Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA
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your first part i have another opinion, but you have definetely some points there. definetely a good point is all the new combat animations. they wre definetely cost immensive.
what i also will NEVER understand is the following: wow is a game that is 15 years old and way more rely on long term customers and old school players (that play the same game for 10+ years) than maybe any other game on the market. why in the hell you change stuff so drastically when a big amount of your customers commited themselfes specifically to that things 10 years ago ??? its the easiest way to loose loyal customers. in modern products or modern games this is irelevant, because every day another 15 year old kid is born (15 years ago) and is a potential customer. but wow ? a 15 year old game ? even as product manager or project leader i would NEVER do this. dont get Blizzards reasons here.
but the borrowed power systems part i wanna comment. exactly borrowed power systems are one of the most cost effective development stuff (besides streamlining classes and recycling content/gfx). its horrible easy and cheap. why? because you only have to design a UI. no combat interaction. no changes in game engine. and EVERYTHING else is just DB entries and a few lines of code. believe me: azerite gear, UI and essences are BRUTALLY cheap in comparisson to „content“.
thats the reason why since Legion you have a trizillion quests, a order hall or covenants to back this up and a lot of borrowed power systems. its cheap as shit. a dedicated area to design, with no mobs, no interactions and nothing new (heck, when you look at order halls they even reused old sprites) and just a few npcs. and some UI simply changing your DB values, used before putting dmg/heal/tank values into the flowing game engine. all this stuff is completely scalable, maintainable and horrible cheap to produce and to balance and maintain.
there is no big conspiracy theory out there. wow is simply a 15 year old game in „milk the cow“ mode. and since its still a succesful game and good profitmaker they simply go the cost effective route. thats all. but most ppl/players do not understand this. when working in the same business (i do) for 20+ years, its easy to understand whats going on.
but thats just me and my opinion. there is always a good chance i am wrong here.
Last edited by Niwes; 2021-01-29 at 12:09 AM.
This is your brain on spreadsheets[/QUOTE]
Hey who am i to judge if you feel like you have a choice between do i keep it up yes yes and yes you do you
In the current game, if your specs weakness is too big you just get excluded, it's already difficult pugging mythic+ as an assassination rogue, i don't understand your view atall, writing off glaring spec issues as "them he ropes" is stupid.
The problem was made worse this expansion by giving classes some godlike covenant abilities while others got scraps, sepsis is a mediocre single target ability that does less damage to 1 target than a hunters wild hunt does, despite wild hunt being an aoe skill.
"You're free to disagree and say that short term performance is more important to you than the long term integrity of class design"
I don't understand how making damage output closer between the top specs and bottom specs changes class design, we are already at a point where numbers in PvE can be tuned without affecting PvP, though honestly it's time assassination got some class design changes, having to get rupture and garrote on 3+ targets while maintaining SnD is such a chore for so little return.
Oh and i'm a pure PvE player and don't care too much how assassination performs in PvP, i get that pvp has a lot more variables in play than pure numbers.
They threw us a few bones.
My rogue is Assassin Venthyr so these are both positives for me:
Assassination
Cut to the Chase (New) Envenom extends the duration of Slice and Dice by up to 3 sec per combo point spent. Rogue - Assassination Spec. Rogue - Assassination Spec.Sounds like a much bigger attack. Without the annoying 2nd half of reactivation.Flagellation
Lash the target for (50% of Attack power) Shadow damage, causing each combo point spent within 12 sec to lash for an additional (10% of Attack power). Dealing damage with Flagellation increases your Haste by 1%, persisting 12 sec after their torment fades.
Flat out they did the same thing:
SND > Envenom Refreshes > then they made it passive.
Needs to be passive again for Assassin.
Still would prefer some leech aspect of flagellation.
@Shoe
So if they added a pvp talent for sub called, "Back In My Day" that when talented reduced MFD cd to 20 sec but it only generates 2 combo points (old premed) and gives you access to gouge and expose armor finisher then rogues would be perfect and the height of big brain thinking skill again? Oh the talent also changes Shadowstrike's name and icon to Ambush.
