Can we expect a classic version of every expansion at some point?

[Mosha]

Lol I proved I know exactly what they mean and you are trying to deflect again. You say you point out correlation but no causation, then contradict yourself AGAIN by saying causation straight after. Are you a politician? You'd do well as one.

You want me to find evidence to back up your claim? Legend.

Where did I try to show causation? Please link me where I specifically said that everyone left because it was too easy.

The only thing you quote me on saying was that “subs dropped after they made the game easier” this isn’t causation, this is correlation. I’m saying X happened then Y happened. Causation would be stating “everyone left because the game was too easy”, or X happened BECAUSE Y happened.

I feel really bad for you my dude I’m not even trolling right now, this is actually sad.

What’s even funnier about this whole argument, is that none of it even matters because the CEO himself told us the causation of the subs dropping which is directly the opposite of what the initial guy said anyway. So not only are you guys wrong on one subject, you’re wrong on both.

[Tsyplenk]

Where did I try to show causation? Please link me where I specifically said that everyone left because it was too easy.

The only thing you quote me on saying was that “subs dropped after they made the game easier” this isn’t causation, this is correlation. I’m saying X happened then Y happened. Causation would be stating “everyone left because the game was too easy”, or X happened BECAUSE Y happened.

I feel really bad for you my dude I’m not even trolling right now, this is actually sad.

What’s even funnier about this whole argument, is that none of it even matters because the CEO himself told us the causation of the subs dropping which is directly the opposite of what the initial guy said anyway. So not only are you guys wrong on one subject, you’re wrong on both.

Still waiting on these links of where the CEO backs up your claims.

[TJ]

Except this can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt considering the transcripts themselves show that the start of Q1 was still going strong and the CEO himself said the reason they dropped in Q1 was because people went through the content too quickly, once again making what you said completely foolish.

That doesn't translate to after February 8th, nor does it say when people left. It's a vague statement to apply in detail to this argument in all honesty. That's me done anyway, I think I've said enough in this thread.

[Mosha]

Still waiting on these links of where the CEO backs up your claims.

Oh no problem! See I thought maybe you would be a big boy and look this stuff up yourself but if you really need to be proven wrong like this (again) I most certainly will help you out.

2010 transcript

https://seekingalpha.com/article/251...all-transcript

Go to this transcript and hit Ctrl f sub

6/17 in your search for sub

As we have previously announced, World of Warcraft reached 12 million subscribers worldwide late last year and has grown from there, following the release of Cataclysm in December. That release was another record-breaker for Blizzard Entertainment. Worldwide sales, as of day one, topped 3.3 million units and one-month sales hit more than 4.7 million units. These sales numbers are reflection of the ongoing strength of World of Warcraft and our community, even as the game has passed the sixth year mark.

He states that the sub count in q4 went up to 12 million and has since “grown since there” and this earnings call was done in feb of 2011

7/16 in your search

We have seen a number of players come in to play World of Warcraft for the first time through December. And I can tell you that Cataclysm sales have continued strong into January.

States basically how sales were still going strong into Jan. This just sort of highlights again how the pre-nerf content was still doing well in terms of sales and subs for cata.




2011

https://seekingalpha.com/article/268...all-transcript

Again, search for sub

8/19 for your search

Yes, just how did the return to the prelaunch levels of subs, after Cataclysm, compare to your expectations? And do you have any color on how things have trended since that competitor came online in March?

Michael Morhaime

Okay. As our players have become more experienced playing World of Warcraft over the many years, they have become much better and much faster at consuming content. And so I think with Cataclysm, they were able to consume the content faster than with previous expansions. But that's why we're working on developing more content. We launched our first update last week and we have another update that's already in test. The response that we've gotten so far from players has been very positive and we really think that we need to be faster at delivering content to players. And so that's one of the reasons why we're looking to decrease the amount of time in between expansions.

10/19 for your search

Eric Handler - MKM Partners LLC

Are you seeing lower levels of churn relative to the prior 2 updates given you have more content with Cataclysm?



