per week maximum even if I’m still doing 5-6 keys and in double number compared to BfA.

No matter the side I look at it, for me is not an upgrade for sure.

[MrDaemon]

1 weekly item is how the mythic+ chest worked for all of Legion and BFA so not sure why it’s suddenly a loot scarcity issue in SL despite getting to unlock more choices.

Because there is no titanforging. Its only reason why m+ gearing was possible. In my opinion it was their biggest mistake to remove it.

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well, then do 5 +15 keys. Then you're estimated to get one item at 210 and a choice of 2 223 in the vault.

Thats not what is the problem. vault is vault, it was there in previous expansion even if it was random. What I want is to have a possibility of upgrading item I got from m+. Or straight up buying specific piece. Something like residuum but not over period of 10-20 weeks. Something like one item per 3 weeks.

[czarek]

If PVP reward is about to farm honor/conq. PVE should work same. Farm some valor points and buy item u need? Yay i head that once a time. Tbh this system was pretty nice. Vault is ok and should stay but some valor system should exist here anyways. Or just tokens as loot in myth+/raids like weapon tokens are in CN right now.

[aimmachine]

i have no 28 kills, but i killed each boss that i need for 4-5 times on 2 chars, didn't loot a whole thing which i was looking for

[Aphrel]

The culprit is the great vault...

This new design of barely any loot dropping but having 9 choices to pick from once a week is blizzards way of ensuring that gearing takes time..
Look at m+.. a 15 drops 210 gear... Look at raids... bosses drop fuckall, gz on your anima... Look at arenas... no loot at all from games...

The majority of loot comes from weekly rewards.

Its just another gating system.

[Qnubi]

The culprit is the great vault...

This new design of barely any loot dropping but having 9 choices to pick from once a week is blizzards way of ensuring that gearing takes time..
Look at m+.. a 15 drops 210 gear... Look at raids... bosses drop fuckall, gz on your anima... Look at arenas... no loot at all from games...

The majority of loot comes from weekly rewards.

Its just another gating system.

They could achieve the same without being so obvious, instead of one big item upgrade each week you could earn badges (from dailies etc.) and then slowly upgrade your gear you get from doing content, even let it drop in masses because the real upgrades will be the badges. The result would be the same (slower progression) but it would feel better.

[Nephod]

I did 4 m+ 10-12 yesterday. Got 4 items. All 4 were boots, where I have my legendary. Good luck with items actually dropping, but terrible luck with the items being useless. My ilvl is just 203, so it would have been an upgrade in any other slot.

On topic: they should bump up the amount of drops, or atleast increas the ilvl we can pump pvp/covenant gear to by upgrading past 197. I know we can upgrade pvp gear through rated pvp, but I mainly do random BGs and can't upgrade past 197 with honor.

[Rinaul]

That's not blizzards implementation. They only persist because players continue to purchase it and what benefit does it give you if getting slightly ahead in pve? If you're buying this then you're probably trash anyway because the only folks it would benefit would be cutting edge players pushing WF and if that's the case they would be running that kind of system in house for free. So literally it's your own doing.

[Aphrel]

They could achieve the same without being so obvious, instead of one big item upgrade each week you could earn badges (from dailies etc.) and then slowly upgrade your gear you get from doing content, even let it drop in masses because the real upgrades will be the badges. The result would be the same (slower progression) but it would feel better.

Small improvement but not my much tbh. The best system imo will always be to have the loot drop from the monsters we slay.
Call me oldschool but i like looting a corpse and seeing the epic(s).

[Qnubi]

Small improvement but not my much tbh. The best system imo will always be to have the loot drop from the monsters we slay.
Call me oldschool but i like looting a corpse and seeing the epic(s).

I agree, I made a similar post a week ago or so:

"In my opinion the best loot for your character should always DROP from bosses in PvE. Not come from a weird magic box at the end of the week. I prefer the system where I defeat a challenging encounter and get a reward for it. The weekly box is so disconnected from the actual fight. I really dislike the concept overall. Even a Badge system is better because the end of dungeon boss gives you a reward that you can directly use. Not wait for a, again, box. The vault should be a safety net if you get unlucky, not be your primary source for the best loot, even heroic raiders get their best rewards not from a boss, but from a stupid box."