Or is it the usual example of I want, old premed, and MFD and gouge and subterfuge with garrote silence and cheapshots for days so I can be crazy OP and have all the dmg? I've played rogue since vanilla and I'd say they take decent amount of skill now. The only problem is they aren't crazy OP so they aren't the obvious PvP class anymore that's on virtually every team. They still take proper planning and positioning. But I think you just like to stroke your ego saying you were better than everyone else because you were a big brain 3d chess player that mind fucked every single one of your opponents.
Oh look Cut to the Chase was immediately returned, shocking.
It's almost like the spec was not designed to work with SnD, it's almost like anyone who opposed this change was just an OLD GUD NU BAD! MAH NILLLA! nostalgia stan instead of actually thinking about game and spec design and flow.
Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?
SnD has good interactions though with Assa - one the increased poison applications which are a good chunk of the total damage. I don't like the idea of having it passive - better at that point to just remove it and balance damage around not having it, plus giving more buttons to press.
Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.
Same here. I liked BFA much more because we didn't have SnD back then. We could get Hemorrhage and maybe a Exanguinate could be much better?
But to be honest I really like slow-paced specs. I mean we've got already high APM specs... no need to have more.
Kinda happy with the SND change and I don't think Assa needs more damage buttons either. For those who want different rotations they could give Exsanguinate a tiny bump. In general though I don't feel adding damage buttons that don't have some new utility is a good idea since it just weakens the existing ones. Rogue damage to me feels good when energy regen isn't too fast and when spending it does noticeable damage.
problem is SnD is never a really fun button to press...you push the button your numbers go up and you get a pat on the back for being a good rogue. I mean if your obsessed with parsing and as long as your dps bar goes a little higher your fine more power to you...but otherwise its a button that most players wont notice a difference with
So by 9.2 Cut to the chase and SnD will be gone again from Assa spec? Great job at unpruning Blizz.
Eh, i fully agree with the impactfulness that SnD mechanic has - or better, hasn't. But Assassination is in dire need of more buttons to press, i'm fine with a more relaxed way of deal with SnD but i don't want to see it go away as a button and also hope they add something more. For example, Crimson Tempest should be baseline and also Poison Bomb should be a short baseline CD. This way they could put actually interesting talents in the last row (the FoK one is good - meaning it's a nice mechanic to have, not that it competes with Bomb)
Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.
The problem with SnD's interaction is it's entirely passive, you will always AA it's entirely uncontrollable, SnD becomes the new baseline.
Building on your later comment I entirely agree SnD should go and muti should get more or at the very least new damaging buttons. PB just needs to go/be reworked, it has the same problem as SnD will have now in that you can't manipulate it because you will always be spamming envenom (on bosses), the fact it's a ST up in an AoE row is just criminal design (what is muti's 'capstone' row aoe anyway?)
The problem with Muti right now (and some other specs) is blizzard tried to bamboozle the player base with the idea 'unpruning' would lead to better gameplay or meaningful gameplay change when it's pretty obvious (especially with muti and SnD) it was just the low effort road for nostalgia box sales (which is why it flammed out spectacularly).
Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?
I don't read that level of malice in the unpruning of classes, but most of it has been basically reactivating old skills without actually checking the impact on rotations and possible synergies with a spec mechanics.
SnD as a baseline rogue maintenance buff is fine, just as Rutpture. Assassination just hasn't a lot going with it but can be used as a platform to build around. As i said above, there are some skills already in game that can cover the needs of Assa. When a talent is just the only option you have in a row, then it should just be baseline and the talent needs to be replaced (not only for Assa or rogues in general).
I'd play the shit out of Assa if it was viable in raids. It's easier to play for sure, but also for this more consistent and i can focus more on execution. I'm more than fine with Outlaw and its current status in M+ and i plan to play it the whole xpack (until something broken appears).
Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.