Michael Morhaime

Yes. So what we have seen so far is that people have been consuming this content very quickly and so the subscriber levels have decreased faster than in previous expansions.

Mike was asked how the sales went back to pre launch numbers when other expansions didn’t do this. (Prelaunch numbers means lower, I feel like I need to explain this to you)

He specifically states why the numbers went down.

- - - Updated - - -

That doesn't translate to after February 8th, nor does it say when people left. It's a vague statement to apply in detail to this argument in all honesty. That's me done anyway, I think I've said enough in this thread.

The CEO himself says when the people left in Q1 2011, and specifically states why they did, and you still come in here and say that this is a vague statement.

At least you are right about one thing, you have said enough in this thread.

[last1214]

I would replay up through pandaria, heck maybe even WoD because the raiding was so good. I definitely would never go back and play through classic again. I feel way too F-ed over by our riads weapon drop luck. (11 barron bindings, 0 Garr bindings, 8 months until the first CTS dropped, never saw a maladath or AQR drop, so far no noteable Naxx wepons.)

[Tsyplenk]

Waffle

So that's your big reveal? Some more data open to interpretation? All of the stuff you are hinging everything on is still ambiguous. Into January could be the first week, then you have people that played at the start of December (release) already having a month headstart on these people, they could have quit and then the new players still kept sub number strong. Not sure how I still have to explain this to you when you think it helps your claim. He says SALES were doing well into Jan, not subs. There could've been a gradual tank/loss at the start of Jan or any time before/after.

You really are trying to fit words in people's mouths to fit your narrative. What you have directly said is not proven from the links. Convince yourself it does all you want and I'm sure you can go to bed happy

[Mosha]

So that's your big reveal? Some more data open to interpretation? All of the stuff you are hinging everything on is still ambiguous. Into January could be the first week, then you have people that played at the start of December (release) already having a month headstart on these people, they could have quit and then the new players still kept sub number strong. Not sure how I still have to explain this to you when you think it helps your claim. He says SALES were doing well into Jan, not subs. There could've been a gradual tank/loss at the start of Jan or any time before/after.

You really are trying to fit words in people's mouths to fit your narrative. What you have directly said is not proven from the links. Convince yourself it does all you want and I'm sure you can go to bed happy

Wow so you’re not just the plain ole stupid, you’re the kind of stupid that sticks to what they think even after being literally proven wrong. Do you also believe in flat earth? You an anti-Vaxer?

[LordVargK]

I think it ends with wrath. Not only does that wrap it up nicely as a "the warcraft 3 trilogy" of wow releases but that transitions into the cata revamp with everything after that still in the live game. I think the classic period gets its last hurrah with Arthas. Without Covid messing with schedules i wouldn't be that surprised if they would have years back wanted the end of shadowlands and the start of wrath classic to happen at the same time for a thematic full circle moment.

Honestly, Cata could have the potential to be a better game if everyone had to start at level 1 and leveling 1-85 would take about as long as classic 1-60. Besides a recycled last raid Cata's greatest weakness was the amount of effort revamping the world took Many players did not experience this effort, since they only played the new 80-85 zones. I imagine starting from level 1 in cata could be a whole new experience than it was 10 years ago.

[Kolvarg]

Realistically, it's all but confirmed we will have TBC probably later this year, and pretty much a given that WotLK Classic will follow in 2 years, as long as TBC Classic performs well.

Whether it continues after that, no one knows. I would guess it would largely depend on how Classic continues to perform in the next years, whether their data suggests there would be enough interest or not, and how having these multiple versions of the game impact their QA and bugfixing.

It might be silly to think of "Cata Classic", or "MoP Classic", but following the current bi-yearly rate, we'd only have Cata Classic by 2025, and MoP Classic by 2027. 15 years after each the original's release, just like Vanilla Classic. I for one would love to eventually get to either of those. I played very little of Cata while current, and only joined MoP by the latest patch, so would love to experience all those raids while current. And even for WoD, which I played from start to end, I wouldn't mind at all raiding through again, those were some excelent raids, despite all the flaws, and class design was very good in MoP and Cata.