[Dizzyswiftz]

Sounds like your guild got 36 226 from the raid, making everyone stronger for more progression. Also increases trading opportunities for next week.

Prior to SL you just wouldn’t have gotten anything, not even a “lottery ticket”

But in BFA we -did- have a lottery ticket in the form of our weekly chest, I will agree the vault is better, but are they not the same?
I will also have to disagree on your second point, because in BFA (this counts as a prior expansion) I am more than certain, Id have received more than, 0 items or "nothing", for the posted amount of effort!

Thoughts?

[Difuid]

How Blizzard logic should be: "Hmmm... People seem to really like the PvP gearing system... and they don't seem to like too much RNG... let's make the raid and m+ gearing more like the PvP gearing!"

I have a hunch they know that all too well and avoided doing so intentionally as PvP gearing is too deterministic for their taste.

Anyway, it would be great to have the PvP Honor/Conquest/Combat Rating equivalents for PvE along with gear vendors and gear upgrades.

[Puri]

In the what 8? weeks we raid now I got 5 pieces loot (and that includes a duplicate) from which I did not need a single one.

It's just a big disappointment and I don't see the reason to raid if the loot is so restricted, the only reasonable update to get is from the m+ weekly vault. So instead of "drops matter" they even lost value.

Imagine they introduce tier sets with the next patch and keep those drop rates, even if you start to raid all difficulties again (yeah!) it would probably take months to get the set bonus (and then it probably means random pieces with higher itemlevel are better).

[Glorious Leader]

Small improvement but not my much tbh. The best system imo will always be to have the loot drop from the monsters we slay.
Call me oldschool but i like looting a corpse and seeing the epic(s).

Yea no and this call me old school crap is cute but what your suggesting is awful. The game became infinitely better when loot was made accessible outside of the raid and particularly through currency or more broadly determinism. Thats what the game needs. What we currently have is an attempt to recreate the "old school" albeit half assed. Really old school is even less loot, its 3 pieces dropping in a 40 man raid...

[Kaver]

I have a hunch they know that all too well and avoided doing so intentionally as PvP gearing is too deterministic for their taste.

Anyway, it would be great to have the PvP Honor/Conquest/Combat Rating equivalents for PvE along with gear vendors and gear upgrades.

The common argument against deterministic gear is pace of gearing. People argue that everyone will be in BiS gear after 3 weeks. But that’s not true at all. Blizzard can very simply define a cap that slows down gearing. Which is exactly what they did with PvP gearing. It’s simple. And Blizzard themselves have commented that they are very satisfied with the current PvP gear system.

[Argorwal]

But in BFA we -did- have a lottery ticket in the form of our weekly chest, I will agree the vault is better, but are they not the same?
I will also have to disagree on your second point, because in BFA (this counts as a prior expansion) I am more than certain, Id have received more than, 0 items or "nothing", for the posted amount of effort!

Thoughts?

It sounds like you’re blurring together mythic+ (which was always based on a high item level weekly item) with the raid (which never did) into the same weekly loot pool despite the loot tables and requirements to obtain being different.

It’s hard to say you would have for sure got the items, bad luck streaks happen in older expansions, but the thing for sure is you never would have gotten an item off the raids loot table in your weekly chest. The weekly chest was limited to mythic+ only, and now it isn’t.

I still think the weekly chest over rewards mythic+, but with them keeping end of dungeon rewards (spammable) low maybe it compensates by having weekly rewards high, with a con of no catchup system and a large loot pool.

I do think raids should drop 4 for 20 people (1 per 5) because it makes the 10-30 flex scaling so much simpler and logical.

[Dizzyswiftz]

but the thing for sure is you never would have gotten an item off the raids loot table in your weekly chest. The weekly chest was limited to mythic+ only, and now it isn’t.

oooooooh bad dizzy, you're correct!