This loot system has to go.

[Darsithis]

It seems to have frustrated people more but, at the same time, I like that every single raid night, we have more gear to pass around to other raiders rather than to be sharded.

[Recovery]

previous raids are useless once a new raid comes out. Proffessions that craft gear is also rather useless fairly quickly.

This wasnt the case in the past though.

You almost HAD to do the previous raids in order to be viable in the new raid in every expansion that proceeded MOP.

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Youd run dungeons to run raids but you never went back to dungeons. I think most raiders willremember this

Obviously. If you started a new character, though, you started in dungeons... Unless your guild was willing to carry you and funnel loot to you. You really dont take the time to comprehend the things you read before forming a retort do you? This seems to be a trend with you.

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Well, yes. Casuals generally don't invest a lot of time in a game. That's kinda part of the definition. What you're talking about is not casuals, nor is it Blizzard's main audience.

Casual isnt a measure of time spent in game to alot of people. It is a measure of the content thats done.

Pet battlers, questers, collectors, etc spend more hours in game than some 1% guild members do.

[Makabreska]

I mean, I am steadily gearing up. Vault always has an upgrade for me and I get at least 1 item from raids, but I can perfectly understand general frustration. Ion mentioned some kind of a badge system in the future.

previous raids are useless once a new raid comes out. Proffessions that craft gear is also rather useless fairly quickly.

Font and Razorcoral say hello. All is needed is one OP trinket from said tier to make people do old content. No WF required. Also we got promised tier sets making a comeback, so that's another thing to potentially keep from previous tiers (unless ofc they will bring them back for the final tier only).

[Dire]

sigh..... u can get a full set of 197 just by doing the story

[Doffen]

I mean, I am steadily gearing up. Vault always has an upgrade for me and I get at least 1 item from raids, but I can perfectly understand general frustration. Ion mentioned some kind of a badge system in the future.



Font and Razorcoral say hello. All is needed is one OP trinket from said tier to make people do old content. No WF required. Also we got promised tier sets making a comeback, so that's another thing to potentially keep from previous tiers (unless ofc they will bring them back for the final tier only).

I have been wondering. Where did Ion say they were implementing badge system? Couple of guildies said he did, but from the one interview recently, it was a comment from the interviewer, not Ion himself.

Can you show me where Ion said it? I am just curious because I cant find it.

On another topic:

Bring back tier/class set!

[Traveler Voltin]

sigh..... u can get a full set of 197 just by doing the story

what about rings, trinkets, and weapons?

[ellieg]

what about rings, trinkets, and weapons?

About 2-3 hours this week in pvp will get 197 versions of those

[MatthewOU2015]

The only people that like this gearing system are carries that get spoonfed gear by friends

[Elias01]

This system won't stay. Its one of the most hated things they have done in any wow expansion. People are leaving in droves and blizzard has already acknowledged its fucked. Just wait for next tier and shit should be fixed

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the fact a pve player needs to do pvp to get gear is just proving that this shit aint working

Yes people are leaving. But no becouse of loot.

[huth]

Casual isnt a measure of time spent in game to alot of people. It is a measure of the content thats done.

Pet battlers, questers, collectors, etc spend more hours in game than some 1% guild members do.

Wrong. Casual is primarly to do with time investment, not with the content they focus on. The latter mostly comes from some content being more feasible for their time commitment than other. Raids are typically not a viable option for a casual due to this. A hardcore pet battler is not a casual player anymore than a hardcore quester, collector or raider.

[clevin]

I dont disagree that it slows down, but why do the upgrades need to be significant? Why is a gradual, incremental increase in ilvl not acceptable anymore?

It's fine for me. But it feels odd.. you can race from wherever you are when you ding to where I am or so really quickly... and then... snails pace. You get 40-50 item levels REALLY easily and then have to do a lot of work and at a fairly high level, to get another 10, so I get the perspective of people who feel that upgrades are hard to get because of that contrast.

Also, you don't get to an item level in the 190s and then slowly gearup in M2, M4, M6 etc. because there are not significant upgrades in item level until M10 or higher or heroic Nathria. I think they should have either capped the covenant gear a bit lower (184 or 187?) or reduced the number of items you can get from it while leaving it at 197. Right now, it plus a few PVP pieces completely invalidates the need for me to do LFR, Normal Nathria or any M+ much below 10s in terms of getting gear.

If I were beta testing this and talking to the team I'd say they should do this:

1) Drop the number of covenant pieces to about 5. Leave them at 197.
2) Squish M+ levels so the current M15 difficulty becomes M10 and adjust the rewards so that you don't have severel levels where the drops at the end are all basically 200.

Right now end of dungeon loot doesn't get above 200 until M10 and isn't 207 until M12. Think about that. I need to do an M12 to significantly upgrade the gear I get from the covenant campaign. The Vault loot isn't as bad (it hits 210 at M5) bit that's a crapshoot as to slot.

Basically, there are swaths of difficulties where the end loot doesnt move up (M4 is 194, M6 is 197 and then you move from M6 at 197 to M11 at 203). Thats too many difficulties for very little item level change. Combined with the drop count decreasing from from 3 to 2 if you time it and... eh.

[Elias01]

Wrong. Casual is primarly to do with time investment, not with the content they focus on. The latter mostly comes from some content being more feasible for their time commitment than other. Raids are typically not a viable option for a casual due to this. A hardcore pet battler is not a casual player anymore than a hardcore quester, collector or raider.