More importantly, it might come down to whether the release of Classic TBC, and eventually WotLK, affect expansion sales. If the data indicates that adding more versions does not significantly decrease xpac sales, meanwhile increasing MAUs, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility that they at least test the waters with Cata. But at this point they probably don't even know for sure whether they'll go forward with WotLK, let alone any further. We can only wait and see.

How can you have classic versions of anything past Wrath? The draw of classic is to be able to play the way it was before the Cata revamp, to experience the game as it was originally released and designed. There hasn't been a revamp of Cata proportions since Cata - so that IS the classic version.

By that definition, you also can't really have Classic versions of TBC or Wrath, since TBC and Wrath zones haven't really been revamped for the most part.

There hasn't been any world revamp that drastically changed existing zones. But the experience of playing Cata content now is not comparable in any way to playing it while it was current.

Ultimately, you can still play the vast majority of the content of any WoW expansion. The crucial detail is while you can see that content, you can't recreate the experience of playing it while it was current content - from the very different state of different classes and specializations, to classes and races that didn't even exist then, to different balance, game systems, etc. Hell, after the level squish recently introduced, this has never been more true! Any expansion (yes, even WoD, and even BfA) is eligible for a "Classic" version eventually, if there is enough interest in replaying that content as intended.

[Tsyplenk]

Wow so you’re not just the plain ole stupid, you’re the kind of stupid that sticks to what they think even after being literally proven wrong. Do you also believe in flat earth? You an anti-Vaxer?

Damn dude, I can appreciate the dedication to try and fit your ambiguous "evidence" to your narrative, but saying the same thing over and over doesn't make it fact. I will really struggle to sleep tonight after being "proven wrong" so bad XD.

[Mosha]

Damn dude, I can appreciate the dedication to try and fit your ambiguous "evidence" to your narrative, but saying the same thing over and over doesn't make it fact. I will really struggle to sleep tonight after being "proven wrong" so bad XD.

I’m sure you won’t because I bet you don’t even know you were proven wrong because you don’t even know how to interpret a statement from the CEO of blizzard at the time specifically proving all of you wrong, let alone the data lol.

[arkanon]

Honestly, Cata could have the potential to be a better game if everyone had to start at level 1 and leveling 1-85 would take about as long as classic 1-60. Besides a recycled last raid Cata's greatest weakness was the amount of effort revamping the world took Many players did not experience this effort, since they only played the new 80-85 zones. I imagine starting from level 1 in cata could be a whole new experience than it was 10 years ago.

I cant imagine anything worse than starting an expansion back at level 1, except maybe starting and level 1 and the leveling experience taking as long as 1-60 in classic. Hard no, Diamond hard no.

[LordVargK]

I cant imagine anything worse than starting an expansion back at level 1, except maybe starting and level 1 and the leveling experience taking as long as 1-60 in classic. Hard no, Diamond hard no.

If I were to rerelease Cata it would be quite the same as classic is now, without outland, without Northend but with revamped old World zones and the 5 new ones. Cata is not really an expansion in my book, but the first rerelease WoW got.

[Delano]

Furthest I see it going is WOTLK, and they might not even make it that far.

[Dug]

I think wrath will be the cut off what with is being the last of the old world before the cata revamp.

[Rageadon]

You didnt like what is commonly considered the "best" expansion? I mean to each their own and all that, im just surprised. What didnt you like about mop compared to say....wrath?

Its considered the "best" by the people who likes everything blizzard puts out, its the same people who disagree that shadowlands is BFA 2.0
what i didnt like with mop? a lot of the models in pandaland felt childish and out of place, the story was bleak, and the zones was very boring, you have just been stopping threats to the world and then you need to be a therapist to some bears which is based on an april fools joke

[Nak88]

Furthest I see it going is WOTLK, and they might not even make it that far.

LMAO, imagine thinking Blizzard won't release the most popular version of WoW ever

[anon5123]

I highly doubt we'll see "classic" of anything past WOTLK. Cata is the tipping point where the game became "new WoW", not just in the revamping of how the game plays, but in the massive changes to the old world zones.