Oh so player what spents 2-3 hours day and have finished mythic raiding is casual but player what spents 5 hours a day farming mogs is hardcore player? Ok boomer.

[clevin]

Well, i'd argue that at 195, you're pretty much overgeared for world content already, so it not providing much more than that isn't exactly an issue. We're still missing a final WQ upgrade as well, which should put the caps at 194 for regular world quests and 207 for epic calling reward boxes.

I'm not arguing that world content should be higher than 19x but that at 195 I have zero need for more gear in order to do it. That's fine, by the way. Of course, for people who want to mostly solo, that also means there's no PVE content to do, but eh, that's a choice. I can usually drum up an M+ or go PVP, so it doesnt matter to me. But it does mean that gear as a reward is pretty much gone for me.

[ellieg]

The only people that like this gearing system are carries that get spoonfed gear by friends

I dont get carries and my friends don't play but I like the loot system

[ro9ue]

There's no doubt it's unfair to see an LFR player hit a max ilevel TF off a boss when you're a mythic raider and get a lesser ilevel item. However it was rare. How many casual players had crazy TF in every slot? Not many. If I were to pull a random # out of my ass based on anecdotal info I'd say the average casual player had maybe 3 slots where they had a TF item outside the ilevel range of content they would normally be able to do.

What I'm finding right now is a similar feeling to WoD. After you did Heroic Dungeons and LFR, you basically hit the ilevel cap and you're essentially seeing no reason to do static PVE content over and over. This is where 'Raid or Die' came from. Right now it's a similar feeling. You queue for a heroic dungeon for example, you can look at the boss lists, and if you already have 171s in the slots that drop and your powers/conduits... you might as well just leave the dungeon and not waste 30min. There's no chance for a Legiondary, and no chance for a TF drop.

It was a small chance to get an upgrade in casual, queueable content. And I mean a small chance. But now it's 0%. I think Legion was actually the best system for the average player in that you could do all kinds of content and potentially get an upgrade. I would only modify the legendary system so that you get a token which you can trade in for any item of your choice off the Dalaran vendor.

I dunno, I get the McNugget titanforging argument, but there's also less of a reason to do lower tier content. And if you lack the ability to run with a schedule with other players, character progression halts very quickly. Potentially a Valor Point system could solve this if TF is bad, where you can slowly accumulate points from doing the heroics and LFR wings and work towards a raid level set, but it would take you much longer than someone who raids every week.

IDK thoughts?

[TyrianFC]

Titanforging was fine. The people that disliked it most were just really loud whingers who kicked and screamed to make sure everyone knew their opinion. Plenty of people liked or loved it, too.

Having everything be a points-aquired system would be terrible. The game needs randomness, whether people realise it or not. Not everything should be a scripted gain determined by when you accumulate X points in Y weeks.

[Recovery]

Wrong. Casual is primarly to do with time investment, not with the content they focus on. The latter mostly comes from some content being more feasible for their time commitment than other. Raids are typically not a viable option for a casual due to this. A hardcore pet battler is not a casual player anymore than a hardcore quester, collector or raider.

Oh so player what spents 2-3 hours day and have finished mythic raiding is casual but player what spents 5 hours a day farming mogs is hardcore player? Ok boomer.

@huth - Yeah as i said, your opinion and definition are outdated. I dont think the community as a whole views it as a time investment anymore. Almost anyone I talk to confirms that casual is viewed as the type of content.

I wouldnt call a mythic progression raider that only needs 6 hours of playtime a week a casual. I dont think anyone would.
I wouldnt call an avid transmog farmer that plays for 10 hours a day every day a hardcore wow player. lol



IE - "Yeah guys, I play alot, but I cant commit to a raid schedule.So, i just CASUALLY pvp in random battleground and CASUALLY pug a key every now and then. Ugh, i'm a filthy casual now."

[ro9ue]

Titanforging was fine. The people that disliked it most were just really loud whingers who kicked and screamed to make sure everyone knew their opinion. Plenty of people liked or loved it, too.

Having everything be a points-aquired system would be terrible. The game needs randomness, whether people realise it or not. Not everything should be a scripted gain determined by when you accumulate X points in Y weeks.

I was giving the valor point stuff as an alternative to TF if they don't want it back at all, but I've always thought the best of both worlds would be a valor point system where you can upgrade you gear to the highest ilevel. Doing harder content would give you a higher baseline piece. TF would work within the bounds of those upgrade tiers. Example:

LFR boots drop: 100 ilevel. 0/10 valor point upgrades
Normal boots drop: 115 ilevel 3/10 valor point upgrades
Heroic: 130 6/10
Mythic: 145 9/10

A Titanforging drop can proc to get you +X upgrades up to cap. A casual player can slowly fill out all their gear over hte course of months. Raiders should be able to cap out quickly in just a few weeks. Mythic raiders should be able to max out as soon as they get their item drops with pooled VP.

[Onikaroshi]

Warforging wasn't bad (6 ilvl bonus during MoP and WoD) Titanforging was awful.

That said, the current loot system of "do content to get loot next week" isn't good either.

[Santti]

It was fine, but people couldn't stand the idea of not getting perfectly rolled items in every slot. Of course, getting something like that was nigh impossible, but they kept grinding for them anyway, and burning out. Thus, WF/TF was bad.